Mr. Girl's critic of Dr. K. Thoughts?

[Preety_India]

I don't think his medical license would be revoked. But I imagine some form of disciplinary action. At least this will serve as a good lesson for him. 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Max_V said:

@Leo Gura At one point during a moment where Reckful was sliding down further and further into depression, Dr.K announced to him that he was going to love him for two years, because he heard that this allegedly has the potential to cure someone's BPD. Reckful was overflowing with happiness and joy because most people had always abandoned him up to that point. Then the next session Dr.K took it back because he thought it over and in restrospect found he could fulfill that promise.

Yeah, I saw that part. But I though Dr K did a very professional and wise thing to carefully take back his over-promise.

Again, it's not like therapists can't make mistakes. Dr K made a mistake in the moment out of empathy and then later reflected on the impracticality of his promise and explained to Reckful what happened. This is the proper way to handle such a mistake.

Quote

For someone that is deeply fragile psychologically, in a state of being able to end it all any day, to be so unclear about being someone's friend or doctor, if you're going to be there or not, it's very irresponsible.

But you have to consider the alternative: Reckless sitting at home alone without anyone at all to talk to.

17 minutes ago, Yarco said:

Doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists are held to a much higher standard of ethics than almost any other profession.

His liscence prohibits him from doing stuff like taking clients out for dinner, being their friend, offering to go on a trip with them. It also prohibits him from bartering for his services or doing pro bono work for people who can afford to pay for it.

You aren't allowed to be a therapist for your wife or friend. There needs to be a very clean line and distinction drawn between doctor/patient and any other type of relationship.

Which is why he keeps saying "This is not therapy".

Dr K is doing coaching. And there is no licensing for coaching.

I don't understand why Dr K doesn't just call it online life coaching.

[Max_V]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But you have to consider the alternative: Reckless sitting at home alone without anyone at all to talk to.

I would argue that would have been better, yes. To open someone's wounds without setting a long-term plan for healing them, that is not good. If they just talked as friends, fine. But it wasn't like that.

Also, for someone that has BPD to not know what to expect, if someone will be there for you or not, if someone is your therapist or not, all this is not healthy, and makes for a mess. 

[Yarco]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Which is why he keeps saying "This is not therapy".

Maybe he's gotten better about it in recent months, I haven't watched any recent interviews. But for over a year it was very much a "Sure, this isn't therapy *wink wink nudge nudge*" thing with his guests.

Until the day he died, Reckful legitimately didn't know if Dr K was his doctor, coach, or friend.

Saying "this is not therapy" and then proceeding to do therapy isn't any different than the people who write "No copyright infringement intended" in their Youtube video description when they rip and re-upload videos . If it quacks like a duck...

[Max_V]

@Yarco Exactly

[Juan]

“This is not therapy”

A few seconds/minutes of google search:

 

 

I think Dr. K can be more honest with himself if he is doing either therapy, coaching, you name it. I have not doubt he is helping alot of people, but lying to yourself that you are not doing therapy, I don’t know if I buy that. Also as someone said in one of his stream he was working with: “I would never open up to on camera the same way to a private session. People change when they put a camera on their face...” something between those lines and I agree, some people do.

Sure, this gonna inspire and help other people in need for advice but, I’d be freaking out if thousands or millions of people now know my personal problems on details (and I don’t mind if eventually I have to do it but I can imagine how hard it could be), this is gonna help alot of people but now I need to be prepare for people for weaponize your problems/situations during my healing process, also some people will try to “act cool” or “be nice” when you have a audience looking at you. We do our best really, I can see Leo’s point but also the people’s who are pointing out the problem.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Juan

[Bando]

1 hour ago, Yarco said:

Doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists are held to a much higher standard of ethics than almost any other profession.

His liscence prohibits him from doing stuff like taking clients out for dinner, being their friend, offering to go on a trip with them. It also prohibits him from bartering for his services or doing pro bono work for people who can afford to pay for it.

You aren't allowed to be a therapist for your wife or friend. There needs to be a very clean line and distinction drawn between doctor/patient and any other type of relationship.

 

OK that makes sense but what do you think Dr.K could do to avoid this moving forward? I don't see a problem with someone sharing their life experiences and then someone else making suggestions or helping them understand a new perspective. If anything that alone could help someone reach professional help. Does his medical license prevent him from doing this kind of "coaching work?"

1 hour ago, Yarco said:

MrGirl's position is that it's not about net good. Most serial killers do net good over the course of their lives.

This is false equivalency, comparing someone who helped 100,000's of thousands through interviews and talking about mental health to someone who kills people doesn't make sense. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Max_V said:

I would argue that would have been better, yes. To open someone's wounds without setting a long-term plan for healing them, that is not good. If they just talked as friends, fine. But it wasn't like that.

Also, for someone that has BPD to not know what to expect, if someone will be there for you or not, if someone is your therapist or not, all this is not healthy, and makes for a mess. 

You could make that case. Maybe there's some merit to it. But I wouldn't overblow it. It's being framed as though Dr K killed the guy. What I see is that Dr K was doing his best to help him, and he had a few slip-ups. This is not a good reason to trash him.

You guys understand that in real therapy clients can kill themselves too? It's not like the therapist is some kind of savoir. Most people who go to therapists don't improve. In fact I would bet that most therapists are mediocre and harm their clients by over-prescribing drugs. Just because it's legal and "ethical" doesn't mean it helps people truly grow and heal, or avoid suicide.

The difference here is that when a client kills himself within private therapy, no one knows about it so there cannot be any outrage. But when it's all live-streamed, it's ripe for a Twitter outrage mob, lead by Mr Girl.

[Bando]

Just checked out his channel it looks like he made a response video to the buzz going around and does a good job addressing the main points being brought against him. 

To be fair I am biased in this discussion as I personally benefited from Dr.K's videos and his Mental Health course especially so maybe i'm being blind to certain things but I trust his character and intentions I cannot say the same with Mr.Girl based of what ive seen of him.

[Scholar]

Another discussion, with Destiny, MrGirl and Dr Avi:

 

 

[DocWatts]

19 minutes ago, Bando said:

Just checked out his channel it looks like he made a response video to the buzz going around and does a good job addressing the main points being brought against him. 

To be fair I am biased in this discussion as I personally benefited from Dr.K's videos and his Mental Health course especially so maybe i'm being blind to certain things but I trust his character and intentions I cannot say the same with Mr.Girl based of what ive seen of him.

I feel the same way.

Everything I've seen of Dr.K's work gives me a high degree of confidence that he's acting from genuine intentions.

For Mr. Girl, the difference between authentic, provocative self expression and Trolling is hazy line that can be hard to discern. At the very least, it seems to me that he's lacking emotional maturity in some areas, regardless of the fact that behind his abrasiveness can be salient points.

Edited February 21, 2022 by DocWatts

[Kshantivadin]

Healthy Gamer is the best thing to happen to Twitch. Amazing example of what a strong vision and LP can do.

Not therapy. Doesn't quack like a duck. He is a streamer.

 

 

[mmKay]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What I see is that Dr K was doing his best to help him, and he had a few slip-ups. This is not a good reason to trash him.

I watched all of his "therapy sessions" with Reckful at the time. Most of the talk was okay besides one big slip:

Reckful was openminded, and intuitively was microdosing truffles for some time saying it helped him get out of his mind ( he was slightly autistic and extremely logical ,he could do absolutely impressive math problems in his head in instants ).

He shared this with DR.k and basically he anwsered him that he's using  them as a crutch and he should stop. 

I don't want to frame anything as anything but I really belived for some time it was one of the major things that broke him at that particular moment.

 

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, mmKay said:

I don't want to frame anything as anything but I really belived for some time it was one of the major things that broke him at that particular moment.

Yeah but that's not a good enough reason to kill oneself.

You don't need Dr K to tell you to restart your mushrooms if you are feeling like shit without them. This isn't rocket science. People don't just kill themselves on a whim or because someone said one wrong thing.

You know how much bad advice I've gotten from doctors? You don't see me killing myself over it. A licensed doctor can give you really shitty advice. So what? You gotta use your head. No license or ethics board will save you from bad advice.

[mmKay]

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah but that's not a good enough reason to kill oneself.

You don't need Dr K to tell you to restart your mushrooms if you are feeling like shit without them. 

True but it just happens that Reckful specifically told him that he values his opinion a lot on the topic and he takes him as an authority on the subject because he didn't know if he was doing smth valid and healthy for him or he was being a drug addict, so im just saying that it felt as dr. K accidentally kicked his crutch. 

 

 

I really think there couldn't be a better fit for the gaming community. This guy effin nailed his nieche. 

[Carl-Richard]

@Scholar Good conversation. Dan joking about Destiny and Ana made my day 

[Max_V]

@Carl-Richard I love Dan, lol

[Max_V]

@Leo Gura Yes,I see your point. Some people take it too far by saying that Dr.K was the actual reason Reckful died. I’m more on the side of: Dr.k could’ve done a much better job providing the help Reckful needed. Like setting a boundary and helping him get long-term help. Also, breaking ethical guidelines sure didn’t help.

I miss Reckful a lot. 

[Scholar]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah but that's not a good enough reason to kill oneself.

You don't need Dr K to tell you to restart your mushrooms if you are feeling like shit without them. This isn't rocket science. People don't just kill themselves on a whim or because someone said one wrong thing.

You know how much bad advice I've gotten from doctors? You don't see me killing myself over it. A licensed doctor can give you really shitty advice. So what? You gotta use your head. No license or ethics board will save you from bad advice.

That's the Self-help mentality that I do not like, when someone is suicidal, clearly they are not thinking in terms of "good reason". With that logic, any doctor giving bad advice can just say "Well my patient shouldn't have been so stupid and listen to me lol, what does he expect?".

The entire issue is that people cannot use their head, and when they do they end up being conspiracy theorists most of the time. They didn't spend their entire life studying philosophy like you did Leo.

 

From what I heard what in the end caused Reckful to jump was that he thought he would get institutionalized again when a friend or something knocked on his door, thinking it was mental health workers, as he made threats to kill himself the days before that. Clearly such an individual is not rational and cannot be held responsible for his actions.

Sometimes you do remind me of people like Tony Robbins with your logic and attitudes.

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Scholar

[CultivateLove]

You have to be a special kind of stupid to take Mr. Girl seriously.