Corona booster shot negative experience.

[undeather]

3 minutes ago, Samps said:

Here's the link to the study: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm705152a1.htm

Where in that study do you see that "VAERS under-reports vaccine death by at least 6X. "? 

[Leo Gura]

Covid produces a lot of side-effects. Focusing on myocarditis alone is not the right measure because it's not holistic. What you really need to do is tally up all the side-effects people tend to get from Covid vs the vaccine. And if you do that you'll see that the side-effects of Covid are much worse and more numerous -- by orders of magnitude.

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Covid produces a lot of side-effects. Focusing on myocarditis alone is not the right measure because it's not holistic. What you really need to do is tally up all the side-effects people tend to get from Covid vs the vaccine. And if you do that you'll see that the side-effects of Covid are much worse and more numerous -- by orders of magnitude.

what about just omicron version vs vaccine, probably hard to get good data on that

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

what about just omicron version vs vaccine, probably hard to get good data on that

Not sure but you should have already been vaccinated against earlier variants so don't use omicron as an excuse.

[Raptorsin7]

@undeather What is your take on seemingly wise and conscious individuals choosing to not get vaccinated?

[undeather]

59 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@undeather What is your take on seemingly wise and conscious individuals choosing to not get vaccinated?

I dont have a problem per sé with an informed decision to not get vaccinated. I am not part of the "vaccinate anyone and everything"-crowd.

The issue is the pollution of our information ecology through bad faith and somtimes dimwitted individuals, which makes the sensemaking process for the general population way more difficult than in actual is. And yes, this includes part of the mainstream media representation of Covid-19, but also the mentioned candidates in my previous response. 

I deal with this shit almost every day now and it makes me furious. People who clearly would benefit from the vaccine dont get it because they read or listened to some guy on the internet telling them otherwise. And the end of the day its us doctors that have to tell the family that he/she could have survived Covid through getting the vax beforehand. 

Also, the vast majority of individuals I regard as wise and concious are vaccinated. 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by undeather

[AuroraDream]

@herghly wow yeah exactly. This idea that heart issues are more common with cororna rather than the vaxx i think is a complete lie and just made up. But thats just a gut feeling. Couldn't prove it.

[Cocolove]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Covid produces a lot of side-effects. Focusing on myocarditis alone is not the right measure because it's not holistic. What you really need to do is tally up all the side-effects people tend to get from Covid vs the vaccine. And if you do that you'll see that the side-effects of Covid are much worse and more numerous -- by orders of magnitude.

Even for young healthy people? and  if after having heart issues from the vaccine, it's still less risky than being unvaccinated to get the booster? I had heart issues from the johnson and johnson and just got the pfizer booster because of mandates. 

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not sure but you should have already been vaccinated against earlier variants so don't use omicron as an excuse.

But what if you already were and now need to get the booster?

[Gili Trawangan]

2 minutes ago, Cocolove said:

just got the pfizer booster because of mandates. 

What do you mean? Did anyone force you to get a booster? 

[AuroraDream]

@Cocolove damn sorry you also got heart problems after. 

Again, I dont think its as rare as they say. 

[Ora]

On 2/4/2022 at 2:59 PM, Girzo said:

Canadian truckers protest organizers? Doing a cost-benefit analysis of vaccines? I have nothing to say.

Not sure what you're implying. The information in the presentation is no way discredited by any affiliation with the Canadian truckers. This came out months ago. Why do you just disregard all the information in there because you claim they are the organizers of the Canadian trucker protests? This is pure ignorance. You really shouldn't have said anything.

[Ora]

On 2/4/2022 at 2:59 PM, Girzo said:

Simply not true, what do you mean by most covid cases and death? This sentence has no meaning. They are doing ok, and vaccines are clearly helping. They had a lot of the delta variant, in the beginning, so they are expected to have a little more mortality because the more dangerous version of the virus has spread there, but other countries have omicron, which is benign.

Maybe I am wrong and we will see a rise in mortality also in countries with omicron, but it doesn't seem so at the moment. I am not an expert, but it only proves that it was right to do lockdowns, because even if we are all predestined to fall sick to covid sometime in the future (I already have been and I am vaccinated), then it's way better to be sick with omicron than delta, and we would have been sick with the original or the delta if not for all the measures taken.

Yes, you are wrong.

P.s. saying "simply not true" doesn't mean whatever you follow it up with is true.

P.p.s. 80% of serious covid is in vaccinated in Israel https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321674

 

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Ora

[Ora]

Recent report from the department of defence about 300% rise in cancers and other diseases. 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/01/whistleblowers-reveal-dod-medical-data-showing-military-cancer-diagnoses-tripled-since-rollout-experimental-vaccines-along-10x-increase-neurological-disorders-near-5x/

In depth article on how spike proteins cause damage in covid and vaccines and how the more boosters you get the worse your immune system function gets.

https://jamesfetzer.org/2022/01/sars-cov-2-vaccines-and-neurodegenerative-disease/

[undeather]

 

Quote

 

P.s. saying "simply not true" doesn't mean whatever you follow it up with is true.

P.p.s. 80% of serious covid is in vaccinated in Israel https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321674

 

Quote

 

Recent report from the department of defence about 300% rise in cancers and other diseases. 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/01/whistleblowers-reveal-dod-medical-data-showing-military-cancer-diagnoses-tripled-since-rollout-experimental-vaccines-along-10x-increase-neurological-disorders-near-5x/

In depth article on how spike proteins cause damage in covid and vaccines and how the more boosters you get the worse your immune system function gets.

https://jamesfetzer.org/2022/01/sars-cov-2-vaccines-and-neurodegenerative-disease/

 

So lets see the sources for your claims:
1) The first one is a Israeli media network identifying with religious Zionism 
2) The Gateway Pundit is a politically motivated, far right news outlet which gets in on every conspiracy possible
3) James Fetzer is a Holocaust denier and also a well known conspiracy theoriest. 

Making any "truth-claims" by citing sources like these is an automatic disqualifier.

Do you see the conformation bias there? 
Fascinating how the mind is able to delude itself.

 

[Girzo]

7 hours ago, Ora said:

(your chart)

Poland (58% fully-vaxxed) has only 4.4x as many residents as Isreal (67% fully-vaxxed, and started vaccinating earlier) but 11.7x more COVID deaths.

What other proof do you need that vaccines work? I have chosen Poland because it's the country I live in and know the situation for sure.

[PurpleTree]

20 hours ago, Ora said:

Yes, you are wrong.

P.s. saying "simply not true" doesn't mean whatever you follow it up with is true.

P.p.s. 80% of serious covid is in vaccinated in Israel https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321674

 

 

 

15 hours ago, undeather said:

 

So lets see the sources for your claims:
1) The first one is a Israeli media network identifying with religious Zionism 
2) The Gateway Pundit is a politically motivated, far right news outlet which gets in on every conspiracy possible
3) James Fetzer is a Holocaust denier and also a well known conspiracy theoriest. 

Making any "truth-claims" by citing sources like these is an automatic disqualifier.

Do you see the conformation bias there? 
Fascinating how the mind is able to delude itself.

 

 

12 hours ago, Girzo said:

Poland (58% fully-vaxxed) has only 4.4x as many residents as Isreal (67% fully-vaxxed, and started vaccinating earlier) but 11.7x more COVID deaths.

What other proof do you need that vaccines work? I have chosen Poland because it's the country I live in and know the situation for sure.

[Samps]

Definition of insanity

(2022 updated version)
Get vaxxed
Get boosted
Get Covid
Repeat

[Leo Gura]

People spreading anti-vax ideology here will be banned.

[mememe]

On 6.2.2022 at 8:48 AM, undeather said:

 

 

Quote

 

P.s. saying "simply not true" doesn't mean whatever you follow it up with is true.

P.p.s. 80% of serious covid is in vaccinated in Israel https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321674

 

Quote

 

Recent report from the department of defence about 300% rise in cancers and other diseases. 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/01/whistleblowers-reveal-dod-medical-data-showing-military-cancer-diagnoses-tripled-since-rollout-experimental-vaccines-along-10x-increase-neurological-disorders-near-5x/

In depth article on how spike proteins cause damage in covid and vaccines and how the more boosters you get the worse your immune system function gets.

https://jamesfetzer.org/2022/01/sars-cov-2-vaccines-and-neurodegenerative-disease/

 

So lets see the sources for your claims:
1) The first one is a Israeli media network identifying with religious Zionism 

 

if you scroll down the first article there is a note that all vaccinated cases who are in intensive care have severe underlying lung conditions - they would be probably dead unvaccinated and only have a chance because of the vaccine. its a placative bit polemic article, with a twist.

covid specialized health professionals are talking about the possibility of new variants since minimum half a year. for most people who are vaccinated if there is a virus breakthrough, now it’s like a flu, for those who have lung issues it’s still tough.

it is better to be prepared - it’s actually a good article to maybe again warn the ones with lung issues to really take extra care.

the unvaccinated are not especially mentioned as people with underlying lung conditions. as a side note. israel is really really progressive regarding covid, they also seem to have more esteem in the technology.

 

in general if the vaccine looses its effect over time or due to mutation it’s not anyones fault but a problem of the illness - that’s what a pandemic is, think of cholera, small pox and other illnesses. its not because of misinformation or false information why the numbers were stable before, it is because until that point the measures were effective.

Edited February 7, 2022 by mememe

[peanutspathtotruth]

I would really love a deep dive meta analysis of all of the many covid related issues, all the different perspectives and claims and data collections in a consilience-project-style article/book(s) or video.

I'm completely clueless about all this and only here and there listening to someone who I think might be a good source to understand a bit more about all this. Because I'm not scientifically trained and won't do so just to understand what's going on. Don't have the time or energy to understand the world through my own research alone, so I would seriously love some trustable meta sources with as much objectivity (true objectivity) as possible.

It feels good just to accept that I'm clueless. In all discussions, I simply can't make a strong statement because this is so confusing and way too complex to make sense of. And honestly, from almost everyone else, I get the feeling they don't know either. Almost everyone always comes from a place of already having a strong opinion. And I feel most of that is not based on scientific accuracy.

And so it goes with almost everything going on in this world. It's quite overwhelming to be honest. This sense making crisis is real.

Edited February 9, 2022 by peanutspathtotruth