Free will as God?

[allislove]

2 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

Have you've ever had a thought that you want to murder somebody? Did you act on it or not?

Thoughts come and go without a thinker that creates the thought but the thought can be believed/acted upon or seen and let go of.

Exactly 

[axiom]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

What else would an infinite mind will?

I find it more intuitive to consider that God is infinitely loving and infinitely at peace precisely because it is one, and it cannot therefore want anything at all. But I am not married to this idea.

@Leo Gura Does God's will involve needing or wanting something, as you see it? That to me is very tied to the meaning of "will". 

[axiom]

12 minutes ago, allislove said:

You can train this skill by daily morning meditation.

I think the point @Asayake is making is that you can't do anything if you don't exist.

[allislove]

11 minutes ago, axiom said:

I think the point @Asayake is making is that you can't do anything if you don't exist.

Right, you as separate entity doesn't exist but you are the whole existence, and there is a choice without chooser to let thinking that doesn't feel good go  

[axiom]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Will is just inherent to Mind. A mind is a thing that wills.

My impression is that it is the ego, and not Mind, that wills, wants or grasps. To collapse into oneness, generally what seems to be required is that we drop all of the above. If God is the ultimate and only real example of absolute oneness, then where does that leave will?

I'll add in the usual disclaimer here that I've never taken 5MEO.

[Mason Riggle]

You guys are overcomplicating this.  It's sooooooo simple.  There is nothing to do, because it's already happening. 

You (the organism, the ego, God, awareness, consciousness, the Universe... however you wanna define it) don't 'do' anything.. you ARE something, and you ARE it without trying to be.. and trying to be what you are, or trying to not to be what you are, would both just be more what you effortlessly ARE being.. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Mason Riggle

[axiom]

6 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

You guys are overcomplicating this.  It's sooooooo simple.  There is nothing to do, because it's already happening.  

You're probably right

[Mason Riggle]

@axiom it's obvious when you notice it.  (should probably be explicit here.. an organism finds it obvious when it becomes aware that it's doing what it does without trying to). 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Mason Riggle

[axiom]

1 minute ago, Mason Riggle said:

@axiom it's obvious when you notice it.  

But remember, "you" can't notice it at all

[Mason Riggle]

@axiom see edited comment.. 

 

[Mason Riggle]

@axiom typically when people say 'there is no you', what they mean is, 'there is no separation'.. They mean "you = everything there is" and there is no 'separate you' who is 'witness to' everything there is.  

This distinction is clear here:  When my organism says, "I am growing my hair", it may understand that it's 'the organism' that's growing it's hair, automatically (the organism is already effortlessly being itself, always, without trying to be).. there's no separate 'I' somewhere inside the organism who is 'doing that'.  

What happens is, an organism will think, "I am thinking these thoughts", and suddenly it imagines a separate 'self' (ego) which exists somewhere inside the organism who is 'doing' what the organism does... but that imaginary 'separate self' does not exist... Organisms do. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Mason Riggle

[WelcometoReality]

16 hours ago, allislove said:

> Thoughts happen but we do not originate them.

 

Thought happen, right, but there is choice of focusing on thinking or letting it go, by focusing on something else, like deep breathing.

55 minutes ago, allislove said:

Exactly 

Well said. ?

[Mason Riggle]

@WelcometoReality can one 'choose where to focus' without thinking about it?   How is there a choice (how is it my choice) if any thoughts about the choice are not 'originated by me'? 

This is like saying.. a computer didn't write it's own code.. but when you play against it in Chess.. it's the computer that's really choosing it's moves, as if this gives the computer some amount of 'freedom' in how it behaves. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Mason Riggle

[axiom]

18 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@axiom typically when people say 'there is no you', what they mean is, 'there is no separation'.. They mean "you = everything there is" and there is no 'separate you' who is 'witness to' everything there is.  

This distinction is clear here:  When my organism says, "I am growing my hair", it may understand that it's 'the organism' that's growing it's hair, automatically (the organism is already effortlessly being itself, always, without trying to be).. there's no separate 'I' somewhere inside the organism who is 'doing that'.  

What happens is, an organism will think, "I am thinking these thoughts", and suddenly it imagines a separate 'self' (ego) which exists somewhere inside the organism who is 'doing' what the organism does... but that imaginary 'separate self' does not exist... Organisms do. 

That's all clear to me. 

As such, differentiating any of the 'I's, whether used in reference to an individual, or to God itself, would be missing the point. God is not an 'I'. 

My question about will remains though, should there be a 'God'.

I'm beginning to feel like "nothing" comes above God in this imaginary heirarchy.

[Mason Riggle]

@axiom Nothing and God are identical.  There is 'what will'.. or 'what is'.. that's it.   

Whatever occurs, occurs exactly how it WILL, and there's nothing which can change this.. Reality is already changing as it will.

"Any attempt to change what is occurring, is just more 'what is occuring'"

There is ONE path, and we're ALWAYS ALREADY ON IT. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Mason Riggle

[axiom]

16 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@axiom Nothing and God are identical.  There is 'what will'.. or 'what is'.. that's it.   

Whatever occurs, occurs exactly how it WILL, and there's nothing which can change this.. Reality is already changing as it will.

"Any attempt to change what is occurring, is just more 'what is occuring'"

There is ONE path, and we're ALWAYS ALREADY ON IT. 

'What will' implies a past and a future. I feel like "what is" is more intuitive. 

[Mason Riggle]

@axiom yes. It's always now. 

[Mason Riggle]

@axiom is there anything for you to do right now which you're not already doing?  Can you do something different 'Now' than what you already ARE doing?

Can 'all of this' be any different 'now' from how it's already being 'now'?  

Edited February 3, 2022 by Mason Riggle

[axiom]

11 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@axiom is there anything for you to do right now which you're not already doing?  Can you do something different 'Now' than what you already ARE doing?

Can 'all of this' be any different 'now' from how it's already being 'now'?  

If  you are the dream character, what can you do to change the dream?

Talk of 'will' seems like it involves self-identification, whether it is human will or God's will. This is not right or wrong.

Edited February 3, 2022 by axiom

[Mason Riggle]

@axiom if you 'ARE' the dream character, there's nothing you can do to change the dream.  The dream changes. It's changing. 

You ARE something.. you don't DO anything (other than 'be how you are already automatically being'). 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Mason Riggle