Can't Talk To Hot Girls

[Anon212]

So I am a regular at one of the gyms in town and I'm a pretty popular guy there. I'm a good conversationalist but mostly with guys lol. When I go in, quite a few of the guys know and come talk to me. I actually break the ice with a lot of them and get talking with them. The conversation is great and flows smoothly. But there is a flip to this. Sometimes when a girl sees that I'm kind of a well known guy in the gym, she will actually come approach me and talk to me. The first girl I ever slept with was one that approached me in the gym. If she is ok looking, I don't mind but if she is hot, I get all worked up and get awkward. It's almost as if I lose my charm. They obviously pick up on this and often times it kills the attraction. How the hell do I fix this?  How can I speak and interact with hot girls the same way I interact with all of the dudes in the gym? 

[Federico del pueblo]

30 minutes ago, Anon212 said:

How can I speak and interact with hot girls the same way I interact with all of the dudes in the gym? 

Talk to 300 hot girls.

[Karmadhi]

You need to talk to a lot of hot girls. It actually benefits you to befriend a few of them and just be friends so you can start seeing them as human beings instead of some god figures. You will see that they have the same issues, fears, insecurities etc as any other girl. This will help you unpedestelize them. This should be done while you are talking and flirting with other hot girls. So befriend maybe 10 percent of the hot girls you talk to and hit on the other 90 percent.

The deeper solution involves two factors. The first is to actually raise your own PERCIEVED value to the point where it matches a hot girl's value. 

The second and deepest one is to unhook yourself from stage orange mindset and go towards green. When you go towards green your idea of a "high value" human being will be a lot less materialistic and more internal. A hot superficial girl for example, you will see her as legit below yourself. Yes she is hot but who gives a fuck, she is an emotional mess, i feel bad for her. This is how you will think of it.

Hope it helps.

Ps: You need to TALK to hot girls, you cannot avoid this no matter what.

[aurum]

@Anon212 Of course, because when you’re just talking to guys and okay-looking girls, you have no agenda. But as soon as a girl is hot, you get an agenda and your mind goes into creep mode.

One way you can beat this is by becoming a delusional narcissist who sees themselves as superior to the girl. This actually will work, but I don’t recommend it for obvious reasons.

The second way is you can build real confidence, self-esteem and learn to stop seeing women purely as sexual objects for you to conquer. This is actually harder and will likely take far longer. It requires serious personal growth. You likely will even get laid less if you choose this path. But the upside is you will actually be a healthy, happy human being.

 

 

[NoSelfSelf]

Because you put her on a pedestal you see her more of a value than yourself so its natural you will lose your charm as long as you see her above you this will happen...treat her looks like nothing special while being around them more often...imagine her without make up and how she looks when shes taking a dump next time she comes around im serious ?

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

@Anon212 

The second way is you can build real confidence, self-esteem and learn to stop seeing women purely as sexual objects for you to conquer. This is actually harder and will likely take far longer. It requires serious personal growth. You likely will even get laid less if you choose this path. But the upside is you will actually be a healthy, happy human being.

 

 

??

By the way, really "You likely Will even get las less"?

 

[aurum]

56 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

??

By the way, really "You likely Will even get las less"?

 

Yeah it’s the truth. There’s this lie sold by pickup teachers that by being “healthy” is how you’ll get laid the most. But you won’t. No guy is going to compete with Dan Bilzerian because of their “self-esteem”. A guy like that has dedicated his whole life to optimizing the most casual sex possible.

So why would you want to compete? In fact, if you choose the healthy route, there’s a chance you’ll say “fuck this pickup shit” and just settle down with one girl for the rest of your life.

People who are actually secure don’t need to just keep increasing their lay count indefinitely. Have whatever experiences you want, but at some point you should get over it.

 

[Leo Gura]

Lol, welcome to learning game.

You will start attracting hot girls when you stop caring about them. The hotter she is the less you gotta care.

Talk to thousands of hot girls, sleep with plenty of them, and then you will stop caring and they will love you.

[LordFall]

3 hours ago, aurum said:

Yeah it’s the truth. There’s this lie sold by pickup teachers that by being “healthy” is how you’ll get laid the most. But you won’t. No guy is going to compete with Dan Bilzerian because of their “self-esteem”. A guy like that has dedicated his whole life to optimizing the most casual sex possible.

So why would you want to compete? In fact, if you choose the healthy route, there’s a chance you’ll say “fuck this pickup shit” and just settle down with one girl for the rest of your life.

People who are actually secure don’t need to just keep increasing their lay count indefinitely. Have whatever experiences you want, but at some point you should get over it.

 

Indeed. You have to be honest in what you want in this whole game journey. Is it based on validation/self-esteem? I actually don't think this is shallow, self-esteem cannot be faked. If you objectively figure out that you do not have the ability to attract women that you deem attractive, I'd say that's a big issue worth fixing. It can get fixed after a few good experiences followed by self-esteem work though, there is indeed massive diminishing returns in sleeping with a lot of girls.

I think there is a huge component of hedonism in-game though. It is fun to go out and seduce random women. Intimacy/love is not what is sought in this context, the aim is lust and adventure. Which are not bad things as long as you know that's what you're doing.

Personally, I need to experience a few things before I even allow myself to open up to a single woman. I'm hugely attracted to the harem lifestyle and the BDSM lifestyle. I had a girlfriend without fully exploring that and even in the times that we were happy, I felt like I couldn't fully even allow myself to consider just being with her without knowing what those fields have to offer.

There is a lot to be said about tantra and/or psychedelics when it comes to monogamous sex. I believe that there is a huge depth in sexual exploration that can be done with a single partner that most people are afraid to explore. 

10 hours ago, Anon212 said:

So I am a regular at one of the gyms in town and I'm a pretty popular guy there. I'm a good conversationalist but mostly with guys lol. When I go in, quite a few of the guys know and come talk to me. I actually break the ice with a lot of them and get talking with them. The conversation is great and flows smoothly. But there is a flip to this. Sometimes when a girl sees that I'm kind of a well known guy in the gym, she will actually come approach me and talk to me. The first girl I ever slept with was one that approached me in the gym. If she is ok looking, I don't mind but if she is hot, I get all worked up and get awkward. It's almost as if I lose my charm. They obviously pick up on this and often times it kills the attraction. How the hell do I fix this?  How can I speak and interact with hot girls the same way I interact with all of the dudes in the gym? 

How many "hot" women do you interact with on a daily basis? If you talk to a really hot girl only once per week then of course your literal physiology is gonna tell you to not fuck it up cowboy because we're gonna have to wait a whole other week to talk to a hot girl again. 

Leo is right that the only fix to this is game or exposure. Clubbing is the most suggested way to learn game because it has a high volume of hot girls in an environment where you're allowed to practice game while being anonymous and having your reputation preserved if you come up as creepy because you said some weird shit. 

Find some other place that attractive women frequent where you can interact with them continuously while not risking a blow to your social status. 

[Valach]

13 hours ago, aurum said:

@Anon212 The second way is you can build real confidence, self-esteem and learn to stop seeing women purely as sexual objects for you to conquer. This is actually harder and will likely take far longer. It requires serious personal growth. You likely will even get laid less if you choose this path. But the upside is you will actually be a healthy, happy human being.

 

 

Could you briefly describe how would one go about developing real confidence? Lately, I have noticed shortcuts in pickup. I am getting results but I have become really neurotic and can't seem to enjoy life as much, so I am curious what thing I could change regarding my pickup journey.

[Nahm]

Translate ‘get all worked up & awkward / lose my charm’ to what emotions you experience(d), and what the guidance therein was / is in regard to self referential beliefs. It is possible to put relationships before communion, but when you do you end up making this thread. 

[Chrisd]

16 hours ago, aurum said:

Yeah it’s the truth. There’s this lie sold by pickup teachers that by being “healthy” is how you’ll get laid the most. But you won’t. No guy is going to compete with Dan Bilzerian because of their “self-esteem”. A guy like that has dedicated his whole life to optimizing the most casual sex possible.

So why would you want to compete? In fact, if you choose the healthy route, there’s a chance you’ll say “fuck this pickup shit” and just settle down with one girl for the rest of your life.

People who are actually secure don’t need to just keep increasing their lay count indefinitely. Have whatever experiences you want, but at some point you should get over it.

 

 I think that's just a limiting belief that goes something like "you can't be healthy and get laid a lot" 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Chrisd

[hamedsf]

train even harder and make your blood vessels full of testicle hormone, now you're ready to talk to those chicks. 

[VictorB02]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:27 AM, Anon212 said:

So I am a regular at one of the gyms in town and I'm a pretty popular guy there. I'm a good conversationalist but mostly with guys lol. When I go in, quite a few of the guys know and come talk to me. I actually break the ice with a lot of them and get talking with them. The conversation is great and flows smoothly. But there is a flip to this. Sometimes when a girl sees that I'm kind of a well known guy in the gym, she will actually come approach me and talk to me. The first girl I ever slept with was one that approached me in the gym. If she is ok looking, I don't mind but if she is hot, I get all worked up and get awkward. It's almost as if I lose my charm. They obviously pick up on this and often times it kills the attraction. How the hell do I fix this?  How can I speak and interact with hot girls the same way I interact with all of the dudes in the gym? 

The more you feel and think internally "this girl is a hot one" or "this one is different" the more it will f*ck you up. Thats what every normal dude does. They treat hot girls like they are angels from another dimenson.

It's best to see it the opposite way: the hotter the girl, the more normal the human you have to treat her.

Hot girls are used to needy guys putting off the energy and vibe towards them that "oh my god this girl is a 10 I would do anything to be with her".

So the less you give off that vibe, the more attractive you will be. The more you will stand out.

Leo said it great:

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol, welcome to learning game.

You will start attracting hot girls when you stop caring about them. The hotter she is the less you gotta care.

Talk to thousands of hot girls, sleep with plenty of them, and then you will stop caring and they will love you.

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Chrisd said:

 I think that's just a limiting belief that goes something like "you can't be healthy and get laid a lot" 

No.

I’m not saying you “can’t” get laid a lot, as if it were to bend the laws of physics. I’m saying that guys who are healthy usually don’t have the insecurity that would drive them to do so.

You would need to be a neurotic fuck to keep pushing your lay count past a certain point. Especially when it’s just casual and without emotions or attachments.

And that number will be subjective depending on the guy. For some, they might still sleep with a lot of women. For others, it might be very few. But there’s an “enough” point that goes off in healthy psyches eventually.

Even a guy like Dan Bilzerian, who I mentioned earlier, has hit this wall. He talks about it in interviews. It just took him about 1000+ women to get there.

8 hours ago, Valach said:

Could you briefly describe how would one go about developing real confidence? Lately, I have noticed shortcuts in pickup. I am getting results but I have become really neurotic and can't seem to enjoy life as much, so I am curious what thing I could change regarding my pickup journey.

It’s literally everything Leo talks about on his channel.

Just do the practices he recommends and you’ll be fine.

[Javfly33]

19 hours ago, aurum said:

Yeah it’s the truth. There’s this lie sold by pickup teachers that by being “healthy” is how you’ll get laid the most. But you won’t. No guy is going to compete with Dan Bilzerian because of their “self-esteem”. A guy like that has dedicated his whole life to optimizing the most casual sex possible.

So why would you want to compete? In fact, if you choose the healthy route, there’s a chance you’ll say “fuck this pickup shit” and just settle down with one girl for the rest of your life.

People who are actually secure don’t need to just keep increasing their lay count indefinitely. Have whatever experiences you want, but at some point you should get over it.

 

@aurum Ok But I Ask because I see men that have Hot girlfriends and i am (almost) sure that 90% of them didnt get them following PUA theory. They get them just being them (although being "them" in that sense might mean 'having game' as Leo says)

I Dont Care about optimizing the highest possible number of lays LoL (Who wants that? XD). I Care about becoming "natural" to the point i can attract a Hot girl withouth scheming constantly in my mind What should I do or What should I say 

[Javfly33]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol, welcome to learning game.

You will start attracting hot girls when you stop caring about them. The hotter she is the less you gotta care.

Talk to thousands of hot girls, sleep with plenty of them, and then you will stop caring and they will love you.

LOL. Life its so awfully designed Lmao. So when you desperarely want them you wont get them not even a bit, and when you Dont Care anymore about them And they have Lost the appeal in you, then they Will want to be with you? Jesus...the Guy Who designed this joke...

[roopepa]

A question popped in mind, do you really want the "hot ones", or do you just think you kinda somehow should want, but it doesn't really resonate?

Because for me it seems you enjoy talking to the "ok looking", but when "hotness", there's discomfort.

[Michal__]

You can do progressive overload

Like if game on a 5/10 is not hard for you then focus on those for a few weeks then move on to 6/10 then 7/10 then 8/10 etc.

The upside is that if you blow the sets you don't care about it won't cause as much anxiety therefore you'll learn more in the long run than if you just jumped to the hottest women right away.

Edit: tbh hot girls are often way easier to talk to since they're used to guys being afraid of them therefore they're pleasantly surprised when you just don't care.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Michal__

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

@aurum  I Care about becoming "natural" to the point i can attract a Hot girl withouth scheming constantly in my mind What should I do or What should I say 

I’d start with the 9 hours series Leo just shot on this topic. That be a good start.

The reality is you’re going to have to invest 10s to maybe 100s of hours learning the theory. Then you’re going to have to invest 100 - 1000+ hours actually going out talking to girls to internalize the theory. And then you’re going to have to invest another 1000+ hours doing inner game work to make it really stick and become natural.

Still wanna do it?