Can a man-made computer become conscious?

[IAmReallyImportant]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I get you .if  the human conscious ability is beyond our understanding, nor can we pin point its location, how in hell can we imagine we could instill this mysterious beast into a machine? It ignores all the other philosophical arguments for simple engineering ability.

However I put my faith that with thrnexft 100,000 years of the endless advancement of technology. We can simulate intelligence and consciousness. 

I know it's hard but I don't think it's impossible 

I had a conversation with a professor, who has deep understanding and experience in the industry regarding AI and statistics. He said it would take infinite computational capacities to map all processes down to the quantum scale. It is a paradoxon and could be equalized to simulate the whole universe as interconnections between entities have to be be considered as well etc. .

Moreover you cannot verify the result, even if you would have achieved it.

Edited February 9, 2022 by IAmReallyImportant

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

I had a conversation with a professor, who has deep understanding and experience in the industry regarding AI and statistics. He said it would take infinite computational capacities to map all processes down to the quantum scale. It is a paradoxon and could be equalized to simulate the whole universe as interconnections between entities have to be be considered as well etc. .

Moreover you cannot verify the result, even if you would have achieved it.

I can also add two cents here. The idea is, that, hey, c'mon, we know that the human mind does not reside on the moon, and somehow perceive itself to be in a human head which it sees out of, and hears with. We know that if you cut up somebody's brain, he loses brain function, hit him hard enough, in the head, with a hammer, and he will promptly lose consciousness, perhaps permanently. You can also break something else, like a window or a lamp, by hitting it with a hammer. In this sense (in every sense), the brain is physical. You, 'you', subjectively, your experiences, your memories, this is happening in your body. Try drinking some wine, you get drunk, that's the alchohol getting into your brain and messing w/its functionality. A child is growing, and its brain is maturing, getting bigger, and you see a mature individual emerge from something that originally, physically, was only a few cells and didn't yet have a distinguishable brain organ. As the brain physically organically is built, the mental functions are enabled.

If we  totally figure out how the brain functions and generates consciousness..it's possible to then recreate an electronic neural network that mimics the brain ?. 

[IAmReallyImportant]

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I can also add two cents here. The idea is, that, hey, c'mon, we know that the human mind does not reside on the moon, and somehow perceive itself to be in a human head which it sees out of, and hears with. We know that if you cut up somebody's brain, he loses brain function, hit him hard enough, in the head, with a hammer, and he will promptly lose consciousness, perhaps permanently. You can also break something else, like a window or a lamp, by hitting it with a hammer. In this sense (in every sense), the brain is physical. You, 'you', subjectively, your experiences, your memories, this is happening in your body. Try drinking some wine, you get drunk, that's the alchohol getting into your brain and messing w/its functionality. A child is growing, and its brain is maturing, getting bigger, and you see a mature individual emerge from something that originally, physically, was only a few cells and didn't yet have a distinguishable brain organ. As the brain physically organically is built, the mental functions are enabled.

If we  totally figure out how the brain functions and generates consciousness..it's possible to then recreate an electronic neural network that mimics the brain ?. 

Honestly, this is a naive assumption. It doesn't take long to contemplate to get to the insight, that you have written above doesn't make sense.

I also believe that one could create a brain/nervous-system etc. simulation.

Edited February 9, 2022 by IAmReallyImportant

[Matthew85]

8 hours ago, Ineedanswers said:

rupert spira says the truth is really the only thing we desire.But since not everyone has heard about enlightenment etc they pursue other materialistic things falsely thinking it will make them happy.

I don't closely follow his work, but if this is his perspective I wouldn't agree. It's a mistake to speak in generalizations like this, which often happens with people who are passionate about spirituality or enlightenment. If there is one thing God desires it's immense diversity of experiences. Just observe the world and universe. 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

Honestly, this is a naive assumption. It doesn't take long to contemplate to get to the insight, that you have written above doesn't make sense.

I also believe that one could create a brain/nervous-system etc. simulation.

When we have so much neuoroscience, there is plenty indeed, to elaborate on. I do in fact doubt how to read your comments, without interpreting them as being basically ignorant of neuoroscience, though maybe it's just that it's easy to misinterpret your comments--I mean, what, you know that the brain is in the head, right? That's the brain, that's where the mental processing takes place. Not in the big toe. Cut somebody's big toe off, and they are still who they are, they're still conscious. Cut up their brain, though, you know how to do damage to consciousness. Perhaps you have a notion of the soul, which exists after death, is reincarnated maybe, these are common beliefs today, in which case, you can be made aware, that it sounds pretty absurd to a lot of people who take an interest in science. I'm not precisely an atheist or materialist myself (I don't like to be tied down with too much metaphysical baggage, what do we know? What would we do with the knowledge if we did?), but the scientific perspective on the relationship between the brain and 'consciousness' seems like a very big and comprehensive perspective. Especially to me, the one who argues that a computer can be conscious

[SelfHelpGuy]

@Ineedanswers

9 hours ago, Ineedanswers said:

@Leo Gura but leo ,wouldnt the wisest course of action be to put 100% effort into training yourself to be able to maintain that level of consciousness?instead of putting the huge amount of effort you do into your videos and doing things like pickup etc?

You know with 100% certainty pickup,relationships,life purpose won't bring you the  happiness you seek.so why  waste time engaging in them?

@Leo Gura +1

[IAmReallyImportant]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

When we have so much neuoroscience, there is plenty indeed, to elaborate on. I do in fact doubt how to read your comments, without interpreting them as being basically ignorant of neuoroscience, though maybe it's just that it's easy to misinterpret your comments--I mean, what, you know that the brain is in the head, right? That's the brain, that's where the mental processing takes place. Not in the big toe. Cut somebody's big toe off, and they are still who they are, they're still conscious. Cut up their brain, though, you know how to do damage to consciousness. Perhaps you have a notion of the soul, which exists after death, is reincarnated maybe, these are common beliefs today, in which case, you can be made aware, that it sounds pretty absurd to a lot of people who take an interest in science. I'm not precisely an atheist or materialist myself (I don't like to be tied down with too much metaphysical baggage, what do we know? What would we do with the knowledge if we did?), but the scientific perspective on the relationship between the brain and 'consciousness' seems like a very big and comprehensive perspective. Especially to me, the one who argues that a computer can be conscious

You have to know what conciousness is first. You need a stable first order hypothesis. Without it you just guessing around like playing roulette in a casino. Your ideas are the most common beliefs today. I am not ignorant about neuroscience, maybe ignorant about the esoteric and non-scientific belief-system behind it.

Edited February 9, 2022 by IAmReallyImportant

[spiritual memes]

@Ramu bruh i literally said that consciousness dreams up all of existence. very materialist of me...

[spiritual memes]

@Mosess makes more sens than what Leo is saying

[Someone here]

10 hours ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

You have to know what conciousness is first. You need a stable first order hypothesis. Without it you just guessing around like playing roulette in a casino. Your ideas are the most common beliefs today. I am not ignorant about neuroscience, maybe ignorant about the esoteric and non-scientific belief-system behind it.

I think maybe people are confusing "can" iwith "will" with this question. Obviously, our consciousness is the result of something in our brain -- I'm not really sure what part that might be, but the fact that taking away a certain part of your brain might cause consciousness to go away tells me that ultimately a brain is a thing made up of component parts working together, just like anything else.

All you have to do is find a way to artificially create brain impulses or something that works in a very similar way.

But that's not to say that in the practical sense it will ever happen! Maybe such a task will turn out too hard, or maybe there is no material we will ever find to mimic the above. But if we are talking thousands, maybe millions of years in the future, who knows! Something that looks impossible now might be executed way into the future, who knows!

[Leo Gura]

18 hours ago, spiritual memes said:

but you're not very clear on what 'you' means.

EVERYTHING

[Tim R]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Obviously, our consciousness is the result of something in our brain

Is that obvious?

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Tim R said:

Is that obvious?

Yes .at least there is an undeniable correlation. 

To explain consciousness as a physical process we must acknowledge the role of energy in the brain. Energetic activity is fundamental to all physical processes and causally drives biological behavior. Recent neuroscientific evidence can be interpreted in a way that suggests consciousness is a product of the organization of energetic activity in the brain. The nature of energy itself, though, remains largely mysterious, and we do not fully understand how it contributes to brain function or consciousness.

The modern scientific understanding of the "self" is that its temporary and subject to time and change and death as the body is.. And the 'mind' or 'personality' is not an abstract spiritual essence that is separate from the body.. But it's a byproduct of the brain.. 

There is no 'self' separate from the body or inside the body.. But rather its an emergent phenomenon of the body..

The body and mind grow together and decay together.. And we can actually change your personality by playing with the chemicals in your brain... A little injection of chloroform can erase your thinking process completely and can turn 'you' into a psycho completely lost control.... That shows you that your self is a byproduct of chemicals in the brain.. 

And the personality dissolves once you get older enough.. As a result of the dissolve of the neural network in the brain.. You see? That' personality ' completely dissolves in elderly people because it was never a substantial thing onto itself. 

[Tim R]

@Someone here 

Neuroscience, energy, emergent phenomena, physicality, the brain, evidence, the body, biology, etc... 

All these occur within consciousness, I think we can agree on that? None of these things I just listed ever occured independently of consciousness, yes? They always and only occured as an experience, i.e. as a content/form of consciousness. We first must acknowledge that before we can go any further.

Don't you think this might be a clue to the nature of consciousness? If all these things depend on consicousness, then perhaps consciousness is not something that arises from all these, but exactly the other way round: they depend on consciousness. 

A "computer" is also something that occurs within consicousness. It cannot produce consciousness. 

And I think I told you before, in order to come to and understanding of the nature of consciousness, it is utterly insufficient to think about it, you have to access direct experience, because that's what consciousness is, that's all you have.

[Someone here]

17 minutes ago, Tim R said:

@Someone here 

Neuroscience, energy, emergent phenomena, physicality, the brain, evidence, the body, biology, etc... 

All these occur within consciousness, I think we can agree on that? None of these things I just listed ever occured independently of consciousness, yes? They always and only occured as an experience, i.e. as a content/form of consciousness. We first must acknowledge that before we can go any further.

Don't you think this might be a clue to the nature of consciousness? If all these things depend on consicousness, then perhaps consciousness is not something that arises from all these, but exactly the other way round: they depend on consciousness. 

A "computer" is also something that occurs within consicousness. It cannot produce consciousness. 

And I think I told you before, in order to come to and understanding of the nature of consciousness, it is utterly insufficient to think about it, you have to access direct experience, because that's what consciousness is, that's all you have.

Those things depend on consciousness and consciousness depends on them. Its a strangeloop.

I know a man-made computer can become conscious. Human life is not so complex as people believe. People are egotistical and ignorant. If you ever believe that there is no higher intelligence than human life, then you are gravely mistaken. Just like humans can dissect, understand, and control every aspect of an insect or simple animal, such as a dog, all that can be done to humans.

There is no reason to disbelieve humans cannot be dissected, controlled completely, replicated, and that a "soul" can become downloaded onto a computer disk. There is nothing sacred about a human's life. It can be copied or destroyed freely. There is nothing essential or special about any particular human being. You can call this "dehumanizing", but, what again is human anyway? What does it mean to be human?

My answer is, not much. It means very little to be human. I believe there are much, much higher forms of existence than human life. Not just "aliens", but, I believe some men and women can transcend human nature, and become godlike. There are no limits in nature, no limits anywhere.

All is possible.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Someone here

[Tim R]

@Someone here Sir, you are lost in thought. Pointless rumination about what can't be thought.

Psychedelics would crack open that world view rather effectively... not recommending anything here, just sayin'. 

[Someone here]

@Tim R no worries. We simply disagree .it's OK ? 

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

Obviously, our consciousness is the result of something in our brain

Haha

Flip that around.

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Haha

Flip that around.

Lol but what you're not seeing is you're creating the duality between conscious vs unconscious. Go and try and verify an actual difference between something conscious and something unconscious. Sure you can say a rock or a ? is unconscious and a human is but where's your evidence for that? How you know people are not philosophical zombies and as a corollary how do you know rocks and brains don't feel, see and hear you in the same way you feel hear and see . its definitely not wild speculation. 

Furthermore how do you explain th brain's more than obvious correlation with consciousness? If your brain gets damaged there will be damage in your consciousness accordingly. Etc 

You seem to assume that just because you can't imagine consciousness emerging out of unconscious objects that it can't. But says who? Don't confuse the limits of your imagination with reality. Just because God exists does not disprove materialism. It could be the case that consciousness is a material by-product that has developed over time out of material objects that have developed over time out of nothing. That nothing is the ultimate God that does not have qualities, and is not even conscious, therefore it can take any shape or form. In this case, it happens to take the form of "consciousness". So consciousness is not God but just a tiny part of it.

I'd like anyone to challenge this perspective.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Someone here

[Ramu]

@Someone here Consciousness doesn't arise from matter.  Matter arises out of Consciousness..i.e.  You.  Not you, but YOU.  Get it?