Sexual Assault at School Dance?

[Thought Art]

32 minutes ago, mememe said:

aren’t you calling yourself thought art? maybe you are artistic enough to find an answer to that question yourself.

Mature

[johnlocke18]

@Leo Gura You do realize it only takes her word to ruin his life, and if he does anything other than apologize he’s gambling just for the sake of principle and self esteem that she’ll say something. The No three times rule you made up is going to create a lot of sex offenders, because it doesn’t matter if you get laid when you’re gambling catching a charge, big time. Most of these guys looking for advice have autistic tendencies and will just follow what you say regardless of the situation. You seriously need to be more careful with almost all of the advice you give people. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by johnlocke18

[johnlocke18]

Honestly he should probably talk to her instead of stand his ground, unless she already presses charges. 

[johnlocke18]

@Insightful27 Listen man, you might want to talk to her about it and explain you misunderstood. It only takes her word to ruin your life, regardless if you stand your ground. These people telling you it’s no biggie and to stand your ground is really idiotic, because it might lead to you catching a charge. Only do that if she doesn’t listen and still accuses you. 

[johnlocke18]

@Leo Gura He should probably talk to her about it instead of stand his ground and brush it off. If she was to the point of crying it doesn’t matter if he stands his ground, because if she sees it as wrong she has the power to do something. 

[Hardkill]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If it is as you describe it, it's nonsense and you did nothing wrong.

Own it and don't worry about it. Don't feel ashamed for physically escalating on a receptive girl.

Girls don't like taking responsibility for sex, so they will offload it onto guys as much as possible, sometimes to the point of absurdity. The solution is to just own that you got a dick and if a girl is around you she should expect to get nailed. If she doesn't like it she is free to leave. Your sexual intent should be obvious and if she doesn't like it she's free to blow you out.

So just own your sexuality and masculinity and don't let girls play dumb with you too much. Hold your frame.

If anything, work on sharpening your sexual intent even more and physically escalate more but with keen calibration to her receptivity. Get good at feeling when a girl is receptive to touch or not. If she is, escalate heavy and own it. If she is resistant, smoothly back off and try again a bit later. If she keeps being resistant, leave her for another girl, don't play her games.

You did good in that you did what you wanted and didn't try to be meek or shy. Don't let this silly incident spook you.

How do you know if what you did to make the girl feel creeped out was actually creepy or if it was actually just the girl herself who happens to be a prude?

 

 

[Thought Art]

I think he needs to speak to some adults that are around him, maybe some people at his school. He shouldn't be alone going through this.

I hope she gets the help she needs and that if she thinks what he did was assault she can explain it to others. 

I hope both sides can be heard.

1. If he did something inn-appropriate, at age 17... this is how he learns to respect boundaries and as a teenager. He is here sharing it... so I hope he is trying to improve and understand human interaction better. This sounds like a confusing and scary scenerio. 

2. If she is projected trauma onto him this is a difficult situation

Note: Women do not have to say no or show fear for them to be creeped out by you. Apparently smiling and playing along is a survival strategy women use. 

If she is 'pulling away from you' etc... then that is a sign. 

Personally, I think it's best to side of a er of caution with touch. Especially when you are only young and not at some club in vegas. 

However, don't catastrophize. Don't listen to calamity howlers. This whole you make one physical mistake thing and it ruins your entire life is a cultural illness. People need to be given the chance to learn, grow and be held accountable in a constructive way...(case by case basis).

Sex is one of the most confusing and challenging energies and domains of life. People are confused as fuck by it, don't understand it and are incredibly emotionally charged by it. Learn your lessons fast. I refuse to live a in a world where people can't learn from honest mistakes around sexuality and consent. This whole mob mentality of destroying people who make mistakes is scaring and hurting a lot more than it helps imo. That being said accountability is CRUCIAL. People need to be able to grow, heal and inspire future generations to be better. 

I'd rather men be able to openly share their fears and mistakes so they can be better pursuers, partners, lovers, friends, coworkers, than live their whole lives needing to hide their errors. So, learn all you can from this young friend. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Thought Art

[Danioover9000]

@Insightful27

On 30/01/2022 at 5:04 PM, Insightful27 said:

For some background I'm 17M and I went to a school dance with a girl I was talking to (18F). We have hung out a handful of times, and liked each other. One of those times she made out with me and straddled me. Anyway we go to the dance and everyone is dancing, grinding etc.. I try to dance with her, hold her hips and pull her into me.  Moving with the music, just like some of her friends and the people around us were doing. About 3-4 times she pulls away from me to dance with her friends (they tend to be very clingy with each other) and after she leaves them I try and dance with her again. I get tired of this and leave to find my other friends, then later, her group of friends come up to me saying I sexually assaulted her and she's crying about it. Never touched anything other than her hips, didn't even kiss her. For the past like 12 hours I've felt so ashamed and embarrassed. She never said no, moved my hands away or anything like that. She was actually moving with me. What should've I done different? Am I just being socially negligent? How could this possibly qualify as sexual assault? I'm scared about this ruining my reputation and I'm not sure how I will ever be able to escalate with girls again. Literally any opinions or advice on how to move on is helpful.   

   I'd be more aware of the situation, and calibrate. So, what you could've done differently, was to calibrate more to the social situation, and listened more to the non verbals.

   50/50 in the social negligence part, unless you are autistic and don't socialize much at all. We don't know enough about your social life to say you're probably negligent, unless you think there's negligence.

   It's a misunderstanding. Wait a few weeks for this to settle down, then talk to her. Depending on what she says, is where you decide to axe her or continue the relationship.

   Treat this as part of your PUA journey, you'll have mostly failures to successfully calibrate and hook girls in. Leo has been called a pedophile, a crazy cult leader, a lunatic, and some tried to ruin his reputation. Other well known people have had attacks on their reputation, and some survive from it. Don't let it bother you too much because it'll pass.

[Insightful27]

On 2/1/2022 at 4:00 AM, mememe said:

sounds like you guys are around 13+. or maybe you are a teacher?

Did you even read the post?

[Insightful27]

15 hours ago, johnlocke18 said:

Listen man, you might want to talk to her about it and explain you misunderstood

I asked her to talk and she said "I don't ever want to talk to you again" so I left her alone.

[Insightful27]

On 2/1/2022 at 3:43 AM, Leo Gura said:

keen calibration to her receptivity. Get good at feeling when a girl is receptive to touch or not. If she is, escalate heavy and own it.

@Leo Gura How can you be accurate when judging how receptive a girl is? Seems to me like some girls will reciprocate more than others even if they are equally receptive depending on how shy they are. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Insightful27

[Insightful27]

Update: Talked to a mutual friend and they said she had done this with 3 other guys, apparently one of them had sex with her and ditched her so she claimed SA. Not sure the accuracy of info, but after this whole shit-show it would make sense.

[mememe]

@Insightful27 yeah i read the post - whatever age you claim the phenomenon stays the same. if it’s super difficult for you to read the situation: at 18 women don’t like guys who oversex situations, if you signalize them you think with your dick and not with your central nervous system you are through. its as easy as that. they search for guys who value them as a human being. if you don’t like her she’ll notice fast and she will be unforgiving. you used her and she noticed - end of game.

if it was not mutual maybe your friends reach her through? i bet you are inventing the whole story - it sounds set up. get clear with your ego issues. (wondering how you didn’t know this in advance, 3of your friends, huh? they didn’t tell you your buddies?)

whatever, i doubt you are sweet innocent 17 @insightful“27“

Edited February 2, 2022 by mememe

[Michal__]

2 hours ago, Insightful27 said:

Update: Talked to a mutual friend and they said she had done this with 3 other guys, apparently one of them had sex with her and ditched her so she claimed SA. Not sure the accuracy of info, but after this whole shit-show it would make sense.

Nice to know it didn't have anything to do with you.

Hope it won't negatively affect your self esteem / sex goals.

 

[Danioover9000]

@Insightful27

7 hours ago, Insightful27 said:

@Leo Gura How can you be accurate when judging how receptive a girl is? Seems to me like some girls will reciprocate more than others even if they are equally receptive depending on how shy they are. 

   You do so by socializing more, and calibrating your speach, tone, and body language to the person you're speaking to. Socializing a lot is enough to do this, which is why some men who are extroverted are great at social settings and doing stuff, they had just more time earlier to socialize.

   Being mindful helps a bit too.

[Leo Gura]

22 hours ago, Hardkill said:

How do you know if what you did to make the girl feel creeped out was actually creepy or if it was actually just the girl herself who happens to be a prude?

It's all subjective and relative. Usually if the girl isn't attracted to you she will claim it is creepy, and when she is attracted she loves it and doesn't care. The way girls use that word it means very little unless you are literally behaving like a stalker.

The bottom line is not to care about it. But be calibrated and smooth. Know when to back off.

7 hours ago, Insightful27 said:

@Leo Gura How can you be accurate when judging how receptive a girl is? Seems to me like some girls will reciprocate more than others even if they are equally receptive depending on how shy they are. 

This comes with experience. You read her face, her eyes, and her level of compliance to your leading and escalation.

When you approach a girl you can usually tell within a few seconds if she's receptive or not. But this requires experience.

If you're touching her body and she's smiling and not pushing you away, that means she's receptive and you can escalate further. When you over-escalate the girl will give you a weird face and physically recoil from you. In which case you know you went to far, so back off.

If you put your hands on her hips and she's happy and doesn't recoil, you know she's receptive. If she cries about it later that's not your problem. A non-receptive girl will never allow you to keep your hands on her hips.

Her face tells you everything you need to know.

[Hardkill]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's all subjective and relative. Usually if the girl isn't attracted to you she will claim it is creepy, and when she is attracted she loves it and doesn't care. The way girls use that word it means very little unless you are literally behaving like a stalker.

The bottom line is not to care about it. But be calibrated and smooth. Know when to back off.

Right, but anytime a girl rejects me because she felt like I creeped her out, then how do I know if it was because I actually did something  stalkerish or if it was because that was just her subjective opinion?

Edited February 3, 2022 by Hardkill

[Danioover9000]

@Hardkill

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

Right, but anytime a girl rejects me because she felt like I creeped her out, then how do I know if it was because I actually did something  stalkerish or if it was because that was just her subjective opinion?

   You know by being socially calibrated. You know you are being creepy, because as you are talking, as you are making and maintaining eye contact, as you are gesturing using your body, you simultaneously pick up changes in her tonality, and body language. Being creepy has a hard feeling to it, it's not like being horny. The state of mostly being hard kills most cold approaches, so try to lossen up, get into an excited state, and try again.

   Afterwards, for every rejection, ask yourself were you in the right state to be approaching? Were you calibrated? What were her non verbal cues?

Edited February 3, 2022 by Danioover9000

[mememe]

6 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Right, but anytime a girl rejects me because she felt like I creeped her out, then how do I know if it was because I actually did something  stalkerish or if it was because that was just her subjective opinion?

ask yourself why her subjective opinion doesn’t seem to matter? 

[Raze]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:33 AM, Insightful27 said:

Update: Talked to a mutual friend and they said she had done this with 3 other guys, apparently one of them had sex with her and ditched her so she claimed SA. Not sure the accuracy of info, but after this whole shit-show it would make sense.

Talk to a lawyer, this bitch needs a wake up call.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Raze