The fear of making other people uncomfortable

[PurpleTree]

Besides having a fear of my own discomfort i guess there's a pretty big fear of making other people uncomfortable, especially women.

Has anyone had the same fear and successfully dealt with it?

Would an antidote be to make others uncomfortable on purpose?

[something_else]

the practical solution is move to a big city where you never see the same girl twice and you're free to experiment

the root solution is a lot more complicated, I struggle with the same problem

[PurpleTree]

25 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Having fear of making people uncomfortable while socializing, is not necessarilly a bad fear you know?.

it might not be generally bad but it's holding me back too much. 

20 minutes ago, something_else said:

the root solution is a lot more complicated, I struggle with the same problem

tell me more if you found something.

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Besides having a fear of my own discomfort i guess there's a pretty big fear of making other people uncomfortable, especially women.

Has anyone had the same fear and successfully dealt with it?

Would an antidote be to make others uncomfortable on purpose?

You don’t have a fear of discomfort, you feel the emotion of fear when you focus on that thought / thinking that way. ’Behind that thought’ is a thought about yourself, which feels off because the thought isn’t actually about yourself.  When you acknowledge that, it is simultaneously seen that this is true for everyone else, and you naturally couldn’t experience the emotion of fear about making someone else uncomfortable, because you’d be aware they’re feeling how / what they’re thinking, just like you. No antidote is needed to understand a misunderstanding. I’d use the scale and acknowledge & express jealousy, as lots of people have used the scale and successfully understood what they’re feeling. (Emotion is guidance, not something to ‘deal’ with.)

Nothing personal, this is to help and you’re free of course to take it or leave it… but nobody’s holding you back. Emotional ignorance is difficult & limiting. The admittance of the ignorance is already relieving. You’re not supposed to, or expected to know anything you don’t know. The recognition of not knowing, of ignorance, is not negative, it is relief. You don’t have fear (try to pinpoint where you have it), you just don’t understand it yet. Once you do, you won’t experience it. 

[Roy]

5 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Would an antidote be to make others uncomfortable on purpose?

The key here is to stop caring about how other people feel so much. I don't mean that in the way of "be an asshole". What I mean is try to be your most authentic and best version of yourself, and don't worry about whatever outcomes arise from that.

It's the fear that's holding you back from being that better version.

[Leo Gura]

The antidote is to go out and talk to lots of girls. You will become desensitized and stop caring.

You don't need to deliberately try to make anyone uncomfortable on purpose. It will happen by accident enough as you go out and approach. And you'll see it's not a big deal. You will also become cool and calibrated such that people enjoy your company more and girls appreciate your approaches.

Mostly you make people uncomfortable because you are uncomfortable with people. As you socialize a lot you will become a lot more comfortable and people will become a lot more comfortable with you.

A lot of times when I approach a girl these days, she and her friend will say, "Wait a minute, how do I know?" And I will say, "You don't." But it feels to her like I'm her long lost friend because the approach is so smooth.

If a girl's friend see's me approach her, she will often assume I am her long lost friend. Finally she will ask her girlfriend, "How do you know this guy?" and she will say, "I don't know him." And the friend is like, "What??!" Lol

You just gotta get smooth at this stuff.

[hamedsf]

approaching her will only take her 5 minutes if she's not interested and she wastes such a large quantity of time daily on other things why not you become a fraction of it. plus, if you care that much, you're never gonna be able to accomplish anything. 

[bejapuskas]

@PurpleTree  I am not assuming you are talking about romantic interactions, so I will try to provide a different perspective. I have definitely felt this fear, especially recently. As I aged, I realized I am growing in size, I can seem very serious and even scary. This usually fades when a person gets to know me more, but still, I do not assume people perceive me as friendly and chill straightaway. I guess it is not a big problem, but maybe you care about other people's comfort. You might fall into the trap of overthinking this. I think it will always inevitably keep happening, even if you try very hard, but you can certainly make progress by trying to see the world through the other person's eyes.

[Cathal]

@PurpleTree

Quote

Would an antidote be to make others uncomfortable on purpose?

no

Just become aligned with your authenticity because the thing is just see it like this, whether you try hard or give up will make 0 difference on the ratio of people you make comfortable or uncomfortable and the beauty in it is once you talk/meet with people while not hiding anything you feel far more relaxed and accepted and you can actually enjoy company and all of these fears don't bother you like they do when you're trying so hard

[Mada_]

I have experienced this fear.

My mind says things like "you're making her uncomfortable by talking to her", "people are going to hear you and think you're a predator, and then call the cops, or take pictures and put them on some Facebook page" when I'm doing daygame.

I understand consent and the physical escalation ladder so I know I'm not a predator.

I just do the approach anyway

[mememe]

@PurpleTree how much of this fear is tied in with situations in which others showed clear discomfort towards behavior of yours?

is this more connected to reactions of others or more connected to your selfesteem/limiting beliefs. how much of it would be connected to a change of behavior? and how do you change that completely regardless of other people being involved?

don‘t get me wrong, desensitation is one method in self actualization -  and in some cases probably also relevant (if your emotions stem from non rational fears, or hypersensitivity) but some stuff is connected by classical stimulus reaction chains.

Edited February 1, 2022 by mememe

[PurpleTree]

Thanks guys, great answers and something to ponder about

 

 

A few examples would be:

For example walking on a narrow sidewalk and for example a woman is going to pass me, then i might feel uncomfortable that she might feel uncomfortable.

 

Or for example i'm looking at someone could be in public transport etc. could be a woman, an anxious guy, a black person, a tourist or whatever, then  i might think if i look at them they'll feel judged or whatever and then feel uncomfortable.

 

Or there is a woman in public transport next to me for example and we road the pt for like 15 minutes and seen each other, then she presses the button to stop at the same stop i should get out, then i might think if i go out now too she might feel uncomfortable and feel "stalked" or whatever, i might even go to the next station to avoid that (those stations are short anyway and i'm between two stations so it doesn't really matter which one i take)

 

with dating stuff, approaching could make her uncomfortable. 

but especially making it sexual i fear might make her uncomfortable because it puts her on the spot, so then i often avoid doing that and wait until she makes it sexual which obviously also isn't great.

Edited February 6, 2022 by PurpleTree

[Kamo]

19 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Thanks guys, great answers and something to ponder about

 

 

A few examples would be:

For example walking on a narrow sidewalk and for example a woman is going to pass me, then i might feel uncomfortable that she might feel uncomfortable.

 

Or for example i'm looking at someone could be in public transport etc. could be a woman, an anxious guy, a black person, a tourist or whatever, then  i might think if i look at them they'll feel judged or whatever and then feel uncomfortable.

 

Or there is a woman in public transport next to me for example and we road the pt for like 15 minutes and seen each other, then she presses the button to stop at the same stop i should get out, then i might think if i go out now too she might feel uncomfortable and feel "stalked" or whatever, i might even go to the next station to avoid that (those stations are short anyway and i'm between two stations so it doesn't really matter which one i take)

 

with dating stuff, approaching could make her uncomfortable. 

but especially making it sexual i fear might make her uncomfortable because it puts her on the spot, so then i often avoid doing that and wait until she makes it sexual which obviously also isn't great.

Yeah I know what your talking about. What it sounds like your doing is living in a perspective of a perspective of yourself. Your understanding of emotion and human connection leads you to believe how people sense each others feelings, because you have noticed it in the past. So due to this, you feel uncomfortable because your anticipation of making them feel uncomfortable is uncomfortable. Your anticipating someone elses feelings before hand which is adding resistance to your own emotions. Then you become worried about them sensing this off you. This anticipatory fear is a thought the mind gets stuck on then sustains it, because what you resist, persist, this creates the uncomfortable emotions you feel and want to prevent others from sensing. There is basically a counterintuition going on, which is your desire to not make them feel uncomfortable around you, this is counterintuitively doing the opposite in your mind. Then fear of a self fulfilling prophecy (them sensing you/feeling uncomfortable) arises adding to your own resistance. So becoming aware of that entire process in your direct experience gives you some "letting go" over it reducing the amount the thought is stuck, loosening up how it feels. The less attention you give the thoughts the less momentum it will have over your emotions. Mindfulness and self introspection during these moments will help you cope with this, and allow your mind to resolve it naturally. You have good emotional intelligence and empathy so its not a bad thing this occurs, its just you want to try to accurately interpret what's really going on.

[PurpleTree]

On 7.2.2022 at 6:45 PM, Kamo said:

Yeah I know what your talking about. What it sounds like your doing is living in a perspective of a perspective of yourself. Your understanding of emotion and human connection leads you to believe how people sense each others feelings, because you have noticed it in the past. So due to this, you feel uncomfortable because your anticipation of making them feel uncomfortable is uncomfortable. Your anticipating someone elses feelings before hand which is adding resistance to your own emotions. Then you become worried about them sensing this off you. This anticipatory fear is a thought the mind gets stuck on then sustains it, because what you resist, persist, this creates the uncomfortable emotions you feel and want to prevent others from sensing. There is basically a counterintuition going on, which is your desire to not make them feel uncomfortable around you, this is counterintuitively doing the opposite in your mind. Then fear of a self fulfilling prophecy (them sensing you/feeling uncomfortable) arises adding to your own resistance. So becoming aware of that entire process in your direct experience gives you some "letting go" over it reducing the amount the thought is stuck, loosening up how it feels. The less attention you give the thoughts the less momentum it will have over your emotions. Mindfulness and self introspection during these moments will help you cope with this, and allow your mind to resolve it naturally. You have good emotional intelligence and empathy so its not a bad thing this occurs, its just you want to try to accurately interpret what's really going on.

Some great insights, thank you

[Kamo]

@PurpleTree Yeah it sucks, its weird this kind of thing even happens. But the more you study it and read books about thoughts, it becomes easier to deal with. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Kamo

[PurpleTree]

17 minutes ago, Kamo said:

@PurpleTree Yeah it sucks, its weird this kind of thing even happens. But the more you study it and read books about thoughts, it becomes easier to deal with. 

any particular book recommendations?

[bejapuskas]

On 7. 2. 2022 at 2:46 AM, PurpleTree said:

Thanks guys, great answers and something to ponder about

 

 

A few examples would be:

For example walking on a narrow sidewalk and for example a woman is going to pass me, then i might feel uncomfortable that she might feel uncomfortable.

 

Or for example i'm looking at someone could be in public transport etc. could be a woman, an anxious guy, a black person, a tourist or whatever, then  i might think if i look at them they'll feel judged or whatever and then feel uncomfortable.

 

Or there is a woman in public transport next to me for example and we road the pt for like 15 minutes and seen each other, then she presses the button to stop at the same stop i should get out, then i might think if i go out now too she might feel uncomfortable and feel "stalked" or whatever, i might even go to the next station to avoid that (those stations are short anyway and i'm between two stations so it doesn't really matter which one i take)

 

with dating stuff, approaching could make her uncomfortable. 

but especially making it sexual i fear might make her uncomfortable because it puts her on the spot, so then i often avoid doing that and wait until she makes it sexual which obviously also isn't great.

@PurpleTree Do not get defensive when you offend somebody. Try to sense whether it is right to apologize or no. Do not rationalize what you did while apologizing, even if you did not wanna do it. You can do really bad things unwantedly, it does not cancel the damage. When apologizing, it is the other person that matters, not you. Make sure that when you speak, your views are clearly not discriminatory, any mistake can trigger. (Think how easily straight people get sad when somebody mentions they cannot be proud of being straight, even though it does not even put them in danger) Educate yourself on as many topics as possible, so you can also understand intersectionality. Understand that one's identity is not too complex. You already spent so much time learning about the cisgender heterosexual amatonormative - you remember how things were not clear when you were a child and new to gender? Do not call somebody's identity a product of trauma. People who do this do not understand queer joy. Using the world black is not offensive, it depends on what it is combined with. Colour blindness does not see racism, so do not be racist, but do not assume somebody feels safe in a space, just because you "do not see their skin", which you do anyways. Be open minded. Some identities that are oppressed receive less recognition than others, or they might seem like they are not oppressed at first glance. (Non-binary trans, asexual, aromantic, caste, skin tone/colour...)

[puporing]

34 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

People who do this do not understand queer joy.

 Always enjoy reading your responses on this topic. Glad there're others out there that get it. (though I don't mind if one thinks it's "caused by" trauma, maybe "trauma" can contribute to someone playing with their gender identity by being a catalyst to lifting out of one's attachment to bio gender and whatever else 'normative' behavior/way of being, among other things like god realization, it's just a poor/incomplete and possibly not correct assumption depending on the individual).

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by puporing

[flowboy]

On 06/02/2022 at 10:16 PM, PurpleTree said:

Thanks guys, great answers and something to ponder about

 

 

A few examples would be:

For example walking on a narrow sidewalk and for example a woman is going to pass me, then i might feel uncomfortable that she might feel uncomfortable.

 

Or for example i'm looking at someone could be in public transport etc. could be a woman, an anxious guy, a black person, a tourist or whatever, then  i might think if i look at them they'll feel judged or whatever and then feel uncomfortable.

 

Or there is a woman in public transport next to me for example and we road the pt for like 15 minutes and seen each other, then she presses the button to stop at the same stop i should get out, then i might think if i go out now too she might feel uncomfortable and feel "stalked" or whatever, i might even go to the next station to avoid that (those stations are short anyway and i'm between two stations so it doesn't really matter which one i take)

 

with dating stuff, approaching could make her uncomfortable. 

but especially making it sexual i fear might make her uncomfortable because it puts her on the spot, so then i often avoid doing that and wait until she makes it sexual which obviously also isn't great.

The willingness to make people uncomfortable is directly aligned with that essence of manliness that a woman is looking for.

(I didn't say desire, I said willingness!)

I want you to know that there is no workaround, if you want to have satisfying relationships with women.

You can't ponder or think your way around this.

There's no way to completely avoid making someone very uncomfortable at times, being very misunderstood at times, being very disliked at times, and still be respected by women and attractive to them.

You have to grow into a man who is willing to be misunderstood and disliked and is okay with awkwardness, when it is aligned with his goal. Because his goal is aligned with the greater good. And so he trusts himself.

 

That's the first step. Accepting that this dreaded situation IS going to happen.

Unless you lock yourself up somewhere and don't pursue anything.

 

Then, how to dread it less?

That probably has something to do with releasing trauma.

I had to do a lot of trauma release (which means I had to do a lot of crying) to get rid of something like this.

(In my case it was more like a compulsive desire to please and to be liked and accepted by her)

Shadow work is a good way to do that.

There's many forms and modalities of it, you have to find some way that works for you.

I also have a video that can help:

@flume also has a video that can help:

And you can find many more resources that others can recommend.

The video above mentions Primal therapy, which is a great way.

Edited February 9, 2022 by flowboy

[PurpleTree]

11 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@PurpleTree Do not get defensive when you offend somebody. Try to sense whether it is right to apologize or no. Do not rationalize what you did while apologizing, even if you did not wanna do it. You can do really bad things unwantedly, it does not cancel the damage. When apologizing, it is the other person that matters, not you. Make sure that when you speak, your views are clearly not discriminatory, any mistake can trigger. (Think how easily straight people get sad when somebody mentions they cannot be proud of being straight, even though it does not even put them in danger) Educate yourself on as many topics as possible, so you can also understand intersectionality. Understand that one's identity is not too complex. You already spent so much time learning about the cisgender heterosexual amatonormative - you remember how things were not clear when you were a child and new to gender? Do not call somebody's identity a product of trauma. People who do this do not understand queer joy. Using the world black is not offensive, it depends on what it is combined with. Colour blindness does not see racism, so do not be racist, but do not assume somebody feels safe in a space, just because you "do not see their skin", which you do anyways. Be open minded. Some identities that are oppressed receive less recognition than others, or they might seem like they are not oppressed at first glance. (Non-binary trans, asexual, aromantic, caste, skin tone/colour...)

not feeling it but thanks for your answer anyway

1 hour ago, flowboy said:

The willingness to make people uncomfortable is directly aligned with that essence of manliness that a woman is looking for.

(I didn't say desire, I said willingness!)

I want you to know that there is no workaround, if you want to have satisfying relationships with women.

You can't ponder or think your way around this.

There's no way to completely avoid making someone very uncomfortable at times, being very misunderstood at times, being very disliked at times, and still be respected by women and attractive to them.

You have to grow into a man who is willing to be misunderstood and disliked and is okay with awkwardness, when it is aligned with his goal. Because his goal is aligned with the greater good. And so he trusts himself.

 

That's the first step. Accepting that this dreaded situation IS going to happen.

Unless you lock yourself up somewhere and don't pursue anything.

 

Then, how to dread it less?

That probably has something to do with releasing trauma.

I had to do a lot of trauma release (which means I had to do a lot of crying) to get rid of something like this.

(In my case it was more like a compulsive desire to please and to be liked and accepted by her)

Shadow work is a good way to do that.

There's many forms and modalities of it, you have to find some way that works for you.

I also have a video that can help:

@flume also has a video that can help:

And you can find many more resources that others can recommend.

The video above mentions Primal therapy, which is a great way.

Thanks dude. About the second part of your answer i often find these things really hard to get into. I watched a few videos about shadow work but i couldn't really get into it thus far.

I watched the videos you posted and i find it hard to get specific memories. Also there seems to be a big mix of emotions inside so it's hard to try and entangle them but i'll keep trying, also started trying the sedona method a few weeks ago and before that the letting go technique for months or a year. I think i'm pretty good at feeling my feelings but it's hard to let them go and i'll easily get triggered and accumulate new stubborn feelings and emotions.