Awareness Is Key

[Salvijus]

10 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

A shift that continued back and fourth between separation and non-separation for a while until it was abiding non-separation.

So the end of trying caused the union? What is this non-seperation you talk about?

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Salvijus

[WelcometoReality]

11 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Wow cool. So you just realized you could surrender effort?

How long were you seeking before that? And was that your last big realization or have you had others 

Surrender happened. Real surrender is not something you do. It's the giving up. You can't decide to give up because it wouldn't be a real giving up. ?

I have always had an interest in truth. But it wasn't until I had the realization that "the tree is not a tree, it just is" (realization that thoughts are not real) that I came in contact with spirituality. I got so scared by the realization because I subconsciously recognized that the ego wasn't real. The next thought I had was that I had to become something. So that led me to start with self actualization stuff, which led me to Leo, which led me to spirituality. After that maybe a year or two.

That's the only big realization I had. The I am/being. And then there's the non-being which isn't a realization.

[WelcometoReality]

55 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Any shift in conciousness?

Yes a shift.

55 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Any shift in energy?

The awakening was an intense release of energy. Blissful Happiness and laughter. After came alot of anger and sadness. Mostly anger.

55 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Did the suffering of desire came to an end?

Not with the awakening itself. Awakening is only the beginning and afterwards there is still alot of ego to let go of, desire, anger and fear.

55 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Did all internal conflict caused by desire gone away? 

No, it's only the beginning of the work. ?

56 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Did your personal sense of self died?

It died in a sense of no sensory separation. No longer a sense of self looking out from the body but the sense of self was still there in thought and feelings. After the realization the work is all about seeing the egoic energy in thoughts and feelings.

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

Did you expand into nondual state of presence?

Yes

[WelcometoReality]

40 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

So the end of trying caused the union? What is this non-seperation you talk about?

Surrender happened. It's not like I decided to stop trying. ?

You called it nondual state of presence.

[Salvijus]

@WelcometoReality interesing answers

[WelcometoReality]

9 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@WelcometoReality interesing answers

Interesting how? ?

[SOUL]

11 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@SOUL Ahh. Idk what to do, my instinct is to ask what do I do. But i guess thats the exact trap I'm in 

Yea, the mind/ego is always searching for activities to do, conditions to be met, understanding to attain, goals to achieve and on and on as if we don't already have awareness to abide in.

Being awareness just is which you have already expressed how you have experience of it but it's only the mind/ego that is distracting you from it and then giving you circumstances to seek to get 'back' to it when in reality it's always present 'now'.

I'm not sure what anyone can say that will have you stop searching for what you already have, even the explanations of it may be serving as a distraction.

Edited February 3, 2022 by SOUL

[Gianna]

11 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

surrender happens without an intention to make it happen. 

Yes, exactly. This is exactly how I would put it. 
@Raptorsin7, this is why it didn’t happen the second time even though you, “thought I was doing the same thing.” It didn’t happen because you had the intention to surrender when surrendering is void of all intention/effort. 

[Raptorsin7]

6 hours ago, SOUL said:

Yea, the mind/ego is always searching for activities to do, conditions to be met, understanding to attain, goals to achieve and on and on as if we don't already have awareness to abide in.

Being awareness just is which you have already expressed how you have experience of it but it's only the mind/ego that is distracting you from it and then giving you circumstances to seek to get 'back' to it when in reality it's always present 'now'.

I'm not sure what anyone can say that will have you stop searching for what you already have, even the explanations of it may be serving as a distraction.

This is why I like practices like shadow work etc. I think for each person depending on their egoic baggage it's more or less easy to surrender and just abide as awareness. It's why some people love psychidelics because it puts you in a state where it's easier to let go.

 

[Raptorsin7]

6 hours ago, Gianna said:

Yes, exactly. This is exactly how I would put it. 
@Raptorsin7, this is why it didn’t happen the second time even though you, “thought I was doing the same thing.” It didn’t happen because you had the intention to surrender when surrendering is void of all intention/effort. 

I wonder why its easiest to surrender on psychidelics, or at least for me right before bed 

[SOUL]

15 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

This is why I like practices like shadow work etc. I think for each person depending on their egoic baggage it's more or less easy to surrender and just abide as awareness. It's why some people love psychidelics because it puts you in a state where it's easier to let go.

 

Please don't think I'm being critical or dismissive when I say this but right there in the response is doing practices and seeking states. The mind/ego is very sly in how it uses the appeal of activity and conditions to keep us jumping through hoops and fire walled away from something as an appearance of separation from a goal or something to attain.

You have been on this forum a long time with many posts....eventually you will get tired of the game the mind/ego is using to keep the monkey dancing for peanuts and if so you may stop playing along and dancing to appease it. Or you may continue on for even longer trying to find the right mix of activity and conditions to attain an apparent elusive goal that in reality is always present.

I'll also say don't be frustrated with yourself and disturbed by not 'getting it', this is another trick of the mind/ego is creating a distraction from being awareness. Just be at peace with things as they are even if the mind/ego is generating all this activity and stimuli in attempt to grab the attention to justify it's identity. Eventually it will become natural to stay present no matter the conditions of the mind or body.

[Raptorsin7]

@SOUL That's fair I really don't know either way.

So you don't think something like shadow work or energy work is useful for reducing suffering and being more at peace 

[Salvijus]

13 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@SOUL That's fair I really don't know either way.

So you don't think something like shadow work or energy work is useful for reducing suffering and being more at peace 

In my opinion it all leads to the same place. If you surrender, there will be in increase of energy. And if you increase your energy, there will be surrender. They go together. If you get one you get the other also. That's why kriya yoga works. That's why surrender on psychedelics is easy imo because the energy is intense. 

In the end enlightenment is all about intensity of energy. The more intense one's energy is, the higher the awareness goes, the deeper the surrender goes also, the deeper the trancendens of ego goes aswell and the deeper the realizations go. All go together imo. Even purification of the mind or shadow work leads to the same results. That's why there so many spiritual paths but ultimately they all lead to the same place I would say. To the place of peak energy and peak energy means peak conciousnes/trancendence/ surrender etc.. That's how one can measure one's progress perhaps. Tho it's probably not the perfect way of measuring.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Salvijus

[Raptorsin7]

29 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

In my opinion it all leads to the same place. If you surrender, there will be in increase of energy. And if you increase your energy, there will be surrender. They go together. If you get one you get the other also. That's why kriya yoga works. That's why surrender on psychedelics is easy imo because the energy is intense. 

In the end enlightenment is all about intensity of energy. The more intense one's energy is, the higher the awareness goes, the deeper the surrender goes also, the deeper the trancendens of ego goes aswell and the deeper the realizations go. All go together imo. Even purification of the mind or shadow work leads to the same results. That's why there so many spiritual paths but ultimately they all lead to the same place I would say. To the place of peak energy and peak energy means peak conciousnes/trancendence/ surrender etc.. That's how one can measure one's progress perhaps. Tho it's probably not the perfect way of measuring.

That makes sense thanks. Yeah psychidelics make surrender much easier and more significant ime.

It's like every thought, movement of attention etc has such dramatic effects it's easier to recognize what really reduces suffering and what doesn't.

[SOUL]

14 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@SOUL That's fair I really don't know either way.

So you don't think something like shadow work or energy work is useful for reducing suffering and being more at peace 

Practices are pointers but implied in the pointer is that there is something to be pointing at that's separate. The mind/ego uses them to keep us separate from what already is. It's like all the stories we use to explain, the number of distractions the mind/ego creates is endless.

We can keep going round and round about wondering if this or that works or not but that's emblematic of the struggle the mind/ego uses to justify itself. Once you're done struggling you may just 'surrender', just cease efforting to make something that already is, it's the realization of being awareness.

[Salvijus]

The common thing that I notice in people who say 'I stopped trying, I'm already the awareness' is that it's just intelectual. The actual stopping and surrender is far far away from actuality. In my understanding, when the actual end of seeking happens, it's a state of absolute samadhi and stillness. It's absolute ego death and omniscience and infinity. Because ego can't survive without thought activity. And tremendous intensity of energy is there. So all these things is what indicates that one properly and genuinely surrendered the desire and effort. If that's not happening, in my understanding it's a fake surrender. Fake enlightenment can be called maybe.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Salvijus

[Zeroguy]

13 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

The common thing that I notice in people who say 'I stopped trying, I'm already the awareness' is that it's just intelectual. The actual stopping and surrender is far far away from actuality. In my understanding, when the actual end of seeking happens, it's a state of absolute samadhi and stillness. It's absolute ego death and omniscience and infinity. Because ego can't survive without thought activity. And tremendous intensity of energy is there. So all these things is what indicates that one properly and genuinely surrendered the desire and effort. If that's not happening, in my understanding it's a fake surrender. Fake enlightenment can be called maybe.

ego this,ego that.What is ego?

[Salvijus]

11 minutes ago, Zeroguy said:

What is ego?

'Identity with thoughts' I think is one definition but perhaps not the full definition.

To trancend ego is to trancend mind and it's activity and the identity with the body-mind. The deepest identity we have is the Seeker. 'I want to achieve something' this identity I call ego. If this 'I want' is surrendered, ego dies. Thought activity also dies. Because ego lives on 'I want' and all mental activity starts from there. If that is gone, then there's just pure awareness infinity nondual samadhi. If that's not happening then that could only mean one thing, that effort 'I want' has not been fully surrendered. Maybe partialy surrendered. But far far away from full and total surrender.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Salvijus

[Zeroguy]

5 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

'Identity with thoughts' I think is one definition but perhaps not the full definition.

To trancend ego is to trancend mind and it's activity and the identity with the body-mind. The deepest identity we have is the Seeker. 'I want to achieve something' this identity I call ego. If this 'I want' is surrendered, ego dies. Thought activity also dies. Because ego lives on 'I want' and all mental activity starts from there. If that is gone, then there's just pure awareness infinity nondual samadhi. If that's not happening then that could only mean one thing, that effort 'I want' has not been fully surrendered. Maybe partialy surrendered. But far far away from full and total surrender.

So what you suggest?

[Salvijus]

19 minutes ago, Zeroguy said:

So what you suggest?

Well I suggest to we stop seeking because seeking is the problem that gets us away from what we are. But the problem is, the seeking is happening unconsciously and involuntery. The seeking can only stop if the identity is fully broken with mind activity. For this to happen awareness has to be Sharp as a laser. This is where practice and all the spiritual disciplines come into play. There are many ways to brake the identity with the mind and stop seeking. Energy ways, yoga ways, chanting ways, devotional ways, cultivating awareness buddhists ways etc..

To stop seeking is not a question of an attitude, like today i descided to stop seeking and thats it bam, I'm enlightened. Lol no. Not like that. Mind is striving constantly to become something more, 'I want' is an never ending desire if one observes he can confirm this easily. 

To stop seeking is to stop all mind's activity. To stop seeking is total ego death. To stop seeking is to brake all identity with mind and expand into infinite consciouness. For this to happen there are many methods.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Salvijus