Does the "truths" from 5-meo-dmt are more True compared to Salvia just...

[CuriousityIsKey]

Does the "truths" from 5-meo-dmt are more True compared to Salvia just because they are more pleasant? What is the methodology by which one discerns ?       ? ? ? 

Edited January 27, 2022 by CuriousityIsKey

[Kamo]

These both induce state changes in consciousness. I have tried both and 5MeO drops the ego where as salvia it is still very much there. Salvia just doesnt compare in the level of insight you get from 5MeO. The methodology is based on your own interpretation, so no one can really tell you. The Truth speaks for itself in a sense.

[The Lucid Dreamer]

Different tools for different types of insight. 5-MeO-DMT is good for understanding there is no self, and that you are God, aka everything.  Salvia is good for figuring out that what manifests in reality is dependent on your state of consciousness, and that consciousness is capable of literally anything.

Edited January 30, 2022 by The Lucid Dreamer

[RMQualtrough]

I used Salvia a lot because I was obsessed with surrealism and hallucinations. It is just a crazy drug trip. You come down like "lol wtaf was that"... My friend smoked it and saw infinite rows of oranges and people falling over becoming oranges.

DMT, very rarely, can produce states of actual "awakening", as in, total ego dissolution like Leo discusses when he took 5-MeO-DMT. It's completely different, you don't come down from the latter like "lol damn that was a crazy drug trip". It's not just a delusional sense of "this is real" like on Salvia, but a knowing that something IS true. And not even years of sober reflection will change the fact you experienced something that was real (no, not the space clowns).

[The0Self]

I don't have much experience with salvia, but I have plenty of experience with both ketamine and 5-MeO-DMT -- they can uncover the same glimpses, but via radically different experiences.

[JuliusCaesar]

Salvia is more useful for practical spiritual work as it allows you to become anything. Whereas 5 MEO DMT is better suited to the intent of actualized.org's agenda which is to discover the true nature of the universe and the self. This is because 5 MEO obliterates the ego whereas Salvia replaces the ego with that of another(though they both induce ego death in some capacity, 5 MEO's is purer so to speak).

 

If you're considering doing Salvia, I advise you to chew the quid and not smoke it. Almost no one that smokes it has a good experience, and the Shamans who use it successfully for practical reasons also never smoke it and would think you're insane to try(as you'd offend the plant's spirit inducing an unproductive hellish experience).

[BipolarGrowth]

15 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

Salvia is more useful for practical spiritual work as it allows you to become anything. Whereas 5 MEO DMT is better suited to the intent of actualized.org's agenda which is to discover the true nature of the universe and the self. This is because 5 MEO obliterates the ego whereas Salvia replaces the ego with that of another(though they both induce ego death in some capacity, 5 MEO's is purer so to speak).

 

If you're considering doing Salvia, I advise you to chew the quid and not smoke it. Almost no one that smokes it has a good experience, and the Shamans who use it successfully for practical reasons also never smoke it and would think you're insane to try(as you'd offend the plant's spirit inducing an unproductive hellish experience).

I guess the plant’s spirit thinks I’m cooler than everyone else and wants to be pals since I had great experiences with it. I think it probably is better to chew it from what I’ve heard though. 

[ChrisZoZo]

@CuriousityIsKeyYou can know something absolutely if it's on saliva, 5-MEo-dmt or on oxygen. After absolute truth is met there is just a broadening of understanding you can't get more true than it.

 

[TRUTHWITHCAPITALT]

@CuriousityIsKey There is no such thing as more absolute truth?

It is either absolute Truth or not. 5Meo makes you infinite.

I have heard interesting things about Salvia but I doubt if it is at the same level with 5Meo when it comes to fully energetic non-dual awareness.

[The0Self]

On 1/30/2022 at 11:50 AM, RMQualtrough said:

I used Salvia a lot because I was obsessed with surrealism and hallucinations. It is just a crazy drug trip. You come down like "lol wtaf was that"... My friend smoked it and saw infinite rows of oranges and people falling over becoming oranges.

DMT, very rarely, can produce states of actual "awakening", as in, total ego dissolution like Leo discusses when he took 5-MeO-DMT. It's completely different, you don't come down from the latter like "lol damn that was a crazy drug trip". It's not just a delusional sense of "this is real" like on Salvia, but a knowing that something IS true. And not even years of sober reflection will change the fact you experienced something that was real (no, not the space clowns).

Between age 16 and 22, I would go on crazy visionary adventures with psychedelics -- seemingly met aliens, etc. It seems I hit some kind of event horizon at age 23 and from then on, psychedelics got about 50x stronger -- but no more visuals, only God / nonduality / infinity / pure ineffability.

n,n-DMT is no more visual than any other psychedelics for me now (well, as of about a year ago), it's just the same kind of "God blast" that 5-MeO-DMT gives except a little weirder feeling. No more aliens (and there definitely used to be).

 

TLDR psychedelics can change over time. I used to get fully immersive visuals off a couple hundred ug LSD-25 -- to the point where I'd see angels shooting me with bows and arrows. When the trips got stronger, the visuals stopped, as did any sense of other-ness.

So ime, for instance, to say one chem is more visual than another, kind of doesn't even resonate here anymore. Idk.

Edited February 6, 2022 by The0Self

[RMQualtrough]

@The0Self I smoked a small amount of Salvia a year or so back and I could feel the pins and needles place it was pulling me into, the same thing for me. DMT completely changed over long term usage, it does something now that I can't face or describe. Flushed it all.

[Tristan12]

45 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Between age 16 and 22, I would go on crazy visionary adventures with psychedelics -- seemingly met aliens, etc. It seems I hit some kind of event horizon at age 23 and from then on, psychedelics got about 50x stronger -- but no more visuals, only God / nonduality / infinity / pure ineffability.

what you said happened after 23 sounds a lot like how Leo describes his psychedelic experiences. I wonder if its common for people to reach a point in their spiritual development where psychedelics have this affect on them where they become a lot more sensitive to them, visuals pretty much go away and it is just infinity and God consciousness most of the time. 

[Breakingthewall]

@RMQualtrough You have never tried 5 meo if I'm not mistaken. From what I've read about you I think you should. 5 meo is a full opening. It's not a psychedelic, it's something that makes you disappear and leaves an empty hole where you used to be. this hole can be perceived....by itself? I could not say, there is no perceiver. there is only the unfathomable emptiness. As I was saying, it can be perceived as absence, nothing, empty eternity, which for me is quite horrible, or as infinite being, brightness of total love without limits, I mean, you. this second experience makes you change. it fills you, makes you open, willing to give yourself, to accept reality. fullness, happiness. It is not a hallucination of a psychedelic, it is the demolition of the ego barriers that allow what you really are to manifest for a moment. later the ego returns, but the brightness does not go out. 

For me, the way to a real opening is to do it several days in a row, 2 or 3. The first time is usually a terrifying void experience. the second, that emptiness can be tolerated...by whom? I guess the ego is still lurking there, even if it doesn't seem like it. the third the void opens.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[The0Self]

4 hours ago, Tristan12 said:

what you said happened after 23 sounds a lot like how Leo describes his psychedelic experiences. I wonder if its common for people to reach a point in their spiritual development where psychedelics have this affect on them where they become a lot more sensitive to them, visuals pretty much go away and it is just infinity and God consciousness most of the time. 

My intuition is that it seems to have something to do with the character's involvement in the story. Though that's really not a great way to word it. Not the involvement per se, but the degree to which the apparent character is liable to be associated with the apparent arising of held beliefs that aren't true. For instance, there is no belief crazy enough to be seen here as ultimately more false than any other, since they're just all clearly an appearance of the infinite, which has absolutely no limits. The visuals seemed to go away, and even get less and less over time, as there was a concomitant fading-out of the curious and very general quality of "knowing things."

It's like when there's nothing more amazing than whatever seems to appear already, the psychedelic doesn't have to wow you with a bunch of visuals and entities and journeys from the subconscious, it just takes you directly to the heart of the matter -- reality. Kind of.

It's in the story, but that sort of event horizon that was crossed at ~23 is what I'd associate with the beginning of the path of consciousness-expansion (or maybe call it the first glimpse of God-realization). But the beginning of the enlightenment path didn't happen until several years later, despite thinking that I was surely already on it. Again, totally in the story, but yeah that is what seemed to happen here.

Edited February 7, 2022 by The0Self

[Tristan12]

1 hour ago, The0Self said:

It's like when there's nothing more amazing than whatever seems to appear already, the psychedelic doesn't have to wow you with a bunch of visuals and entities and journeys from the subconscious, it just takes you directly to the heart of the matter -- reality. Kind of.

Interesting

[The0Self]

3 hours ago, Tristan12 said:

Interesting

I’ll also add, it seems to be directly (almost precisely) correlated with what I would describe as “background gratitude.”

[Oppositionless]

Every experience is Absolute Truth 

[Kamo]

@The0Self @Tristan12

On 2/6/2022 at 4:36 PM, Tristan12 said:

what you said happened after 23 sounds a lot like how Leo describes his psychedelic experiences. I wonder if its common for people to reach a point in their spiritual development where psychedelics have this affect on them where they become a lot more sensitive to them, visuals pretty much go away and it is just infinity and God consciousness most of the time. 

Yeah i experienced this at 23 as well. I intuited its the age where most people are naturally evolved enough to facilitate deeper insight into reality/self. But it takes many more years to understand the sights that are experienced at such a young age.