Criticism of God

[How to be wise]

This is a criticism of the God that Neale Donald Walsch spoke with. When I read the book, I assumed that everything God was talking about was correct, since he’s God. But I’ve noticed things he said that are factually false. For example, he said “You eat animal fat and wonder why you have clogged arteries.” I’ve studied many health books, and they debunk the idea that saturated fat (fat from animals) causes clogged arteries. This was simply a misconception of the past. Why didn’t God know that animal fat doesn’t clog your arteries? It makes you wonder if it really was God that Neale was speaking to.

[Leo Gura]

Any so-called communication with God is going to be colored and corrupted by the human mind involved in the communication.

For example, if you were a Southern plantation owner communicating with God in the 1850s, God might tell you that the white race is more intelligent than the black race. Because that's a deep bias of your mind.

Because YOU ARE GOD!

If you believe that whites are more intelligent than blacks, you're creating that reality for yourself and even God cannot help you.

[Thought Art]

32 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

This is a criticism of the God that Neale Donald Walsch spoke with. When I read the book, I assumed that everything God was talking about was correct, since he’s God. But I’ve noticed things he said that are factually false. For example, he said “You eat animal fat and wonder why you have clogged arteries.” I’ve studied many health books, and they debunk the idea that saturated fat (fat from animals) causes clogged arteries. This was simply a misconception of the past. Why didn’t God know that animal fat doesn’t clog your arteries? It makes you wonder if it really was God that Neale was speaking to.

Sure, but many nutritionist also say that animal fat and processed meats clog arteries. 

How do you know those books are accurate, truthful and not biased? What science have you done yourself? 

Not all nutritionist agree so, now we come into the problem of belief and authority. Which idea in the mind of God about clogged arteries is correct? What are the nuances? 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Thought Art

[Guest EmptyVase]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you believe that whites are more intelligent than blacks, you're creating that reality for yourself.

This makes it sound like as if they were actually more intelligent than blacks. I mean, in a racist mindset, blacks actually appear less intelligent to the racist ego. But it's first and foremost a belief, which creates your actual experience of reality.

Just because someone beliefs and actually experiences blacks as less intelligent doesn't mean that blacks across the board are less intelligent.

Hope this clears up any potential misunderstanding on the subtleties, for anyone reading.

Edited January 27, 2022 by EmptyVase

[Thought Art]

2 minutes ago, EmptyVase said:

This makes it sound like as if they were actually more intelligent than blacks. I mean, in a racist mindset, blacks actually appear less intelligent to the racist ego. But it's first and foremost a belief, which creates your actual experience of reality.

Just because someone beliefs and actually experiences blacks as less intelligent doesn't mean that blacks across the board are less intelligent.

Yeah, theres a bit of a logical fallacy there Leo. Just because I believe xyz is true doesn't make it true. Just means I live and act as if it were true.  

Edited January 27, 2022 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, EmptyVase said:

This makes it sound like as if they were actually more intelligent than blacks. I mean, in a racist mindset, blacks actually appear less intelligent to the racist ego. But it's first and foremost a belief, which creates your actual experience of reality.

Just because someone beliefs and actually experiences blacks as less intelligent doesn't mean that blacks across the board are less intelligent.

Hope this clears up any potential misunderstanding on the subtleties, for anyone reading.

The way you frame it is as though there are black people floating around in the some external objective space outside your dream. There is no such thing.

Black people do not exist anywhere else but in your mind.

[Thought Art]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The way you frame it is as though there are black people floating around in the some external objective space outside your dream. There is no such thing.

Black people do not exist anywhere else but in your mind.

Sometimes when you speak like this (which I find you do more on the forum than in your videos) it waters down a lot of the political talk you've done. Like, episode on conscious politics for example.

God seems to be dreaming as if there are black people outside of my bubble of experience with their own bubble of experience. They are just as smart as anyone else. There seems to be a history of other people doing stuff that I didn't do.

Sure, it's just what God is dreaming in it's mind. But, your almost in ungraspable territory where everything simply is as qualia in the infinite void.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Thought Art

[CodyXarex]

42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Any so-called communication with God is going to be colored and corrupted by the human mind involved in the communication.

For example, if you were a Southern plantation owner communicating with God in the 1850s, God might tell you that the white race is more intelligent than the black race. Because that's a deep bias of your mind.

Because YOU ARE GOD!

If you believe that whites are more intelligent than blacks, you're creating that reality for yourself and even God cannot help you.

That sounds like a great way to portray God in a book or movie or show. As a character who is the REAL GOD, and people know it and ask Him/Her for advice, but they always refuse because they don't want to influence them, and every time on the rare occasion that they DO give advice or tell the Truth, the people listening to Them will almost always, seemingly anomalously, go and do something completely different, usually devilish, only for Zim to say: "That is not what I said to do at all, wtf?"

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Sometimes when you speak like this (which I find you do more on the forum than in your videos) it waters down a lot of the political talk you've done. Like, episode on conscious politics for example.

Yeah, because this thread is asking about God. It is not about practical political matters.

If I was speaking about politics I would not be dragging God into it.

But when you want to understand how communication with God happens, that requires looking at reality in a much deeper way that takes into account how your mind creates reality.

Quote

God seems to be dreaming as if there are black people outside of my bubble of experience with their own bubble of experience. They are just as smart as anyone else.

It seems that way TO YOU because that's what you're dreaming. If you were a white supremacist it would not seem to you that black people are as smart as anyone else.

You are begging the question. You are assuming an objective reality which just so happens to match your subjective reality. How convenient.

[Raptorsin7]

@Leo Gura So is there any truth to intelligence hsave a genetic component?

Haven't you said that even spirtual ability is related to genetics?

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Leo Gura So is there any truth to intelligence hsave a genetic component?

Haven't you said that even spirtual ability is related to genetics?

Of course intelligence has a huge genetic component. If your genetics were different you would be mule.

But that doesn't mean there is a significant difference between blacks and whites.

[Raptorsin7]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course intelligence has a huge genetic component.

But that doesn't mean there is a significant difference between blacks and whites.

But if there's a huge genetic component then wouldn't it make sense there would be a difference between all groups? Even if it's not significant.

You're basically saying intelligence is largely influenced by genetics, but whatever genetics cause it are negligible between groups. That doesn't make sense to me.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

But if there's a huge genetic component then wouldn't it make sense there would be a difference between all groups? Even if it's not significant 

Obviously there are differences between every human and group of humans.

But the way that low IQ is blamed on race is fallacious because IQ has a huge environmental and economic component. The IQ gap could be closed with better nutrition, less toxins in the environment, fairer schooling, fairer economics, etc.

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, because this thread is asking about God. It is not about practical political matters.

If I was speaking about politics I would not be dragging God into it.

But when you want to understand how communication with God happens, that requires looking at reality in a much deeper way that takes into account how your mind creates reality.

It seems that way TO YOU because that's what you're dreaming. If you were a white supremacist it would not seem to you that black people are as smart as anyone else.

You are begging the question. You are assuming an objective reality which just so happens to match your subjective reality. How convenient.

1. That doesn’t seem holistic to me. Who else is doing politics but God

2. If God tells a white dude he’s that smartest ever and then he goes off into the world making political decisions from that… as the op is sharing here it’s true to HIM. In fact this thread brings together science, politics, belief, mystical insight, God, interpretation… was it really god or a delusion or misinterpretation?

3. I’m not assuming anything other than what I observe around me. People of all colours seem to be pretty intelligent. There’s stats and everything. But, I get that someone can filter out that info or depending on where they are in history have certain beliefs. Your subjective beliefs don’t change all facts. Being a ‘maga’ may make trump the best leader to you. But, that’s subjective. 
 

4. the two last paragraphs seems to contradict on some level. Obviously what someone believes or ‘dreams’ is ‘real’ to them. But it’s not actually real it’s just a mental model or program they run. Reality and perspective is relative. 
 

So, are we not imaging an overlay of belief onto an objective ‘physical’  reality when is totally subjective to what is observing it? 
 

anyway, I feel like I’m not wording this well. Night fellas

not arguing just wrapping head around thread ?  

not sure if I’m on the right page

Edited January 27, 2022 by Thought Art

[Raptorsin7]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Obviously there are differences between every human and group of humans.

But the way that low IQ is blamed on race is fallacious because IQ has a huge environmental and economic component. The IQ gap could be closed with better nutrition, less toxins in the environment, fairer schooling, fairer economics, etc.

The total gap isn't blamed on race, but I think the Charles Murray argument would be part of the gap is explained by genetics, whereas the assumption is that the entire gap is explained by economic, education, etc injustice.

Have you looked into this extensively or is this mostly speculation?

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

the Charles Murray argument would be part of the gap is explained by genetics

Some tiny part may be, but it could also be in the opposite direction. It could be that blacks are more intelligent than whites, once all the environmental factors are addressed.

If there is a genetic race gap it seems insignificant and unworth talking about because it just feeds racist tropes.

[Raptorsin7]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Some tiny part may be, but it could also be in the opposite direction. It could be that blacks are more intelligent than whites, once all the environmental factors are addressed.

If there is a genetic race gap it seems insignificant and unworth talking about because it just feeds racist tropes.

Yeah that's the thing this topic can't be resolved in the near term because it's so toxic.

If the other side of that equation is true the researchers will be branded racist

[Guest EmptyVase]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The way you frame it is as though there are black people floating around in the some external objective space outside your dream. There is no such thing.

Black people do not exist anywhere else but in your mind.

I see. I mixed up two different perspectives into one worldview. Which is probably fine and even desirable, as long as you can switch between the views and don't confuse them like I just did.

At the same time, the way you framed it sounded to me as if the racist worldview was universally true, as if it was true for others. But I also see how 'other' is a belief of my own worldview.

The perspective that black people are floating around in some external space is as subjectively true as blacks being less intelligent. At the end of the day, it's both subjective and it's both belief. Words, words, words.. always confusing. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by EmptyVase