Why I Think Most People Should Give Up On Enlightenment. For Now!

[Dodo]

26 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

Again, agree over all, however...
The "healing of the ego" aka building a new house, since the last one was on fire, IS part of the path if you are walking int correctly.
but egos like to skip this part And they go like. K.. Enlighttenment!! OH I SOO KNOW WHAT IT IS!! IMA GET IT @Dodoster (not pointing any fingers but... oops I am)
But no... you know shit, you know nothing, you just switched one dysfunctional belief system, replaced it with deluded spiritual beliefs, and never dealt with the core of your wounded ego.

You may argue and feel bad about other opinions, but it is how it is. I like that I am pushing your buttons and it's funny that you think you know who I am or what is being said here. 

I will never reach your Enlightenment, simply because you've put it on a pedestal that no-one can reach. Look at this belief. You are the one claiming to know what Enlightenment is due to what you've heard. I have no problem being an unenlightened Ego. The pointing fingers game is fun :))) 

 

PS: You claim you haven't reached Enlightenment yet you know that I'm the one who's wrong? Even if I am, you cannot claim it so passionately my "duuuude"

Edited January 13, 2017 by Dodoster

[Martin123]

3 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

it's funny that you think you know who I am or what is being said here. K! =D

I will never reach your Enlightenment, simply because you've put it on a pedestal that no-one can reach. Look at this belief. I see... I totally said this haha this is not your projection at all hahahaha. Oh man =D.

Dude you even apologized to me for preaching in a msg and 10minutes after that u were back at it again.
LIKE WTF

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

Dude you even apologized to me for preaching in a msg and 10minutes after that u were back at it again.
LIKE WTF

Who was preaching?

 

PS: Maybe what you thought as preaching after I had apologized to you, was not preaching and it was your projeection

Edited January 13, 2017 by Dodoster

[Dodo]

36 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

@Dodoster duuuuuude. Like. Seriously stahp.
You intellectualize enlightenment and then preach it.
Justh...chill... do your self-enquiry... see where it takes you... talk to me in a year.

So anyway, I wasn't even answering to you, you should look into that judgemental mind you've got going on. It's really immature behaviour, sorry I have to say... We are here to have a grown up conversation. If you have something constructive to say, please do. Otherwise, maybe send me private messages for savage attacks

[Martin123]

@Wormon Blatburm Seek god, not preach, attach yourself to, or imagine god.

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, Wormon Blatburm said:

This is exactly what Leo said is a "zen devil" or Makyo or whatever. You've had a couple of experiences but you haven't studied enlightenment at ALL. And now you think you can just preach your own ideas about it.

It's dangerous dude, because this is a real path and not something you should base on a couple experiences you get. If people believe they can do this they are mislead

@Wormon Blatburm OK I will conclude by Enlightenment you mean something different than me. To me it is simply realizing what you truly seek is peace of mind and starting your journey with the right goal. All I need for this practise is to rest in being, in the place before thought, doubt and belief. 

For some that is not enough, and I will never understand why. I do not need to imagine God or attach to God @Martin123, I've never been one to believe or have blind faith.

Neither Left nor Right is truly correct - the Middle is where we need to aim, from wherever we are. Some need to go to the right, others need to go to the left, depending on where they are. But some need to stay where they are - those who have found the power of being. 

Any experience is experience of infinity, we are just not appreciating it as such, because lost in thoughts. No one's to blame. I am not enlightened, I am just sharing my understanding and experience, not expecting you to kiss my feet for being right and call me the enlightened one. 

This is why I am against this thread - basically telling people that they should give up on going after peace of mind... Madness.

If by Enlightenment you mean some figment of your imagination where you meet with God and he tells you how awesome you are or something, then sure, give up on that, because it's only mind.

[Martin123]

@Dodoster You contradict yourself in so many ways. Just stop pls. Its not like it helps anyone. I just pointed out to you that youre attached to your preaching. Take it or leave it. 
No need to be constantly in reaction.

[Martin123]

@Dodoster ANd why the fuck do you want everyone to define enlightenment holy moly.
We're on actualized.org I think all of us mean the motherfucking same thing when they say enlightenment.
Now ofc. it not something imaginable so that is where we can differ
but seriously.
STOP!
You're crazy man!

[Dodo]

21 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

@Dodoster ANd why the fuck do you want everyone to define enlightenment holy moly.
We're on actualized.org I think all of us mean the motherfucking same thing when they say enlightenment.
Now ofc. it not something imaginable so that is where we can differ
but seriously.
STOP!
You're crazy man!

Real question is why do you want me to stop so badly... Also man, embrace contradictions, don't get so wrapped up in every word to look for something to bite at, but instead try to see what is being said. Also really work on that judgemental part of you - have a look around, there are threads about judging on this very forum that can help you out. We're in this together.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Dodoster

[Martin123]

@Dodoster Oh u so caring I love it
So first you try to explain to me what enlightenment is
then you explain to me what it isn't 
and now you so kind that you want me to get rid of my judgmentality.
EVENTHOUGH I did not ask for help! Now that is true kindness <3.

[Dodo]

15 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

@Dodoster Oh u so caring I love it
So first you try to explain to me what enlightenment is
then you explain to me what it isn't 
and now you so kind that you want me to get rid of my judgmentality.
EVENTHOUGH I did not ask for help! Now that is true kindness <3.

My mistake calling it enlightenment. I was wrong. I was talking about a state of continuous peace no matter what is happening in life, not enlightenment. Had the two mixed up indeed. Not being sarcastic. Of course here on this forum we refer to Enlightenment as something else, the experience of the undefinable and what follows (a profound shift in awareness) etc.. 

Your Ego may or may not allow anything I say be of use, but that does not mean I should not write it. It's my duty to act out the divine will no matter what. You should not judge and condemn and I am not saying this as a judgement, but because you are in a forum about fixing problems exactly like this one - no point playing around.

Also there is no point denying truth only because of the vehicle it is sent by. By now just by seeing my name on the post, you know you will be against it, no matter what is said. You should see the problem there. You're acting out with a deep belief that there is a doer. Start cutting. Be aware of it.

When you cut Judgement/Blame, Pride and Guilt, your Enlightenment journey will surely be easier (call it intuition). The root of Judgement/Blame, Pride and Guilt is the belief that there is a doer.

Don't let your Ego boss you round. It's time for you to start self-enquiry.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Dodoster

[SBB4746]

Truth is enlightenment is really simple and nothing extraordinary about it, most people on this forum don't even want it because they love taking there ego seriously. Thats why its so hard for most egos to accept it, because 'you' really don't get anything from it. It's just the realization that you are awareness (which you have always been) and that you don't have any control of the content that arises in your mind. Therefore your ego and thoughts don't even really change after enlightenment realization sorry to say, however there won't be any need to take any of it seriously. 

Edited January 13, 2017 by SBB4746

[Martin123]

56 minutes ago, SBB4746 said:

most people on this forum don't even want it because they love taking there ego seriously. 

Hence spirituality as an escape as I mentioned before. 

[SBB4746]

@Martin123 Yeah it would be for a lot of people (as it was for me), but I don't think thats a bad thing. I was one of the people who had a very screwed up ego due to upbringing, not being able to relate to people and addiction. Continuously doing all the self-inquiry type practices caused some intense moments of anxiety and I felt like a was going insane like you mention. However I just endured it all because I was fed up with my ego pushing me around all the time. After my ego finally giving up and a series of awakenings, I have no regrets of taking that sort of direct route.

[Martin123]

@SBB4746 Interesting. Thank you.
For me it is strange to relate to this kind of evolution. Enlightenment has never been the thing I have been after even though I have already gone through intense purification.
I am slowly starting to think that the post is irelevant. However there are some that keep themselves in delusions longer that it is needed simply due to lack of self-honesty. But as it seems the post is ineffective for those anywho... Oh well... I literally created it to kill some time before a lecture. It was much more fun than I expected hehe.

[key]

3 hours ago, Dodoster said:

I am not enlightened

Hehehe, the most truest thing you've ever said 

[Aware]

Enlightenment.

Many people fail to see how to get there. Most often they cannot even see the natural world "outside" of them as being law based. 

1. Species adapt according to the changing conditions.
2. Those favored by nature, are selected due to natural selection, the strongest may reproduce.
3. Sexual selection, is the drive force of adaptation.

Now, understand, that this is law based. This is however the evolution theory, only without the becoming "more complex" over time.

Understand, that these laws, these natural laws, work also for inside of us.

1. Mind changes the fastest of all phenomenon.
2. Sense of self is sustained due to sense gratification in the given moment.
3. Attachment to ones desires, is the drive force of sense of self, leading to personhood, sustaining lawlessness as a result.

 

If you look at the first and second group, then actually you see just, adaptation, that unfolds due to attachment.

Understand that therefor, due to that adaptation is, chance is not. Chance thinking is therefor a result of previous actions, and the action one still is in, which is sustaining and strengthening this belief, that again lead to its results over time.

Understand that both inside and outside, is empty in nature equally. All things are therefor temporary in nature. If this is the case, then see clearly that if not a single phenomenon is asking for any of your approval, is not asking for any explanation, is temporary in nature, is empty in nature... Then what is the basis of you, that supposed to have this free will?

You might now clearly see, that everything you are, is a result, at the same time being in action, and being accumulating. Therefor the path to enlightenment due to that all phenomenon are temporary in nature and therefor empty in their nature, and are therefor a composite, is as clear as the scientific method is concerning the "outer world" and its laws. To become enlightened, is as clear as becoming an additional scientist. However, not all become a scientist. And even less become enlightened.

Imagine people become scientists just because they randomly study. Its ridiculous really. The same can be said about becoming enlightened.

Go educate yourself about Darwin, cut out the "becoming more complex, or chance being the governor" and start to understand that both inside and outside, this whole discern does not exist, because all phenomenon, both inside us and outside us, are equally empty and therefor law based (everything leads to its according results based on the circumstances it arose from, and ceases to exist due to its impermanent nature). Its therefor wrong to conclude: Scientists are scientists because they have had an academic study. Science means "knowledge". However, there is also direct knowledge, which is pure science. This is however the study of both the inside and outside phenomenon, and the relationship between one another in sense of discerning. A science student, uses books, observation material etc... Understand that a noble Student of the pure sciences (that I see as way to enlightenment), uses his own mind as the observation material, and the laws of nature (concerning the changing conditions both inside and outside) as the book to learn from, ignorance is therefor seen as: Sustaining of lawlessness. Or better said, ones thinking to have a choice.

Its already difficult to become an additional scientist. Let along someone who understands both the inner and outer by the same laws an additional scientist works with concerning observable material. The difference is, an additional scientist is due to an academic study not free of craving, but must be able to explain the "outer" world.

To succeed as the noble student of the pure sciences (becoming enlightened), one must get rid of craving. And must therefor study sufficiently, seeing inner and outer world equally empty due to its nature, and apply this by living up to this, in order to clear "choice thinking," the sustaining of lawlessness, the gambling game.

Or can be said as followed: Adaptation (both inner and outer), is one with suffering. There is only suffering.
Therefor, living in accordance, canceling out choice thinking, ignorance, sustaining of lawlessness, then one is one with suffering... Then, if one is one with suffering, no longer attached to comparing, how then suffering?

Edited January 15, 2017 by Aware

[pluto]

Enlightenment comes naturally, everything is in divine flow.

You can obviously make progress towards it but eventually you will see when you do reach that state that everything you did was leading you up to that phase and sometimes some people need more suffering, more experiences, more darkness, more heartbreaks to fully grasp, embrace, appreciate and express the light.