Why I Think Most People Should Give Up On Enlightenment. For Now!

[Martin123]

@Leo Gura Thanks that's what I've been wondering about for some time.

[WaveInTheOcean]

Everyone should stop seeking enlightenment like it just "ONE" life-changing experience that needs to happen during  meditation/contemplation and then BOOM: You're enlightened. 

This is one big mistake to believe this will ever happen. A hoax. A biiiiiiiiiiiig trap. 

Truth is: we're all enlightened in our ground-state. Ground state = a innocent child not yet affected by the social loops/cultural egos/society.

Then we grow up and unconsciously incorporate all that and identifies with all that.

Now it's true: Our brain is more evolved when we are adults. Higher capacity for logical thinking. Higher capacity for abstraction. Higher capacity for "knowing stuff"... Higher capacity for awareness.

All these "abilities"/capacties : they are there all the time and its with those one should start the road to enlightenment.

What has to be done then? Unlearning. Unlearn/detach/stop identifying with all that has influenced you since your ground state (innocent child).

How does one start on this journey? By first acknowleding that one is ignorant (= the beginning to true open-mindedness.) This is a proces. all i can say is read "the book of not knowning" by Peter Ralston.

Next step? Contemplate / be alone with yourself / study yourself from this state of of pure 'not-knowning'.

Next step? Now the magic happens, now the real enlightenment game has begun, as you can use your high capacity for logical thinking (causality), abstraction and awareness to study yourself (=the mind+the nature of your true self) without being biased as you have been whole your adult life til now (because now you have unlearned urself / acknowledged that you're an ignorant motherfucker).

Tbh differentiating between "ego" and "personality" ... I don't like this.

For me... "mind" / "personality" / "ego" ..it's words refering to the same: the complex constant stream of pattern of thoughts/sensations that create the false self.

False self because the mind/ego most of the time very convincingly makes the True Self (awareness) feel like it is not awareness/nothingness but instead that body-mind-soul-thingness inside the head.

So wisdom comes from "knowing" that you are ignorant and that existance is mystical as fuck.

Some say enlightenment is all about getting rid of the ego.

But as all that have the slightest understanding of non-duality/reality knows, then making such a big statement about something must also mean that the opposite statement:

"Enlightenment is all about developing a ego with high awareness and lots of wisdom ("great ego") " must be just as true.

Now think about that and how it can be that both statements are equally true  

[Dodo]

43 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Everyone should stop seeking enlightenment like it just "ONE" life-changing experience that needs to happen during  meditation/contemplation and then BOOM: You're enlightened. 

This is one big mistake to believe this will ever happen. A hoax. A biiiiiiiiiiiig trap. 

Truth is: we're all enlightened in our ground-state. Ground state = a innocent child not yet affected by the social loops/cultural egos/society.

Then we grow up and unconsciously incorporate all that and identifies with all that.

Now it's true: Our brain is more evolved when we are adults. Higher capacity for logical thinking. Higher capacity for abstraction. Higher capacity for "knowing stuff"... Higher capacity for awareness.

All these "abilities"/capacties : they are there all the time and its with those one should start the road to enlightenment.

What has to be done then? Unlearning. Unlearn/detach/stop identifying with all that has influenced you since your ground state (innocent child).

How does one start on this journey? By first acknowleding that one is ignorant (= the beginning to true open-mindedness.) This is a proces. all i can say is read "the book of not knowning" by Peter Ralston.

Next step? Contemplate / be alone with yourself / study yourself from this state of of pure 'not-knowning'.

Next step? Now the magic happens, now the real enlightenment game has begun, as you can use your high capacity for logical thinking (causality), abstraction and awareness to study yourself (=the mind+the nature of your true self) without being biased as you have been whole your adult life til now (because now you have unlearned urself / acknowledged that you're an ignorant motherfucker).

Tbh differentiating between "ego" and "personality" ... I don't like this.

For me... "mind" / "personality" / "ego" ..it's words refering to the same: the complex constant stream of pattern of thoughts/sensations that create the false self.

False self because the mind/ego most of the time very convincingly makes the True Self (awareness) feel like it is not awareness/nothingness but instead that body-mind-soul-thingness inside the head.

So wisdom comes from "knowing" that you are ignorant and that existance is mystical as fuck.

Some say enlightenment is all about getting rid of the ego.

But as all that have the slightest understanding of non-duality/reality knows, then making such a big statement about something must also mean that the opposite statement:

"Enlightenment is all about developing a ego with high awareness and lots of wisdom ("great ego") " must be just as true.

Now think about that and how it can be that both statements are equally true  

Unenlightened is enjoyer, enlightened is a super enjoyer

I agree fully with your post and want to add that people should lighten up about enlightenment. It's not candy, it is simply the noticing in any experience of the thing that is always there and can never not be there, which should bring joy.

It's there even when the mind is saying it doesn't get it or that it is not there. This is only another belief/doubt to become conscious of and let go of.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Dodoster

[Aware]

4 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Everyone should stop seeking enlightenment like it just "ONE" life-changing experience that needs to happen during  meditation/contemplation and then BOOM: You're enlightened. 

You are ruining their day!! Don't you see their sad faces when reading such things, readying to strike back after their little dip?

4 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

So wisdom comes from "knowing" that you are ignorant and that existance is mystical as fuck.

Stop doing this, can't you see? You take all the fun out of it for them... IT must be like a product in the supermarket that has beautiful colors, happy faces on it and extremely tempting like you see in commercials, otherwise they don't buy it.

==========================

 

 

Here for those who truly think they have it all figured out, but don't live up to it, surely they can't answer these questions, and are most definitely not willing to get a critical review after they gave it a definition if they just give it fast a definition they saw somewhere on tv, a book or elsewhere, just counting someone else's money.

What is Ego?

What is personality?

What is the origin of Ego?

What is the origin of Personality?

What is the end of Ego?

What is the end of personality?

What it is the actual trigger leading to such ends?

 

"I agree that people first should awaken, then do personal development"
Here, for those who truly think like this: 

 

What is awakening?

What is development?

What is the origin of awakening?

What is the end of awakening?

What causes awakening and development?

What is the actual trigger leading to such awakenings?

 

Of course, here is your candy, be sweet now, and shush and stop criticizing blindly if you can't even truly think about your own statements rather they are well thought out, or just a bunch of ideas you took here and there without living up to them, able to explain when reviewed.
Really are you all really ready to teach or bombard here and there on a forum, making points towards one another if you can't even answer such simple question such as:

What is free will?

What is justice?

What is wisdom?

What is life?

What is happiness?

What is suffering?

What are the causes for suffering?

What is the end of suffering?

What leads to happiness, wisdom and justice?

Do we have a free will?

What causes suffering?

Of course, here is your candy, be sweet now, and stop your criticizing, your unwholesome speech if you didn't even truly considered thinking about your own statements rather they are well thought out, or just a bunch of ideas you took here and there without living up to them, able to explain properly, or thought out well, but just follow and belief blindly anyway. Well, post your answers on these questions if you dare, and I shall do my utmost to criticize them properly, and see rather you truly understood your own belief systems, or that it was indeed a silly blind belief. I bet people will refuse to answer such questions, because they simply can't, and this my belief why this is exactly the reason this thread has been set in place. Setting unrealistic goals for yourself, that ask for contemplation.

Really are you all really ready to teach one another or bombard here and there on the forum if you can't even answer such simple questions?
I find it utterly amazing that people keep on posting on such topics in this case that some are criticizing Martin123 and others also contemplating the same things, and are answering the most difficult questions, while I seem to have faced extreme difficulties writing my book answering the most challenging simple questions about life even when decently practicing.

I fairly believe that this thread is exactly because Martin thinks that people underestimate enlightenment, or the pursue to it, and out of kindness reflected here on this forum to reconsider. Which is demonstrating contemplation, intelligence, love and kindness, and courage to doubt consciously, which are of course the cornerstones of either self development or pursue of enlightenment, which most still up to this day fail to understand.

Of course I am just a conscious fool that must shut up.

Right?

 

[Dodo]

6 minutes ago, Aware said:

You are ruining their day!! Don't you see their sad faces when reading such things, readying to strike back after their little dip?

Stop doing this, can't you see? You take all the fun out of it for them... IT must be like a product in the supermarket that has beautiful colors, happy faces on it and extremely tempting like you see in commercials, otherwise they don't buy it.

==========================

 

 

Here for those who truly think they have it all figured out, but don't live up to it, surely they can't answer these questions, and are most definitely not willing to get a critical review after they gave it a definition if they just give it fast a definition they saw somewhere on tv, a book or elsewhere, just counting someone else's money.

What is Ego?

What is personality?

What is the origin of Ego?

What is the origin of Personality?

What is the end of Ego?

What is the end of personality?

What it is the actual trigger leading to such ends?

 

"I agree that people first should awaken, then do personal development"
Here, for those who truly think like this: 

 

What is awakening?

What is development?

What is the origin of awakening?

What is the end of awakening?

What causes awakening and development?

What is the actual trigger leading to such awakenings?

 

Of course, here is your candy, be sweet now, and shush and stop criticizing blindly if you can't even truly think about your own statements rather they are well thought out, or just a bunch of ideas you took here and there without living up to them, able to explain when reviewed.
Really are you all really ready to teach or bombard here and there on a forum, making points towards one another if you can't even answer such simple question such as:

What is free will?

What is justice?

What is wisdom?

What is life?

What is happiness?

What is suffering?

What are the causes for suffering?

What is the end of suffering?

What leads to happiness, wisdom and justice?

Do we have a free will?

What causes suffering?

Of course, here is your candy, be sweet now, and stop your criticizing, your unwholesome speech if you didn't even truly considered thinking about your own statements rather they are well thought out, or just a bunch of ideas you took here and there without living up to them, able to explain properly, or thought out well, but just follow and belief blindly anyway. Well, post your answers on these questions if you dare, and I shall do my utmost to criticize them properly, and see rather you truly understood your own belief systems, or that it was indeed a silly blind belief. I bet people will refuse to answer such questions, because they simply can't, and this my belief why this is exactly the reason this thread has been set in place. Setting unrealistic goals for yourself, that ask for contemplation.

Really are you all really ready to teach one another or bombard here and there on the forum if you can't even answer such simple questions?
I find it utterly amazing that people keep on posting on such topics in this case that some are criticizing Martin123 and others also contemplating the same things, and are answering the most difficult questions, while I seem to have faced extreme difficulties writing my book answering the most challenging simple questions about life even when decently practicing.

I fairly believe that this thread is exactly because Martin thinks that people underestimate enlightenment, or the pursue to it, and out of kindness reflected here on this forum to reconsider. Which is demonstrating contemplation, intelligence, love and kindness, and courage to doubt consciously, which are of course the cornerstones of either self development or pursue of enlightenment, which most still up to this day fail to understand.

Of course I am just a conscious fool that must shut up.

Right?

 

To all the what is questions,  the answer i have is the same : they are words, concepts and ? ideas. 

Do we have free will? No. From my investigation of reality I conclude I do not control even thoughts that come to my awareness let alone all the processes in the body, the genes and conditioning. We do have the feeling of free will however.

What causes suffering? Not fully realising that one is not the doer.

 

[Martin123]

5 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

To all the what is questions,  the answer i have is the same : they are words, concepts and ? ideas. 

 

That is not a genuine deep enough answer. 
You lay such an answer and yet you try to intellectualize what enlightenment is and isn't.  That is as if you were eating burgers and preaching veganism. 
 

7 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

What causes suffering? Not fully realising that one is not the doer.

What does this sentence mean? Do you have a direct experience of that? When I cut off my arm, am I suffering because of lack of realization? Is there ever end to suffering? Have you experienced it? Is there a function to suffering? Other than to realize one is not the doer? Is one really not the doer? Who is then "the one" if not the doer? Is there a doer? Is there action and consequence?

You don't question deeply enough, your pursuits will lead you astray unless you give your beliefs up. You are emotionally attached to them, do you see the paradox? You emotionally attached yourself to the idea of detachment. 
That is the reason I started the thread. For people like you.
That is what one calls spiritual ego. 
No closer to enlightenment then a neurotic businessman pursuing success in a corporate world.

[Aware]

37 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

To all the what is questions,  the answer i have is the same : they are words, concepts and ? ideas. 

Do we have free will? No. From my investigation of reality I conclude I do not control even thoughts that come to my awareness let alone all the processes in the body, the genes and conditioning. We do have the feeling of free will however.

What causes suffering? Not fully realising that one is not the doer.

 

 

@Dodoster Let me review this one critically:

 

You stated: The answer I have is the same: they are words, concept and ideas.

That we have no free will.

That you investigated reality.

You concluded you do not control thoughts that come to your awareness.

And stated: Not fully realizing that one is not the doer.

Surely your thinking is not due to that these things are just words, concept and ideas, yet you state that you investigated reality... What is then reality? Surely if you investigated, you at least answered that question first.

IF not, then how can you be so sure about your conclusions, and that you truly investigated, even so, not yet realizing that one is not the doer as you stated, How, if you didn't "Fully" realize one is not the doer as you state, you can conclude (and state, as you did) that we are not having a free will, or do have a free will based on your statements?

Someone that  truly investigated can surely get into depth when it comes to questions such as, what is thought, what is the origin of your thinking, what causes you to think? 

Of course these are just words, however you used these same words to make such statements, so in return I ask questions using words and concepts.

 

Conclusion: You did not fully realize that one is not the doer, yet you do claim that we have no free will. I say: How can you be sure that this is the case? What is the basis, the cause of such thinking?

Surely after such a conclusion, can you tell us, what is free will? Because you conclude that we don't have one.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Aware

[Aware]

- There was a mistake with posting I saw -

Edited January 10, 2017 by Aware

[Dodo]

33 minutes ago, Aware said:

 

@Dodoster Let me review this one critically:

 

You stated: The answer I have is the same: they are words, concept and ideas.

That we have no free will.

That you investigated reality.

You concluded you do not control thoughts that come to your awareness.

And stated: Not fully realizing that one is not the doer.

Surely your thinking is not due to that these things are just words, concept and ideas, yet you state that you investigated reality... What is then reality? Surely if you investigated, you at least answered that question first.

IF not, then how can you be so sure about your conclusions, and that you truly investigated, even so, not yet realizing that one is not the doer as you stated, How, if you didn't "Fully" realize one is not the doer as you state, you can conclude (and state, as you did) that we are not having a free will, or do have a free will based on your statements?

Someone that  truly investigated can surely get into depth when it comes to questions such as, what is thought, what is the origin of your thinking, what causes you to think? 

Of course these are just words, however you used these same words to make such statements, so in return I ask questions using words and concepts.

 

Conclusion: You did not fully realize that one is not the doer, yet you do claim that we have no free will. I say: How can you be sure that this is the case? What is the basis, the cause of such thinking?

Surely after such a conclusion, can you tell us, what is free will? Because you conclude that we don't have one.

The problem here is simple,  because it doesn't exist.

The realisation is there that I am not the doer and it is experiential. Investigation happened, realisation happened, this post happened, all along there is the full understanding that there is no doer, it is a happening.

The understanding that what you wrote also is a happening and there was no doer is also there.

I am nothing. Nothing = 0 - what is left is I am. I am is 1. 1 in infinity is 0. I am nothing. Therefore I am. It's a loop.

Judging the happening for not giving you the answers/things/actions you wanted is exactly how the chain of suffering begins.

So here's your answe to what is ego: Everything on top of I am is Ego. Not saying its bad. Its quite necessary for life.

[Aware]

17 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

The problem here is simple,  because it doesn't exist.

The realisation is there that I am not the doer and it is experiential. Investigation happened, realisation happened, this post happened, all along there is the full understanding that there is no doer, it is a happening.

The understanding that what you wrote also is a happening and there was no doer is also there.

I am nothing. Nothing = 0 - what is left is I am. I am is 1. 1 in infinity is 0. I am nothing. Therefore I am. It's a loop.

Judging the happening for not giving you the answers/things/actions you wanted is exactly how the chain of suffering begins.

So here's your answe to what is ego: Everything on top of I am is Ego. Not saying its bad. Its quite necessary for life.

I will again critically review:

I hope of course that you see that you are not answering the questions I posted:

 

What is ego: "Everything on top of I am is Ego. Not saying its bad. Its quite necessary for life."

What is I am, and what is then on top of that? It doesn't answer what IS ego.

You state you are nothing.

 

What is the cause of our thinking: "I am nothing" "The understanding that what you wrote also is a happening and there was no doer is also there." (this is not what you stated before, that you were not fully sure).

This is not answering the question is it? I mean on top of nothing, that is ego. I wonder how ego came out of nothing then, in such a case... Can you explain how Ego comes out of nothing, by first answering: What IS nothing? (good luck answering what is nothing), What is ego, and how one (ego) is on top of the other (nothing) then then can be verified as Ego.

You state you are nothing. You state you have investigated reality. But can't answer what is reality? 
You state we have no free will. But can't answer what free will is. 

So if I state it correctly: In the beginning, there was nothing. And out of nothing, came the Ego?

Surely you stated that you investigated reality, "the Nothing" is what you investigated, the thing that is called nothing, that you made into something, from nothing?

 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Aware

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, Martin123 said:

That is not a genuine deep enough answer. 
You lay such an answer and yet you try to intellectualize what enlightenment is and isn't.  That is as if you were eating burgers and preaching veganism. 
 

What does this sentence mean? Do you have a direct experience of that? When I cut off my arm, am I suffering because of lack of realization? Is there ever end to suffering? Have you experienced it? Is there a function to suffering? Other than to realize one is not the doer? Is one really not the doer? Who is then "the one" if not the doer? Is there a doer? Is there action and consequence?

You don't question deeply enough, your pursuits will lead you astray unless you give your beliefs up. You are emotionally attached to them, do you see the paradox? You emotionally attached yourself to the idea of detachment. 
That is the reason I started the thread. For people like you.
That is what one calls spiritual ego. 
No closer to enlightenment then a neurotic businessman pursuing success in a corporate world.

You think Jesus on the cross didn't feel anything?  It's a different kind of suffering we are talking about here, lets not confuse. We are talking about ordinary day to day living. Not if we will feel pain if someone cuts off our genitals.

But im sure Jesus didnt have inner resistance to the happening,  nor judgement towards those who were doing the torturing. His understanding was compplete.

Forgive them they know not what they do.

[Martin123]

@Dodoster
Idd, good old J-Dog was a wise man.
So what about emotional suffering? Which is happening on biological level just like physical pain. What about that one?
Also, is there a purpose to it? etc. etc. You answered one question very indirectly.

Now what is your direct experience? end of suffering? non-doer? Infinite nature of the self? Infinite reality? Nothingness? Non-duality?
Or is it just belifes you took on, and attached yourself to?

Now if it is the attachment case tell me.
Is there a difference between being attached towards spiritual beliefs or other beliefs?

[Aware]

Quote

 am nothing. Nothing = 0 - what is left is I am. I am is 1. 1 in infinity is 0. I am nothing. Therefore I am. It's a loop.

@Martin123

This is the reason why it doesn't add up. Because who's loop? No one spoke about any loop. nothing + I = I am? Nothing is nothing it isn't something. Using the word nothing presenting it as some kind of element to combine, is indeed a loop, but not one that explains ones true nature. Nothing doesn't speak, or has not spoken,.. Nor did I... And now we get closer where and why it slips.

And here it slips:

Quote

This is not answering the question is it? I mean on top of nothing, that is ego. I wonder how ego came out of nothing then, in such a case... Can you explain how Ego comes out of nothing, by first answering: What IS nothing? (good luck answering what is nothing), What is ego, and how one (ego) is on top of the other (nothing) then then can be verified as Ego.

There is the statement of explaining Nothing and I am, while you can't combine something with nothing. And if one truly understands it, one can answer the questions I listed up perfectly fine.

But this cannot be, for as long one didn't question deep enough, and doesn't live up to it in a way that supports such high power of thinking.

 

In this whole thread, I will not get the answer Martin, to the questions I listed up.

[Dodo]

15 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

@Dodoster
Idd, good old J-Dog was a wise man.
So what about emotional suffering? Which is happening on biological level just like physical pain. What about that one?
Also, is there a purpose to it? etc. etc. You answered one question very indirectly.

Now what is your direct experience? end of suffering? non-doer? Infinite nature of the self? Infinite reality? Nothingness? Non-duality?
Or is it just belifes you took on, and attached yourself to?

Now if it is the attachment case tell me.
Is there a difference between being attached towards spiritual beliefs or other beliefs?

Realising you are not the doer experientially leads to non resistance.

The mind stops resisting, the Ego stops resisting, when it is not energised in the direction of resistance.

Ego and mind are illusory, because I am only I am. Everything beyond I am, even the words I am are up to interpretation.

Thats how the game is played. I dont know if you are resisting and you dont know if i am resisting, because those are projections based on reading pixels on a screen.

Or if it was face to face conversation,  you could ever only be judging an image of me, not the reality of I am, which is undeniable.

DONT WORRY, YOU ALSO ARE. You just think you also Do. It's the belief that will cause you suffering. 

Whatever i am saying is not ultimate truth, because the ultimate truth is the actual I am. 

These are not beliefs, this is a happening. 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Dodoster

[Aware]

@Dodoster

You can put well over a 1000 words on here, but as long as you can't answer the simple questions asked,.. IT remains not clear to yourself.

 

You think when Buddha was asked: What is suffering?

He would answer what you were posting? Like "These are just words and concepts".

Or would you think he would go: This is suffering, this is the cause of suffering, this is the end of suffering, this is the way leading to the end of suffering.

 

Take the list I put down, and really start answering them correctly after deep thinking.  When I ask some spiritual advanced people, they truly answer such questions, and get into depth about them correctly.

Not escaping with repetitions from other works. Or they use parts from other works with a good explanation related to such questions when asked for clarification.

 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Aware

[Dodo]

28 minutes ago, Aware said:

@Dodoster

You can put well over a 1000 words on here, but as long as you can't answer the simple questions asked,.. IT remains not clear to yourself.

 

You think when Buddha was asked: What is suffering?

He would answer what you were posting? Like "These are just words and concepts".

Or would you think he would go: This is suffering, this is the cause of suffering, this is the end of suffering, this is the way leading to the end of suffering.

 

Take the list I put down, and really start answering them correctly after deep thinking.  When I ask some spiritual advanced people, they truly answer such questions, and get into depth about them correctly.

Not escaping with repetitions from other works. Or used parts from other works with a good explanation related to such questions when asked.

 

The answer is, i am not the buddha.

I am not a teacher. I am, period. Take it or leave it, it's God's will.

People who would go indepth will also just be a happening. Spiritual advanced people are still part of the illusion/happening . Ramana Maharshi did not do, God did.

When you get there's nothing to get, you will get.

 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Dodoster

[Martin123]

@Dodoster My dude you preach detachment yet you are attached. 
I wish you all the best, and hope you won't rest your head too long in the attachment. It doesn't serve your goals. 
(It is only because I have been in the attachment period, and there is a good reason why we attach. Because the second we start detaching, a lot of pain starts coming in. Do you know what that's called? Shadow-work, wink wink :p)
peace out.

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

@Dodoster My dude you preach detachment yet you are attached. 
I wish you all the best, and hope you won't rest your head too long in the attachment. It doesn't serve your goals. 
(It is only because I have been in the attachment period, and there is a good reason why we attach. Because the second we start detaching, a lot of pain starts coming in. Do you know what that's called? Shadow-work, wink wink :p)
peace out.

Your image of me is attached. 

[Aware]

That is fallacy of course. I am not telling you that you must be Buddha, or that you must answer the way he did. I am referring to his work, letting you question rather you were as clear or not. Buddha is not a person, I refer to his work, that reflects Buddha in relationship with your posting. But if you wanna take it down that road: I am definitely sure that I can review his work as clear as daylight compared to your posts about the questions that I asked.

And now you try to escape with:

26 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

The answer is, i am not the buddha.

I am not a teacher. I am, period. Take it or leave it, it's God's will.

People who would go indepth will also just be a happening. Spiritual advanced people are still part of the illusion. Ramana Maharshi did not do, God did.

When you get there's nothing to get, you will get.

This of course doesn't answer any question on that list I posted which of course you responded on showing you know the answers to them, I hope you clearly see that you after all (and I can just quote the whole bunch of it here...) did came with a post where you were thinking to have the answers. While I don't see any clear answer coming. How from nothing, comes something. What ego is, on top of that nothing you speak off. Its just a wild bunch of guess work where you claimed to have investigated reality, and when asked about it, you speak like:

Quote

 

The answer is, i am not the buddha.

I am not a teacher. I am, period. Take it or leave it, it's God's will.

People who would go indepth will also just be a happening. Spiritual advanced people are still part of the illusion. Ramana Maharshi did not do, God did.

When you get there's nothing to get, you will get.

 

Of course when asked the whole bunch of how to get there, what your daily structure is, we get of course the same vague answers... 

Of course because the most simple questions asked about life, he can't answer properly. Which will let people think: ... Well I think they know for themselves.

You can also just be honest and say: I just don't know. I just thought I knew, but I do not know.

 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Aware

[Dodo]

14 minutes ago, Aware said:

That is fallacy of course. I am not telling you that you must be Buddha, or that you must answer the way he did. I am referring to his work, letting you question rather you were as clear or not. Buddha is not a person, I refer to his work, that reflects Buddha in relationship with your posting. But if you wanna take it down that road: I am definitely sure that I can review his work as clear as daylight compared to your posts about the questions that I asked.

And now you try to escape with:

This of course doesn't answer any question on that list I posted which of course you responded on showing you know the answers to them, I hope you clearly see that you after all (and I can just quote the whole bunch of it here...) did came with a post where you were thinking to have the answers. While I don't see any clear answer coming. How from nothing, comes something. What ego is, on top of that nothing you speak off. Its just a wild bunch of guess work where you claimed to have investigated reality, and when asked about it, you speak like:

Of course when asked the whole bunch of how to get there, what your daily structure is, we get of course the same vague answers... 

Of course because the most simple questions asked about life, he can't answer properly. Which will let people think: ... Well I think they know for themselves.

 

There are many different valid ways to answer something and just because you dont like what was said does not make it invalid. Also you dont know the circumstances around me typing those things.

It was not the full focus of attention (I was at work), so I couldn't give the most indepth answers I could have, obviously. Im trying to make it simple. But that is also a happening not under my control. The feeling of free will is there, but it is only just that - a feeling. It is to be transcended like all other beliefs based on a whim. Only you can transcend your beliefs, because only you can be concious of them. This is the ultimate You, which is the I am conciousness (to put that fancy word out there for some spiritual street cred)

Anyway, I dont consider this as non duality war, but it might look like one and Leo has posted against it, I think we need to stop our little conversation, even though it is very enjoyable to be part of it. Maybe we continue in private messages

Edited January 10, 2017 by Dodoster