Why I Think Most People Should Give Up On Enlightenment. For Now!

[Martin123]

Hi!

I have always had this intuitive feeling about enlightenment that I think isn't emphasized enough. 
Many people here have basic issues with self-acceptance, self-esteem, self-worth etc. In other words, they have extremely fragile egos. A fragile ego is usually (VERY VERY usually, in extreme scenarios as one that Eckhart Tolle went through it can happen, so there are of course exceptions) impossible to let go of.

Why is that?
To answer I will paint you a metaphor for an unhealthy vs. healthy ego.

Unhealthy ego - imagine it as it a sphere being covered with glue. It rolls through life and gets attached to various things, beliefs, ideologies, and people. You let go of one part, but because it has an extremely sticky surface, it immediately replaces one attachment with another one. Not only that, but letting go and detaching yourself will feel infinitely more painful.

Healthy ego - imagine it as a solid heavy sphere ROLLING itself through life. Busting through obstacles, and attaching itself to things it chooses to, but only temporarily, without changing the core (sphere). Now it can often times roll against the current of life, that however is another story =D. 
 

What happens when unhealthy ego reaches certain levels of detachment?
Well it isn't impossible, but it won't be nice. And there will be things like depersonalization disorder, or other kinds of neurotic outbursts. 

I have heard a dude texting me, asking for advice saying things like "Yeah I do self-enquiry and pursue enlightenment and realize its all love but I am so neurotic and I envy.. etc. etc." (basically Self-esteem issues).
I was horrified hearing about that. This dude just neglected his neurotic ego. That is very dangerous, and unnecessarily painful!
You need to first develop your ego into a state where you are ready to let go of it.

THIS IS WHY IT IS IMPORTANT TO PREPARE GROUND FOR ENLIGHTENMENT
What would that mean?
Simply, healing your neuroses, emotional body, trauma, etc.
How?
Therapy, some deep self-help and contemplation, shadow-work, etc. (Prior to this some self-acceptance and self-love exercises are always a great idea).

This NEEDS TO BE EMPHASIZED MORE I FEEL. 
That is my take on it. Suggestion to either pin this post or somehow create more awareness about this to @Leo Gura.

Have a good week! Happy 2017! :-)


side question: I have never done self-enquiry yet. (not an serious sessions anywho) To those of you who have. Is there a therapeutic component to it? Or is it pure enlightenment seeking exercise?

Edited January 9, 2017 by Martin123

[electroBeam]

I don't quite agree, in fact many teachers I have talked to actually believe you should get enlightened THEN do personal development.

The reason is, if you have very low awareness about yourself, because you aren't pursuing enlightenment, then you Don't actually know what needs to be fixed in the first place. You don't even realize that your ego looks like glue, with holes in it. Enlightenment is like a lighthouse, it reveals all of the problems your ego has. 

When you try and do personal development first, its like you are trying to find treasure without a clear map on where the treasure actually is. Your in a way, just guessing what has to be fixed and what doesn't.

I see pursing personal development, without any enlightened perspective, like trying to stab in the dark.

In my opinion, this is what integrating the enlightenment experience is all about, using an enlightened perspective to help you fix your neurosis. 

[Dodo]

7 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

I don't quite agree, in fact many teachers I have talked to actually believe you should get enlightened THEN do personal development.

The reason is, if you have very low awareness about yourself, because you aren't pursuing enlightenment, then you Don't actually know what needs to be fixed in the first place. You don't even realize that your ego looks like glue, with holes in it. Enlightenment is like a lighthouse, it reveals all of the problems your ego has. 

When you try and do personal development first, its like you are trying to find treasure without a clear map on where the treasure actually is. Your in a way, just guessing what has to be fixed and what doesn't.

I see pursing personal development, without any enlightened perspective, like trying to stab in the dark.

In my opinion, this is what integrating the enlightenment experience is all about, using an enlightened perspective to help you fix your neurosis. 

Exactly,  spot on. I dont get all the fear is about,  fear is just in mind, we are beyond mind.

If there is neurosis it means his mind is fighting the truth, so its helping him know hes not doing something right, its all good.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Dodoster

[Martin123]

@electroBeam Sorry my dude but thats nonsense. The only instance this will work is when the "healing" happens as a part of the enquiry process, which is totally possible.
I don't use the term personal development because I feel like it is misleading. 
Healing is much more fitting imo.
Also whenever Leo talks about raising awareness - THIS IS IT! You reach "higher level of awareness" when you achieve healing. 
Enlightenment is NOT raising awareness. Enlightenment if anything is abandonment of "different levels of awareness". In fact it has nothing to do with it. 

[Martin123]

Also one point that I feel like is needed to be mentioned. (credit to Rali). Many people use seeking enlightenment as an escape. That is just a waste of time. 

[Martin123]

5 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

Exactly,  spot on. I dont get all the fear is about,  fear is just in mind, we are beyond mind

Wwwwait what? fear? what fear? Nobody mentioned any fear. Care to elaborate?

[electroBeam]

6 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

@electroBeam Sorry my dude

are you Rali's brother lol?

That's interesting that you listen to Rali, because I'm pretty sure he discounts healing all together as nonsense. "all you need is enlightenment"

Edited January 9, 2017 by electroBeam

[Dodo]

6 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

Also one point that I feel like is needed to be mentioned. (credit to Rali). Many people use seeking enlightenment as an escape. That is just a waste of time. 

Rali does not know it all. One cannot know the inner world of others, one can only know their own self, so one should not judge others. 

If a person looks like they are escaping on the outside, that doesnt prove anything about their inner state. 

Just like a person can look calm when they are neurotic inside,  a person can look neurotic when they are calm inside. It is all part of the bigger picture and is perfect. 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Dodoster

[Martin123]

@electroBeam 

4 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

are you Rali's brother lol?

That's interesting that you listen to Rali, because I'm pretty sure he discounts healing all together as nonsense. "all you need is enlightenment"

English is my second language. So I tend to sometimes adapt terms that I like from people I'd seen talking for some a time period if I like the sound of it. Watch his latest videos on Shadow-work. 

1 minute ago, Dodoster said:

Rali does not know it all. One cannot know the inner world of others, one can only know their own self, so one should not judge others. 

If a person looks like they are escaping on the outside, that doesnt prove anything about their inner state. 

Just like a person can look calm when they are neurotic inside,  a person can look neurotic when they are calm inside.

Yeaah. Hahaha Glad you said that. That is not true =D.
I can tell when a person is depressed even when they " try to look calm". 
You can't hide it, It is energy that is leaking out of you. If you develop certain sensitivity to it, you can just look at someone and tell.

I did not say that Rali knows it all. I mentioned a point he said. Which supports my claim. Why would you even write that sentence.

[Dodo]

7 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

Wwwwait what? fear? what fear? Nobody mentioned any fear. Care to elaborate?

Fear of letting go.

[Martin123]

@Dodoster @electroBeam
Ok so cool you guys disagree. Let's not turn this into a beef though. I would like to have more perspectives here. Especially from experienced people.

[Bob84]

@Martin123 Isn't it more about "how much can your ego bullshit you" if a awakening happens?
Funny thing is that yes you need to give up your attachment to enlightenment if you want to reach it

[Martin123]

@Wormon Blatburm I've read about a few schizophrenia cases. Although when the person calmed her tits and stopped meditating 6 hours a day, and swapped for 1 hour a day instead, it vanished.

[Dodo]

13 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

@electroBeam 

English is my second language. So I tend to sometimes adapt terms that I like from people I'd seen talking for some a time period if I like the sound of it. Watch his latest videos on Shadow-work. 

Yeaah. Hahaha Glad you said that. That is not true =D.
I can tell when a person is depressed even when they " try to look calm". 
You can't hide it, It is energy that is leaking out of you. If you develop certain sensitivity to it, you can just look at someone and tell.

I did not say that Rali knows it all. I mentioned a point he said. Which supports my claim. Why would you even write that sentence.

It seems like you are in the part of your journey where you still are deeply identifying with your body and the ego that can be depressed. You are judging a lot and dont realise if you were me you would write the same things <3 i know this to be true,  because it is already the case. 

What I am saying is that even if the person looks depressed to you, and feels depressed and is depressed,  that doesn't mean they are depressed. Its the illusion that is depressed.

We're here in this forum for enlightenment. It is the ultimate cure. Why would people need to wait for something that is their true nature already? 

Ps : I dont know your inner state while we are corresponding,  and you dont know mine. Any energy is not who you are, so whatever you sense is not the other nor you .

Edited January 9, 2017 by Dodoster

[Martin123]

@Bob84 Yes in a way. "STICKY EGO", or a "WEAK EGO" has a lot more bullshiting potential though. A LOT!

@Dodoster K got it. You disagree. There is nothing more to be said here in our conversation.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Martin123

[electroBeam]

7 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

@Wormon Blatburm I've read about a few schizophrenia cases. Although when the person calmed her tits and stopped meditating 6 hours a day, and swapped for 1 hour a day instead, it vanished.

I actually developed hallucinations about 2 months ago from meditation. BUT this is as Leo would say 'par of the course'. Every teacher I know seems to talk about hallucinations, regardless of how shit hot their ego is. 

EDIT: I just watched Rali's new videos, I now see where you get your perspective from. He has completely changed his channel.

Edited January 9, 2017 by electroBeam

[Martin123]

@electroBeam Yes, but then again. When you hallucinate and let go of trauma and suffer etc. Healing is taking place! x)

[Dodo]

9 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

@Bob84 Yes in a way. "STICKY EGO", or a "WEAK EGO" has a lot more bullshiting potential though. A LOT!
@Dodoster K got it. You disagree. There is nothing more to be said here in our conversation.

Im not disagreeing as to piss on your idea, i disagree with the intention to help you see the simplest truth, which will quickly change your idea of enlightenment.

As someone said here already, enlightenment is not the raising of awareness,  its the first thing before you start raising awareness. Its like realising the number 0, on which now you can start building. Everything becomes a game, even neurosis. You can observe it, it's not you. Now you can drop it.

ITS NOT ONLY FIGURE OF SPEECH THAT ENLIGHTENMENT IS THE EASIEST THING,  ITS THE LIBERATING TRUTH. 

 

What comes after it is the hard part, but its like a hard game, not soperson al anymore. Lets play

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Dodoster

[electroBeam]

@Martin123

 

[Martin123]

@electroBeam Yeah exactly. But I feel like this is not strong enough message for most. There are still many that are deluding themselves. (Btw THIS IS WHY SPIRITUAL EGO IS A THING! Because a weak ego got attached to enlightenment!)
(Idk I don't think it is that huge of a deal, I just had 2 hours to kill before my university lecture starts so I felt like making this post, it kinda blew up love it haha)