I think LEO must be clear on " You are the only one that exist" for liberation.

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, machiavelli said:

Thats not what I believe or not. Thats what Ultimate Truth is . 

You are thinking relatively. When you realize you are GOD , you realize other people are dreamed up by you and are fictional . 

God is One. You cant say I am GOD and I am having my own experience and You are GOD too having your own experience. This implies two GODs exist or simply duality.

There are no two experiences. Its a duality.

This is just Leo videos dude, lol.

Nobody is discussing what you think they're discussing. The whole solipsism contention is exactly what I said, it's whether you think I'm lying to you about seeing right now or not. That is what people are concerned with...

I'm curious as to Leo's thoughts on that, that is what he will not clarify at all. I think he is unsure on that matter.

[Thought Art]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@machiavelli Isn't it obvious to you that before you were born no humans existed? And after you die none will exist?

It's like you're a child who asks, "Daddy, daddy! What happens to Mario when I turn off the Nintendo? Does he still keep living a good life inside there?"

Sassy ?‍♀️ 

[machiavelli]

@Leo Gura Please clarify how does other people have separate independent existence . Isnt it duality?

Is it something I am imagining right now too so that I cannot realize I am GOD alone? 

Is it a trick I am playing on myself?

51 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

 

I'm curious as to Leo's thoughts on that, that is what he will not clarify at all. I think he is unsure on that matter.

@RMQualtrough

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

 

The contention is whether you believe, as per example, whether I am actually seeing my mobile screen or if I'm just a cardboard cutout lying to you. That is the what people mean by it.

As we have said to you in the past - you can awaken and become directly conscious that this is a dream.   So this is not a belief.  You can become directly conscious of it.  That you are alone as God.  There will be no doubts.  This is why it is called awakening...now..just be aware..that when and if you do, you will most likely have a psychotic break...you will experience your own death and you will realize that everything and everyone is literally you...and it is impossible to function (at least it was for me) in a state of consciousness where you cannot discern the difference between you and your own brother.  It may take weeks to get back to a normal dualistic state of consciousness...but you will be a mystic

   This is probably why you sit on the forum wanting clarification from Leo..maybe you know deep down that if you questioned your own reality deep enough you may not like what you find.

[RMQualtrough]

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

As we have said to you in the past - you can awaken and become directly conscious that this is a dream.   So this is not a belief.  You can become directly conscious of it.  Thaf you are alone as God.  There will be no doibts.  This is why it is called awakening...now..just be aware..that when and if you do, you will most likely have a psychotic break...because you will realize that everything and everyone is literally you...and it is impossible to function (at least it was for me) when you cannot discern the difference between you and your own brother.  It may take weeks to get back to normal dualistic functionality.   This is probably why you sit on the forum wanting clarification from Leo..maybe you know deep down that if you questioned your own reality deep enough you may not like what you find.

This says absolutely nothing at all about whether you think I am seeing this screen or not.

I know if I punch myself right now I feel pain. I could do it right now. If I put a chainsaw through your leg, however, no pain would be felt as far as I can tell: Either when I saw your leg off the pain does not happen at all, or it happens and I am the one to feel it.

There is the clear difference and absolutely nobody will clarify their position on it at all, probably because they aren't sure.

Either it's somewhat like The Egg (Andy Weir), or it's more like you're just NPCs and I can chop you into pieces and know I'm not causing any pain.

Edited January 27, 2022 by RMQualtrough

[Nahm]

@RMQualtrough

Woah. Went too far. 

?

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

There is the clear difference and absolutely nobody will clarify their position on it at all, probably because they aren't sure.

I don't think you are hearing what I am saying....also - what @Gianna was saying is sound..the road to awakening and actually becoming conscious of what is being said here for yourself (and there will be no need to ask others) starts with you not others..  If you realize no self, a key facet, it will also lead to the realization  that perception is an illusion - you will realize that everything being experienced right now is just pure Absolute Truth.  That pain is in fact imaginary and you as God are imagining pain and that there is a you and a me who  feels pain.  

[RMQualtrough]

@Nahm Not at all, that is fundamentally what the entire contention is about. If it's "The Egg" type Solipsism where, essentially, the life of every living thing is being had by you, I have not seen any nondual teacher ever contend that.

The contention is about whether as said, if pain happens if I shot you in the foot, or if there is no pain at all, like if I set fire to a plank of wood.

[Nahm]

@RMQualtrough

Contention??

Content I on, maybe. 

[Mason Riggle]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You have divided your mind into parts and then get upset at yourself when your divisions don't add up. It don't add up because everyone is you.

This is my response to you on your critiques of Sam Harris.. you get upset with yourself (him) when your divisions don't add up.. it don't add up because everyone is you.  When you say 'Sam Harris hasn't realized God'.. I laugh.   There is no Sam Harris who isn't you.  Sam Harris can't realize he is God. Nobody 'else' can. Rupert Spira hasn't realized he is God either.   There is nothing 'Rupert Spira realizes that Sam Harris doesn't', because 'Rupert Spira talking to Sam Harris' is just more God pretending not to be. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Mason Riggle

[machiavelli]

@AMTO Check Mira S Nderf on google.

[RMQualtrough]

10 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I don't think you are hearing what I am saying....also - what @Gianna was saying is sound..the road to awakening and actually becoming conscious of what is being said here for yourself (and there will be no need to ask others) starts with you not others..  If you realize no self, a key facet, it will also lead to the realization  that perception is an illusion - you will realize that everything being experienced right now is just pure Absolute Truth.  That pain is in fact imaginary and you as God are imagining pain and that there is a you and a me who  feels pain.  

I've taken the same drugs, I know what happens.

My position is, I do not see any reason that it would not be possible that pain happens when I shoot you in the foot. I don't find it contradictory. If you are all just saying other people's inner experiences might be happening, but they are merely had by you, it's just putting weird labels on very firmly established Buddhist and Hindu mystic revelations.

It's actually quite easy to be precise on the position. But instead of course I see the high school teen schoolyard discussion type solipsism being discussed because people just refuse to be concise in their meaning.

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

This is my response to you on your critiques of Sam Harris.. you get upset with yourself (him) when your divisions don't add up.. it don't add up because everyone is you.  When you say 'Sam Harris hasn't realized God'.. I laugh.   There is no Sam Harris who isn't you.  Sam Harris can't realize he is God. Nobody 'else' can. Rupert Spira hasn't realized he is God either.   There is nothing 'Rupert Spira realizes that Sam Harris doesn't', because 'Rupert Spira talking to Sam Harris' is just more God pretending not to be. 

Love u man..yeah - It's all a game once you have awoken.  But then have you ever had a lucid dream where maybe you were trying to get the dream characters to wake up?  Well as you are lucid dreaming you begin to imagine its real, that they are real, and the moment you do,  you have made it real - as the difference between imagination and reality collapses.  Then you wake up and realize it was all just a dream

 

[machiavelli]

20 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I don't think you are hearing what I am saying....also - what @Gianna was saying is sound..the road to awakening and actually becoming conscious of what is being said here for yourself (and there will be no need to ask others) starts with you not others..  If you realize no self, a key facet, it will also lead to the realization  that perception is an illusion - you will realize that everything being experienced right now is just pure Absolute Truth.  That pain is in fact imaginary and you as God are imagining pain and that there is a you and a me who  feels pain.  

@Inliytened1 what do you mean you and me feels pain?

Are you saying their are two GODs? Or I am imagining other people pain?

[Mason Riggle]

@Inliytened1 

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@Inliytened1 what do you mean you and me feels pain?

Are you saying their are two GODs? 

No I meant that you as God are imagining that you are a human feeling pain and that another human feels pain.

[RMQualtrough]

2 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@Inliytened1 what do you mean you and me feels pain?

Are you saying their are two GODs? Or I am imagining other people pain?

You're just being bamboozled by bizarre wording.

You should probably watch Rupert Spira's videos instead, he cares far more about making sure the people he is talking to understand what he is saying.

All mystic traditions are solipsistic (of course, as everything is one). It is very different from the type of solipsism schoolboys discuss in class where they're like "I'm real! You're just a robot!" and their friend is like "no, I know I am real! You are the robot!" (I had those conversations once or twice in high school lol).

[Mason Riggle]

@RMQualtrough exactly. 

I make the distinction between solipsism (lowercase s) - there is only me, and everything 'else' is 'my imagination'. 
and Solipsism (capital S) - there is only me, and there is no 'everything else'.. I am everything that there seems to be. 

[JohnD]

You need a certain degree of boundaries between your ego and other egos before you integrate those insights or you get an incoherent, codependent world-view plastered with the appearance of high-consciousness. You also lose the stability offered by the lower level world-views in the psychic space.

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@RMQualtrough

Contention??

Content I on, maybe.