I think LEO must be clear on " You are the only one that exist" for liberation.

[Gianna]

3 hours ago, machiavelli said:

this is main thing to liberate everyone.

This is not the main thing to liberate everyone. What liberates everyone is disidentification. And when you don't have the feeling reference of what Leo is really pointing to when he says you are alone, you will try to understand it through identification which is what leads to solipsism and why so many people get stuck on it. The alone thing will absolutely not liberate you if you are not, or can not, or have not reached beyond the level of total disidentification.  

3 hours ago, machiavelli said:

this world is a mere mirage or dream... you are imagining yourself.

I feel this is main thing which LEO must clear because this leads to liberation.

Again, you have it backward. The world being a mirage is not what liberates you, it is what you come to realize after liberation. 

3 hours ago, machiavelli said:

I am yet to feel liberated because I constantly thinks others are real . Whole point of enlightenment is liberation and non attachment.

You can think others are real and still reach liberation. It is you who must be seen through as not real because you are others. So when you see that you are not real (and this goes beyond just intellectual understanding of the concept of ego, it is a feeling experience) you will inevitably see that others are not real. In other words, it's best to start with you, because you are where everything starts and ends. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Gianna

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, machiavelli said:

How can you say " You are God " yet at the same time say " I am God too" . This is duality.

The problem is that you assume I said it to you, when actually you said it to yourself, since I am you

For you to create a Leo you must imagine he has experiences outside of yours.

You have divided your mind into parts and then get upset at yourself when your divisions don't add up. It don't add up because everyone is you.

[RMQualtrough]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

For you to create a Leo you must imagine he has experiences outside of yours.

You are not talking about ego level imagination are you? But the same level of imagination that imagines the laws of physics and the inability to start flying around in the sky by flapping our arms.

Edited January 27, 2022 by RMQualtrough

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

You are not talking about ego level imagination are you? But the same level of imagination that imagines the laws of physics and the inability to start flying around in the sky by flapping our arms.

Actually, my experiences are just thoughts in your mind. So it's a rather flimsy sort of imagination you're using to imagine my inner world. The imagination you use to imagine physical reality is much stronger and deeper.

[machiavelli]

7 hours ago, Gianna said:

This is not the main thing to liberate everyone. What liberates everyone is disidentification. And when you don't have the feeling reference of what Leo is really pointing to when he says you are alone, you will try to understand it through identification which is what leads to solipsism and why so many people get stuck on it. The alone thing will absolutely not liberate you if you are not, or can not, or have not reached beyond the level of total disidentification.  

Again, you have it backward. The world being a mirage is not what liberates you, it is what you come to realize after liberation. 

You can think others are real and still reach liberation. It is you who must be seen through as not real because you are others. So when you see that you are not real (and this goes beyond just intellectual understanding of the concept of ego, it is a feeling experience) you will inevitably see that others are not real. In other words, it's best to start with you, because you are where everything starts and ends. 

 

Dont play word games here and tell stories.

 

Just tell me if I am GOD then isnt other people figments of GODs imagination bec other people includes GOD too?

I am talking here from absolute perspective not relative. When I say others are imaginery that includes my ego identity too . 

[machiavelli]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem is that you assume I said it to you, when actually you said it to yourself, since I am you

For you to create a Leo you must imagine he has experiences outside of yours.

You have divided your mind into parts and then get upset at yourself when your divisions don't add up. It don't add up because everyone is you.

@Leo Gura I have few questions please clarify my insights please.

1. Am I correct if this world is mere dream with no substance at all . And If I am GOD then other people are imagination of my mind? I am talking here from absolute perspective.

2.  I want to clarify doubt regarding what others mean when they say others are having independent existence when you realize " You are GOD ".  Am I unaware right now, that others people experience is dreamt up by me too as GOD? 

3. Please clarify , in absolute perspective when I realize myself infinite . When I realize my body is imaginery . Do other people too are imagination of my ( GOD) mind and in absolute sense their existence depend on my ( GOD) imagination ?

[Leo Gura]

@machiavelli I have told you guys over and over again, it works just like a dream.

[CuriousityIsKey]

That's actually Funny , how no one actually talking to no one ? 

AndI am here observing

Edited January 27, 2022 by CuriousityIsKey

[machiavelli]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@machiavelli I have told you guys over and over again, it works just like a dream.

@Leo Gura That means just like characters in dream are fictional and imagined by me. Other people too are imagined by me as GOD? 

Please clarify this. Do others existence depend upon GOD's imagination? For ex- My friends and family exist because I am dreaming them up as GOD that includes my ego identity?

[CuriousityIsKey]

You don't imagine,  at least I can rest assured yiu that I have an awareness, then that would mean we both imagine , lol what?lol 

Edited January 27, 2022 by CuriousityIsKey

[Leo Gura]

@machiavelli Isn't it obvious to you that before you were born no humans existed? And after you die none will exist?

It's like you're a child who asks, "Daddy, daddy! What happens to Mario when I turn off the Nintendo? Does he still keep living a good life inside there?"

[machiavelli]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@machiavelli Isn't it obvious to you that before you were born no humans existed? And after you die none will exist?

It's like you're a child who asks, "Daddy, daddy! What happens to Mario when I turn off the Nintendo? Does he still keep living a good life inside there?"

Thanks for response. But I was specifically asking about when I realize I am GOD and my body is imaginery does it also mean others are imaginery too? Imagined by me and their existence depend upon me as I as am GOD ?

Without my ( GOD) imagination nothing can exist bec I am the only thing that exist in absolute persepective? 

Please clarify this.

Edited January 27, 2022 by machiavelli

[Nadosa]

1 hour ago, machiavelli said:

Thanks for response. But I was specifically asking about when I realize I am GOD and my body is imaginery does it also mean others are imaginery too? Imagined by me and their existence depend upon me as I as am GOD ?

Without my ( GOD) imagination nothing can exist bec I am the only thing that exist in absolute persepective? 

Please clarify this.

Are you happy if he says yes? What about direct experience? You?

[RMQualtrough]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Actually, my experiences are just thoughts in your mind. So it's a rather flimsy sort of imagination you're using to imagine my inner world. The imagination you use to imagine physical reality is much stronger and deeper.

You realize that what you are saying makes people think you and I are cardboard cutouts. I can say I am seeing this mobile phone, but what you are saying makes OP believe I'm lying about that and it's not happening.

That is of course very very different from it happening but OP being the one having that sight.

I'm not sure if you are wanting to commit to one. I don't see a conflict in the latter, I would think in infinity it would be certain tbh, that this me would eventually (using linear time to imagine this) be the "cardboard cutout" experiencing me say/do the same exact things from the perspective of another person. It doesn't seem problematic to me.

[machiavelli]

@RMQualtrough I am talking from absolute perspective. There cant be many gods. 

God is One. 

What is the substance this world made up of ? Are you gonna say its made up of atoms or strings? Where do these atom came from if you are not imagining it?

If I am GOD that means other people are fictional just like my own ego identity or self. 

i never said my ego self is real. What I meant was I as GOD is only real that is imagining other people and each and everything .

 

[machiavelli]

1 hour ago, Nadosa said:

Are you happy if he says yes? What about direct experience? You?

@Nadosa  I only care about truth. I dont care about solipsism.

[OBEler]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Actually, my experiences (Leo) are just thoughts in your mind( as God) . So it's a rather flimsy sort of imagination you ( as God) are using to imagine my inner world ( as Leo) . The imagination you use (As God)  to imagine physical reality is much stronger and deeper.

Can somebody confirm, that I translated right in brackets)?

Always difficult to follow... you, I, ego, God, absolute, relative, 

Edited January 27, 2022 by OBEler
ok

[Khan 0]

13 hours ago, The0Self said:

To be God is to know nothing of God.

They will never get it. 

13 hours ago, Nahm said:

?

??

[RMQualtrough]

15 minutes ago, machiavelli said:

@RMQualtrough I am talking from absolute perspective. There cant be many gods. 

God is One. 

What is the substance this world made up of ? Are you gonna say its made up of atoms or strings? Where do these atom came from if you are not imagining it?

If I am GOD that means other people are fictional just like my own ego identity or self. 

i never said my ego self is real. What I meant was I as GOD is only real that is imagining other people and each and everything .

 

That is every single nondual teaching though, that is not anyone's contention with solipsism... Else those people would be Christians or something (even Materialism is non-dual as far as I know).

The contention is whether you believe, as per example, whether I am actually seeing my mobile screen or if I'm just a cardboard cutout lying to you. That is the what people mean by it.

[machiavelli]

2 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

The contention is whether you believe, as per example, whether I am actually seeing my mobile screen or if I'm just a cardboard cutout lying to you. That is the what people mean by it.

Thats not what I believe or not. Thats what Ultimate Truth is . 

You are thinking relatively. When you realize you are GOD , you realize other people are dreamed up by you and are fictional . 

God is One. You cant say I am GOD and I am having my own experience and You are GOD too having your own experience. This implies two GODs exist or simply duality.

There are no two experiences. Its a duality.