God realization is part interpretation, isn't it?

[RMQualtrough]

I've noticed that DURING very intense "mystical experiences", thoughts stop entirely, such that you aren't interpreting what's happening. It's just happening, period. I've found generally that if there is any thought it is more instinctive feelings like maybe a fixation about not breathing.

In the past I've had ideas like trying some Buddhist type chanting while smoking DMT. And I find that as it hits more and more I start finding it very difficult to continue chanting and then eventually just go "hmm......." and fall totally silent.

Surely all heavy breakthrough trips are thematically the same when there is ego death etc. But then when back, we all necessarily interpret that experience. Probably why Buddhist and Hindu sages teach different "truths" despite surely having gone through the same experience.

Every person like Leo is communicating interpretation, because you can't communicate experience (like you can't make a blind person see red). Most interpretations diverge into being very similar. But I do wonder if any interpretation can be accurate...

I experienced emptiness first hand (where I became literally nothing - think like, being an eye trying to see itself, but the eye isn't even made of anything), and also the experience where the self vanishes entirely and there is only experience, and I can see how this could be interpreted as the self not existing, not just being substantially made of nothingness... Experiences are absolutely true in terms of the fact they are happening (and even a "false" experience IS an experience which is happening), and I know with intense clarity what I experienced and what things are certainly true. But how does one be certain that the thoughts which kick in after the fact are accurate?

[Leo Gura]

No!

[RMQualtrough]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No!

@Leo Gura "No" is correct during the trip/experience/non-experience (people will use different words, all meaning the same thing).

After the fact, there are varying reports which roughly diverge, but aren't 1:1. If 100 people go to a Bufo ceremony and smoke a release dose, you'll get 100 different reports which do converge into conveying "Oneness", but there are slight differences...

If I implanted the exact trips I have experienced into your brain, you may come back and post something different as compared to how I would try to word it. Though more or less attempting to somehow get at the same sort of thing.

[Leo Gura]

Stop trying to access Truth through the words of others. This is foolishness.

The only one who will awaken is you. Forget about everyone else.

[Tim R]

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

But how does one be certain that the thoughts which kick in after the fact are accurate?

What might kick in after experiencing Truth, is doubt. Doubt is a function of mind. When there is no mind, there is no doubt.

The only way you can be certain of Truth is by directly accessing it. The mistake would be to try to subject Truth to doubt and then to look for an answer that comes as a result of this doubt. Because whatever answer you will come up with that way, it won't be the Truth. Because Truth is beyond mind. Beyond interpretation. Beyond any box.

You cannot doubt Truth. Truth is utterly and completely beyond and outside of the grasp of doubt. 

The potential for delusion extremely high of course. But only so long as there is mind. 

No mind = no delusion

Unfortunately, the mind is extremely subtle and sneaky and will always find a way of making itself invisible to itself, so that it appears as if the interpretation one comes up with is Truth. But Truth is not subject to interpretation. 

That is why Lao Tse said that the Dao that can be uttered is not the eternal Dao. That is where language fails completely. 

There is no fool proof way, that's the reality of it. Just keep doing the work, try to be intelligent & stay humble.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

But how does one be certain that the thoughts which kick in after the fact are accurate?

How can you be sure that any of your thoughts are accurate?

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

But how does one be certain that the thoughts which kick in after the fact are accurate?

Cessation. 

4 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

thoughts stop entirely, such that you aren't interpreting what's happening.

Nothing’s happening. 

[Manusia]

@Nahm  

Do you think awakening experience is always permanent? 

[Nahm]

@Manusia

Who experiences awakening?

[Manusia]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Manusia

Who experiences awakening?

I cannot say it is awakening or not. Or do I know who is awaken. I think it is still unfolding, but hey.. What the fuck. Is this ALL I AM? Anything, the coming, the passing, the thinking or anything that I imagine and not imagined.. This everythingness.. Is this what awakening is? Or still I am dreaming? But this is feel like dream at the same time. 

Even pain and uncomfort.. It is me. The hell. What is? 

I am feel more merged. Hey hey hey. Bro. 

[Nahm]

@Manusia

Meditation. Then when thoughts about this is what awakening is, or I’m awake, or my awakening(s), or levels of how awake I am etc arise, the ego / spiritual ego so to speak (thought attachment) doesn’t ‘hijack’ what is in actuality of course itself, with contextualizing / thinking / thoughts - beliefs. 

If emotionally difficult in regard to what empties out via daily meditation, the emotional scale. 

For making sense of the whole ‘situation’… create a dreamboard. 

[Manusia]

@Nahm

I cannot argue with you, I dont know shit anymore. 

13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Manusia

Meditation. Then when thoughts about this is what awakening is, or I’m awake, or my awakening(s), or levels of how awake I am etc arise, the ego / spiritual ego so to speak (thought attachment) doesn’t ‘hijack’ what is in actuality of course itself, with contextualizing / thinking / thoughts - beliefs. 

It cannot at all. It is direct understanding. Implicit, thinking and conceptualizing is the part of IT. And this what I understood now. And awakening is like conscious move. When I arrived, like the action of awakening is my act. I can awake but weirdly, I cannot control when I was sleep and want to be awake.. I can't clap my fingertips to be awake. Maybe I am too newbie in this field. 

And why there is love in my awareness when I was awake? Why it is purely big love? Why love? Not anything else? 

Thanks Nahm for your information, I would learn all that you linked to. 

[Nahm]

11 minutes ago, Manusia said:

And why there is love in my awareness when I was awake?

That is an example of thoughts arising about my awareness & when I was awake. 

Quote

Why it is purely big love? Why love? Not anything else? 

And that is an example of thoughts arising about an it and a why. 

?? 

As only a pointer, notice not only the conceptualizing, but the justification & rationalizing of the conceptualizing. 

[RMQualtrough]

@Tim R The headspace where delusion is impossible is something we have been in (most due to heavy psychedelics I think?) but it then fades back to sobriety.

When I think about heavy breakthrough trips, during the trip, there wasn't really any thought going on whatsoever. Writing about the trip after sobering up is where thoughts and such took place. It can be quite difficult to separate the actuality of the content of these transcendent type experiences from logical interpretation.

I text people right after like "I just met God" (there was no being, it's just my feeling at the time), or write on reports I "visited heaven".

Edited January 26, 2022 by RMQualtrough

[johnlocke18]

@Leo Gura Why is it you always go to everyone else should question themself but not you? How do you know your experience is accurate? He has a point, and your only point when people have one you can’t avoid is it’s true because you think and says so. Like god dude you’ve turned into a cult leader and don’t realize it, or you do and you’re proud of talking shit for a living. 

[Leo Gura]

I questioned myself until it killed me.

[Terell Kirby]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I questioned myself until it killed me.

Yes .. is everyone here willing to kill themselves (not physically of course), to get to the Truth?

How can one kill themselves without physically dying? It is possible .. to figure it out would mean you have awakened .

A burning desire is the only thing that will get you there .. not intellectualizing, not more concepts and not more gurus..

[johnlocke18]

@Leo Gura You used to be so inspirational and help people, but now you’ve gone down in the dumps and convinced yourself you’re getting better. Most people stopped taking you seriously and for good reason, it’s not because they’re not on your level. You could’ve actually started pursuing things when you had people following, but now All you do is talk about how high you got and think it’s significant because of the suggestions already being in your head. 

[Leo Gura]

@johnlocke18 I warned you that I if you don't grow with me I will outgrow you.

[WelcometoReality]

18 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

I've noticed that DURING very intense "mystical experiences", thoughts stop entirely, such that you aren't interpreting what's happening. It's just happening, period. I've found generally that if there is any thought it is more instinctive feelings like maybe a fixation about not breathing.

In the past I've had ideas like trying some Buddhist type chanting while smoking DMT. And I find that as it hits more and more I start finding it very difficult to continue chanting and then eventually just go "hmm......." and fall totally silent.

Surely all heavy breakthrough trips are thematically the same when there is ego death etc. But then when back, we all necessarily interpret that experience. Probably why Buddhist and Hindu sages teach different "truths" despite surely having gone through the same experience.

Every person like Leo is communicating interpretation, because you can't communicate experience (like you can't make a blind person see red). Most interpretations diverge into being very similar. But I do wonder if any interpretation can be accurate...

Yes it seems like all interpretations of experiences are just that. 

What is it that wants to label the interpretation "accurate" or "not accurate". Isn't that more interpretation?

18 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

But how does one be certain that the thoughts which kick in after the fact are accurate?

Is there actually an accurate way to interpret?