Jim Newman, Tony Parsons, & Similar "Uncompromising" Non-Dual Teachers

[Consilience]

52 minutes ago, axiom said:

It strikes me that much of the reticence around the uncompromising messages of Jim Newman and Tony Parsons is to do with ego, i.e. attachment to a spiritual identity and in particular the misapprehension that so many years of seeking and practicing must count for something.

I would say this is possible, and equally and perhaps more possible for Jim Newman and Tony Parsons followers. How enticing would it be to jump to the end of the path? To feel accomplished, like I finally got it! Rather than the honest and at times painful admittance that I don’t know. The ego hates not knowing. It seeks answers, security, assurance, invulnerability, all of which Neo Advaita provide to its followers. 
 

In my own experience, it’s not that “so many years of seeking and practice must count for something.” It’s more like I am continually and utterly humbled by the depth of this path, work, what is possible, and simultaneously how much “Ive done” and how much further there is to go.
 

It would be like a casual gym goer telling a professional bodybuilder yeah lifting weights may help some with growing muscle, but it’s all about nutrition anyways. How does the bodybuilder respond? 

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

I would say this is possible, and equally and perhaps more possible for Jim Newman and Tony Parsons followers. How enticing would it be to jump to the end of the path? To feel accomplished, like I finally got it! Rather than the honest and at times painful admittance that I don’t know. The ego hates not knowing. It seeks answers, security, assurance, invulnerability, all of which Neo Advaita provide to its followers. 
 

In my own experience, it’s not that “so many years of seeking and practice must count for something.” It’s more like I am continually and utterly humbled by the depth of this path, work, what is possible, and simultaneously how much “Ive done” and how much further there is to go.
 

It would be like a casual gym goer telling a professional bodybuilder yeah lifting weights may help some with growing muscle, but it’s all about nutrition anyways. How does the bodybuilder respond? 

This is the definition of Spiritual Materialism which Jim Newman speaks about....

Think it might be time for some lessons.

❤ 

[axiom]

2 hours ago, Consilience said:

How enticing would it be to jump to the end of the path? To feel accomplished, like I finally got it! Rather than the honest and at times painful admittance that I don’t know. The ego hates not knowing.

This is actually the same point being made by Jim Newman and Tony Parsons as far as I can see. Yes, there is such a thing as adopting ideas and parroting them, but that does not make the message itself flawed. It is equally easy to adopt the idea of "an easy path" as it is to adopt the idea of "a difficult path". Both are seductive in their own ways. If your identity is wrapped up with or predisposed to one, you'll be disinclined to accept the other.

In truth, the path is irrelevant. 

2 hours ago, Consilience said:

It would be like a casual gym goer telling a professional bodybuilder yeah lifting weights may help some with growing muscle, but it’s all about nutrition anyways. How does the bodybuilder respond? 

I think the bodybuilder in this example says "you're wrong, it's all about lifting weights".

Edited January 28, 2022 by axiom

[The0Self]

5 hours ago, Consilience said:

jump to the end of the path

It's a gateless gate. A pathless path. An endless end. A beginning-less beginning.

7 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

the cosmic joke

That there is no reality, no finitude, and no separation in the first place? I'd certainly say that's both a tragic and hilarious cosmic joke!

[Consilience]

19 minutes ago, The0Self said:

It's a gateless gate. A pathless path. An endless end. A beginning-less beginning.

And yet only a fool doesn’t pass through, walk, begin, or end. 

[The0Self]

Just now, Consilience said:

And yet only a fool doesn’t pass through, walk, begin, or end. 

Yep. That's "being stuck."

[axiom]

6 hours ago, Consilience said:

And yet only a fool doesn’t pass through, walk, begin, or end. 

There are no fools. There is no volition involved in any path one appears to take.

Edited January 29, 2022 by axiom

[Ulax]

Haven't seen there stuff, but if your description is true to life, then i dislike them. Sounds bypassy and narcy

[Breakingthewall]

There is no self, it is an illusion. reality is a limitless void pretending to be something. apparent reality and infinite nothingness are the same. yes yes, all this is the starting point of spirituality. being able to see every moment the illusion of reality is a big step. everything is illusion.

but obviously there is more. It is not that the ego wants to find something and all that, it is that it is evident. you are, and you are in unlimited depth, void source of love, sacred plenitude. say: there is nothing, I am already enlightened. stop fooling yourself, there's nothing. all of this sounds like you are stuck, that there is a part of you unable to open up. 

 

[Consilience]

3 hours ago, axiom said:

There are no fools. There is no volition involved in any path one appears to take.

Are you speaking from belief or direct experience? How can you trust your answer either way?

[axiom]

33 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Are you speaking from belief or direct experience? How can you trust your answer either way?

A bit of both. Once the self disappears, it is obvious that it could never have been responsible for anything... because it never existed at all.

The human mind feels like it operates with agency, of course. But that is part of the illusion of self. When trapped in dualism at the human level, one seemingly cannot operate independently of all the cause and effect relationships of the universe.

[The0Self]

There can simply be the obviousness that there's no one who has ever done a single thing ever nor will there be nor could there be.

[Consilience]

11 minutes ago, The0Self said:

There can simply be the obviousness that there's no one who has ever done a single thing ever nor will there be nor could there be.

That obviousness can be extremely shallow, or extremely clear. And even still, this clear seeing doesn’t reveal “what am I?”

[The0Self]

3 hours ago, Consilience said:

That obviousness can be extremely shallow, or extremely clear. And even still, this clear seeing doesn’t reveal “what am I?”

What I am is never exactly revealed. Or, one could say, it's revealed that I am undefinable infinity. Or rather all existential questions are revealed to rest upon false assumptions -- namely: that there is a reality in which contingent things really happen. It is well within the capacity of boundless infinity to appear as a reality and a complete universe, without that universe actually even needing to exist.

Edited January 29, 2022 by The0Self

[VeganAwake]

It can be recognized that this identity called ME is not a real separate individual with free will but simply a product of its surrounding conditioning. 

The religion, the beliefs, the thoughts, the ideas, the concepts, the acquired knowledge become like a web or bundle of identity that feels centered or localized within the body 

In fact if that same body would have been born in rural china it would appear to be a completely separate identity with totally different conditioning.... different religion, beliefs, ideas, concepts, thoughts, acquired knowledge and so on.

But when all these different pieces that seem to make up this so-called self construct are broken down it can be recognized that there's just NO ONE ACTUALLY THERE.

The individual is an illusion.... there's no one really there underneath this conditioning.

When this is seen clearly by no one, this tight wound self construct can start to loosen up and fall apart or unravel sort of speak.

This so-called opinionated and needy individual along with all its beliefs, values, concepts and worldviews can start to collapse which is often referred to as awakening or enlightenment.

❤ 

 

 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

But when all these different pieces that seem to make up this so-called self construct are broken down it can be recognized that there's just NO ONE ACTUALLY THERE.

that is a great awakening, the beginning of spirituality. you know what you are not. Now the real deal is knowing what you are. something more subtle, since you are nothing, and yet you are. 

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

that is a great awakening, the beginning of spirituality. you know what you are not. Now the real deal is knowing what you are. something more subtle, since you are nothing, and yet you are. 

Well it's recognizing there never was a beginning or an end because the individual that believes it's on a spiritual path getting somewhere isn't real.

It's the end of seeking because the only thing attempting to know was an illusion of self.

There isn't a real you already in which could discover it's true self or nature.

The experience that "you are" is simply the bodily senses coupled with the illusion of being self aware..... often referred to as Maya!

❤ 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

13 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Well it's recognizing there never was a beginning or an end because the individual that believes it's on a spiritual path getting somewhere isn't real.

It's the end of seeking because the only thing attempting to know was an illusion of self.

There isn't a real you already in which could discover it's true self or nature.

The experience that "you are" is simply the bodily senses coupled with the illusion of being self aware..... often referred to as Maya!

❤ 

 

 

18 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

 

 I just opened the site knowing that you were going to say exactly this ?. what you say is true, the individual who is searching is not real and the search does not lead to an end, everything is maya. if you remove maya, there is nothing left, absolutely nothing. and yet you are. and yet maya returns, and you are the apparent experience that does not happen to anyone. is a deeper mystery than the certainty that the individual is unreal. .

although on the other hand, the individual is unreal, as you say, and it does not matter at all what he discovers or not, what he seeks or not. the reality is that infinity is impersonal and the perceiving individual is a fiction, like everything else, that is formed in the infinity, which is still infinite and formless but it seems the opposite. you really are infinity, and that's like saying you're nothing, but not exactly the same. you are nothing defined, but you are.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[VeganAwake]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 I just opened the site knowing that you were going to say exactly this ?. what you say is true, the individual who is searching is not real and the search does not lead to an end, everything is maya. if you remove maya, there is nothing left, absolutely nothing. and yet you are. and yet maya returns, and you are the apparent experience that does not happen to anyone. is a deeper mystery than the certainty that the individual is unreal. .

although on the other hand, the individual is unreal, as you say, and it does not matter at all what he discovers or not, what he seeks or not. the reality is that infinity is impersonal and the perceiving individual is a fiction, like everything else, that is formed in the infinity, which is still infinite and formless but it seems the opposite. you really are infinity, and that's like saying you're nothing, but not exactly the same. you are nothing defined, but you are.

Yeah it's totally radical.

The universe is like a grain of sand on an infinite beach... nothing matters at all!

It's complete freedom!

There's nothing that needs to be done or not done, discovered or not discovered!

There is no goal that needs to be fulfilled.

I watch people running around all day trying to make something happen.... slaves of the egoic agenda, and it's recognized there is nothing right or wrong with that.

It's perfectly what's happening!

❤ 

 

[ChrisZoZo]

On 1/26/2022 at 3:01 PM, TheAlchemist said:

Who needs another Rupert Spira or Mooji? They are beautiful teachers as they are, we don't need more of the same style. Diversity baby! 

Mooji advocates diversity in spirituality   

Edited February 6, 2022 by ChrisZoZo