Jim Newman, Tony Parsons, & Similar "Uncompromising" Non-Dual Teachers

[Nahm]

There isn’t anyone who understands the message, that’s the message. That would include so called teachers. Intuition isn’t judgmental. Out of it & depersonalization are felt as conceptualizations. 

[roopepa]

29 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Because one will be shocked at their naivety 3 days ago on a constant basis -- it's that swift.

YES 

 

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Fearless_Bum said:

@The0Self agreed, the majority of what we think is the path is really just thoughts about the path and getting enlightened. 

All it takes is a tiny peek into silence and boom, shit starts to get real fast ?.

 

1 hour ago, roopepa said:

YES 

 

 

Definitely.

Some thoughts on this stuff:

Enlightenment has nothing to do with expansion of consciousness, which can be done via psychedelics, meditation, and spiritual practice. So this comment is very much not dealing with things on that level -- and "that level" is where all the fun stuff is, so this comment has no purpose. On "that level," a powerful technique I can offer is to ignore current life circumstances and remain in your chosen reality until it appears... Anyway, enough of that...

There is no here, so there is no there. There's no one here nor over there, there's just this non-contextual appearance fluctuating in and as pure emptiness / "nondual consciousness." There's just this singular appearance, and even this is not, yet also is not separate from the is-ness that is all there is. All there is is all there is.

*** Ever looked at a still pond with trees around and clouds in the sky? In the reflection, the trees and clouds (and birds, etc) look like they're far apart from each other (in 3D), but of course it's an illusion because it's all just the still surface of the water of the pond. So to with consciousness. But extrapolate that to all dimensions, not just that "flatness." And also extrapolate that to time as well. There is literally no separation of any kind at all, whatsoever.

 

No character is any better or worse (or even "further along") than any apparent other character. All are equally perfect expressions of wholeness.

*** Truth / Nothing / Unconditional Love / Infinitude with/as its infinite power is longing for its own absence, i.e. it's longing for something. In this imaginary something, this Nothing seems to appear as a someone who longs for its absence, which is this already. The infinite is timeless. It can't be any other way, because where Nothing is... you seem to be, and it's unimaginable that you are Nothing, so a witness or person is extrapolated to be where that Nothing obviously is, and that alone is the root of what we call ignorance.

What is longed for will never come, because it is already. If you (not necessarily you, just generally speaking for onlookers) cannot see this, it's because you don't know what you means. How to find what you means? It is you who must find out.

One who thinks they have attained personal gain from enlightenment is neither enlightened nor a seeker -- they are locked in impenetrable illusion.

The Self alone is real -- there are no others. That's the whole "teaching."

There is just what seems to play out -- i.e. nobody ever does anything, as there isn't anyone separate from The Infinite to do so.

 

It seems the three ways this process can unfold (in the story) are:

(all are attempts to get closer to what already is, so... even though they "work," they do not make any sense)

(and they aren't even actually practices despite how they may appear, they're actually pointers)

1. Surrender

Surrender to the higher/highest power all personal desire and will. Relax all voluntary action and inaction to nil. Very simple. Surrender to God all the world's problems, including your own. It must be attempted at all times. It's impossible to do at all times, but the culmination of the practice is when it happens all the time automatically without any burden of effort.

     (a) A preliminary practice for surrender (or any of the three) is something called Karma Yoga. If one successfully keeps the mighty infinite intelligence of God fully in mind, they will not care about anything including even the results of their own actions... Attempt to do just that. God in its ineffable infinitude knows best, and there is only the infinite, so if you identify as a finite being, you can be certain that this particular "you" is not actually doing anything of its own will. Karma becomes unselfish and the real process (one of the three) can then begin. Sri Krishna's instructions for Karma Yoga, from the Bhagavad Gita: 1) Do your duty, but do not concern yourself with the results. 2) The fruits of your actions are not for your enjoyment. 3) Even while working, give up the pride of doership. 4) Do not be attached to inaction.

2. Self inquiry

Find the source of your self; where the I comes from. Who am I? The Self is pure nondual awareness. There is no way nor need to cultivate or attain it. All you have to do is give up being aware of other things... that is, of the not-self -- any objects or thoughts one is aware of. Turn away from all objects separate from you (experienced by you). Whatever you know as an object, including even the witness, is not you -- you are aware of all of it, and none of it (i.e. none of whatever you appear to be conscious of) is you. Use everything (all objects) as merely a reminder to you that you are aware of it, and hunt for that one who is aware, until the spaciousness is revealed, and when you fall out of it, do it again, and attempt this at all times. It is crucial that it is done at all times, as crazy as that sounds (though it will make sense in the end just how much it doesn't make sense). It's impossible to do at all times, but the culmination of the practice is when it happens all the time automatically without any burden of effort. Realization is not something new -- I am that I am; the only truth is that there is truth. You're looking for how you know that you are, to the exclusion of all else -- that is the Self.

3. Spiritual Autolysis (Jed McKenna's technique)

Preferably in writing, exclaim what you know for sure, and then find out how it's actually untrue. Until nothing is left. At the end it can get quite painful when all that's left is stuff like "I am a good person." But in the end, even though all is lost, nothing was lost.

Edited January 26, 2022 by The0Self

[Batman]

Newman and Parsons take no prisoners 

[VictorB02]

12 hours ago, Consilience said:

The Neo Advaita message and “enlightenment” is pathetically half backed compared to true Liberation, true Freedom, true Enlightenment. The nothing and non-message of a Zen master is in an entirely other dimension compared to “Uncompromising Non-duality,” which is just fast food for the spiritual ego eager to cling to false attainments, and partial awakenings. The conceptual map may sound so good, but to truly embody what is being pointed towards takes relentless purification of mind and authentic awakening, both of which don’t happen mentally masturbating to “non-messages.”

So many traps, so many traps. As one develops in their practice, it starts to become increasingly obvious who’s the real deal. Ive yet to find any of these Neo Advaita teachers who is.

Bottom line - keep going ?

Those are my feelings put perfectly into words. Thanks for sharing.

[VictorB02]

@Leo Gura I would love to hear your thoughts on if you think Jim, Tony, and these "Uncompromising" teachers have went "all the way" with awakening, or if they are deluding themselves? I know there is no way to know for sure, but with your experience It would be interesting to hear your take

[roopepa]

12 hours ago, The0Self said:

Enlightenment has nothing to do with expansion of consciousness, which can be done via psychedelics, meditation, and spiritual practice. So this comment is very much not dealing with things on that level -- and "that level" is where all the fun stuff is, so this comment has no purpose.

I don't really care about tripping and mystical experiences that much.

Life - wise, I want to live happily, I want a family, an inspiring carreer, beautiful art, nature, friendship, tears of joy, well-being of all humanity.

And I want eternal home. I want true peace. I want to end suffering. I want heaven on earth. Is this what you refer to as enlightenment?

[Michal__]

Try to listen to Newman while doing a technique like breath counting or body scanning. You will get many insights and get a taste for what they're talking about.

[Raptorsin7]

4 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

Try to listen to Newman while doing a technique like breath counting or body scanning. You will get many insights and get a taste for what they're talking about.

Why don't they discuss this?

[Michal__]

7 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Why don't they discuss this?

Because they've probably never tried it.

Their pointers are amazing though (when your mind is in a state good enough to benefit from them).

[gettoefl]

get up and meditate, don't skip the work, no matter what youtube tells you

[LfcCharlie4]

21 hours ago, Consilience said:

 

The Neo Advaita message and “enlightenment” is pathetically half backed compared to true Liberation, true Freedom, true Enlightenment. The nothing and non-message of a Zen master is in an entirely other dimension compared to “Uncompromising Non-duality,” which is just fast food for the spiritual ego eager to cling to false attainments, and partial awakenings. The conceptual map may sound so good, but to truly embody what is being pointed towards takes relentless purification of mind and authentic awakening, both of which don’t happen mentally masturbating to “non-messages.”

So many traps, so many traps. As one develops in their practice, it starts to become increasingly obvious who’s the real deal. Ive yet to find any of these Neo Advaita teachers who is.

Bottom line - keep going ?

 

+1000

 

[Inliytened1]

26 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

 

+1000

@Consilience @LfcCharlie4+1001

 

[The0Self]

8 hours ago, roopepa said:

And I want eternal home. I want true peace. I want to end suffering. I want heaven on earth. Is this what you refer to as enlightenment?

Enlightenment is simply the truth. There is no I to it. It is not want-able. How could one want what is already the case?

[Gidiot]

You could meditate for 40 years and nothing could happen, that seems like a trap to me too.

The perspective I enjoy is just that whatever is happening is happening and it’s all divine will so in that there is peace no need to listen to teacher or not listen to them

[gettoefl]

43 minutes ago, Gidiot said:

You could meditate for 40 years and nothing could happen, that seems like a trap to me too.

The perspective I enjoy is just that whatever is happening is happening and it’s all divine will so in that there is peace no need to listen to teacher or not listen to them

you cannot do a thing to accelerate it but you can do a million thing to remove obstacles in case existence wants to bestow favor on you

[roopepa]

2 hours ago, The0Self said:

Enlightenment is simply the truth. There is no I to it. It is not want-able. How could one want what is already the case?

So there is only truth, no person to know the truth, no enlightened people.?

Does ego-deaths and god-realizations have anything to do with this? Is there even such a thing as ego?

One could as well be thinking about puppies and flowers as existential and metaphysical questions?

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, The0Self said:

Enlightenment is simply the truth. There is no I to it. It is not want-able. How could one want what is already the case?

You're on fire

 

[The0Self]

17 minutes ago, roopepa said:

So there is only truth, no person to know the truth, no enlightened people.?

Does ego-deaths and god-realizations have anything to do with this? Is there even such a thing as ego?

One could as well be thinking about puppies and flowers as existential and metaphysical questions?

Yes.

No. No.

I don't know.

16 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You're on fire

 

[Consilience]

5 hours ago, Gidiot said:

You could meditate for 40 years and nothing could happen, that seems like a trap to me too.

The perspective I enjoy is just that whatever is happening is happening and it’s all divine will so in that there is peace no need to listen to teacher or not listen to them

This would only happen with very poor meditation instructions, very poor effort, no teacher or community, and no real consistent extended retreat practice. As one develops their practice, these things naturally align. I have no clue where this idea that one could meditate for 40 years and nothing happens comes from on this forum. 

No idea where this attraction to polar ends of the spectrum on this forum come from either:

1) Meditation is useless - Psychedelics are the way

2) Meditation is useless - THIS is it. Meditation is just ego. 

Interesting how both diminish the value of sitting.

There's pretty much 2 premises one needs to start with to understand meditation as a path to Enlightenment. If you don't accept these premises, you're screwed. 

1) Reality has the capacity to shroud itself in illusion and ignorance.

- In its infinite capacity, it has the capacity for existential self-deception. 

2) Reality can be seen more clearly through paying attention.

- As magical as this may seem, if we pay attention, we understand more deeply; you don't accept this, again you're screwed. 

Craving, aversion, and attachment push and pull on perception, creating this mirage and illusion. Craving, aversion, and attachment are how perception *appears* when one's mind and by extension, infinite consciousness, doesn't have the capacity to deeply pay attention. Perception appears to fight with itself due to a lack of existential clarity. 

The great news is we can train ourselves, or rather, consciousness can begin to pay attention. As it pays attention, Truth is revealed. As Truth is revealed through this purification or cultivation of perceptual non-interference, suffering is uprooted and an underlying happiness, the only invulnerable form of happiness (spoiler - it's formless), is seen. 

The paradox is that this Truth was always so, hence why it is THE TRUTH. Yet, this Truth is so grandiose, so infinite, so paradoxically twisted, it even has the capacity to appear as not truth.

Meditation is simply the path by which we're revealing what has already been so, a clear seeing through all delusional movements of mind. 

If you think you're work is complete, you're living a very privileged, comfortable, life. If the harshness of reality were to reveal itself, the Neo Advaitan would crumble. One's capacity for suffering is a true mark of how much one is actually conscious of truth. Meditation is the path by which this fundamental conundrum is no only uprooted, but by which one's mind is transparent enough for consciousness to awaken to itself.