Jim Newman, Tony Parsons, & Similar "Uncompromising" Non-Dual Teachers

[VictorB02]

I just stumbled upon Jim Newman's and Tony Parsons "non-teaching" on YouTube and watched their videos for a solid 4 hours during work, 

Am I crazy or is something off here? I mean, I understand the message - there is no individual self and no one to become enlightened, but I just intuit this is very rigid, one-dimensional, and lifeless view of spirituality. Rupert Spira and Mooji have a similar message, but I feel they are willing to meet the questioner where they are at and not just reply in a robotic "this is it" way everytime. I also feel a tangible sense of Love & Peace from Rupert & Mooji that I do not feel from speakers like Jim Newman and Tony Parsons.

-

After watching, I felt "out-of-it" and depersonalized. And not in a no-self spiritual way, just in a confusion way. 

Anyways, I guess I was just curious as to what the actualized community thought of Jim and others like Tony. Do you feel this non-teaching is bypassing or some sort? Or is this my ego resisting the Truth they speak of?

Either way, cheers!

Edited January 26, 2022 by VictorB02
minor text edit

[Gili Trawangan]

What I find most displeasing is that they talk of their "non-teachings" as rare and special, and often make disparaging comments about other spiritual teachers and traditions. They make no attempt to bridge the gap, when it's clearly the same realization which is behind all teachings, including theirs.

On the other hand, I find their message useful for when we are clinging to any kind of self-image or conceptualization. It kind of pulls the rug from under your feet.

Is it warm and fluffy? Absolutely not. But there's a time and place I guess... I sometimes watch Jim Newman and enjoy it. Nothing else.

[Salvijus]

Never saw a single video of them but I don't like them already ? 

Watch some J.Krishnamurti better. A much higher quality, authentic material. Or stay with Mooji and Spira.

Everybody can fake enlightenment by saying the self is not. But peace and harmony cannot be faked. It's a sign of truth. It's a good indication that material is authentic and good quality.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Salvijus

[Leo Gura]

Not all roads lead to the same realizations. There are many different kinds of realizations. This is huge confusion among students: they assume it's all just the same. It isn't.

[Salvijus]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not all roads lead to the same realizations. There are many different kinds of realizations. This is huge confusion among students: they assume it's all just the same. It isn't.

Does the question, who am I, has many different realizations? Or is it the same realization in different degrees of comprehenshion?

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Does the question, who am I, has many different realizations? Or is it the same realization in different degrees of comprehenshion?

Both. There are various degrees but there are also various facets.

Who you are is so vast that you can explore it for a lifetime.

[Matthew85]

@VictorB02 I haven't followed Jim Newman's or Tony Parsons teachings, but if intuitively anything ever feels off or isn't resonating, trust that. In my own journey over the last 16 years, I found many well meaning, but very confused people. Often sharing teachings that are a mixture of truth and highly distorted concepts and ideas. You have all the answers. You just have to be willing to do the work rather than relying on someone else to give you their truth. 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Matthew85

[The0Self]

It's pointing to what enlightenment is. Anyone who achieves it will say something along the lines of: "where the fuck is enlightenment?" Since there's no one left to be enlightened. It is most certainly not spiritual in any way, even though it is what all spirituality is pointing to. However, what does spirituality often function as? It functions as the guardian of this state -- preventing it from happening by offering hope, when enlightenment involves absolutely no hope whatsoever.

The non-teachings you mention are the most direct possible pointings, take it or leave it. Essentially.

[mandyjw]

Jim's talks seem pretty mundane, funny, direct, simple, etc, on the surface but every once in awhile he drops a jaw-dropping, flooring insight or comment, usually in the same dismissive tone and for some reason no one talks about this. "No one talks about this." ?‍♀️

I think all teachings can be taken on as a dualistic understanding, (belief) until they aren't. It's meant to liberate, not as an ideal. 

[TheAlchemist]

Who needs another Rupert Spira or Mooji? They are beautiful teachers as they are, we don't need more of the same style. Diversity baby! 

[VictorB02]

9 hours ago, Gili Trawangan said:

What I find most displeasing is that they talk of their "non-teachings" as rare and special, and often make disparaging comments about other spiritual teachers and traditions. They make no attempt to bridge the gap, when it's clearly the same realization which is behind all teachings, including theirs.

On the other hand, I find their message useful for when we are clinging to any kind of self-image or conceptualization. It kind of pulls the rug from under your feet.

Is it warm and fluffy? Absolutely not. But there's a time and place I guess... I sometimes watch Jim Newman and enjoy it. Nothing else.

That's what I felt and thought too. A deep realization into no-self maybe? But love... not sure about that. It just seems so odd that they are unwilling to have a normal conversation. It reminds me of a bypassing of the last Ox-Herding photos where the sage comes back into town as just another normal being.

[VictorB02]

8 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Never saw a single video of them but I don't like them already ? 

Watch some J.Krishnamurti better. A much higher quality, authentic material. Or stay with Mooji and Spira.

Everybody can fake enlightenment by saying the self is not. But peace and harmony cannot be faked. It's a sign of truth. It's a good indication that material is authentic and good quality.

I absolutely agree. Krishnamurti resonates with me as well.

[Fearless_Bum]

Spirituality in essence is simple, ego makes shit complicated. 

So of course you're going to absolutely hate all the "neo-advaitan" teachers out there (makes me laugh, it's like when JP says the "neo marxists"?). 

It's a powerful teaching method in my opinion, as it allows the gradual humbling of oneself to simplicity and just being happy without justifications.

[VictorB02]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not all roads lead to the same realizations. There are many different kinds of realizations. This is huge confusion among students: they assume it's all just the same. It isn't.

Thank you for this helpful reminder Leo. Very easy to forget

[VictorB02]

7 hours ago, Matthew85 said:

@VictorB02 I haven't followed Jim Newman's or Tony Parsons teachings, but if intuitively anything ever feels off or isn't resonating, trust that. In my own journey over the last 16 years, I found many well meaning, but very confused people. Often sharing teachings that are a mixture of truth and highly distorted concepts and ideas. You have all the answers. You just have to be willing to do the work rather than relying on someone else to give you their truth. 

 

I completely agree. Thank you for this beautiful reminder.

[VictorB02]

39 minutes ago, The0Self said:

It's pointing to what enlightenment is. Anyone who achieves it will say something along the lines of: "where the fuck is enlightenment?" Since there's no one left to be enlightened. It is most certainly not spiritual in any way, even though it is what all spirituality is pointing to. However, what does spirituality often function as? It functions as the guardian of this state -- preventing it from happening by offering hope, when enlightenment involves absolutely no hope whatsoever.

The non-teachings you mention are the most direct possible pointings, take it or leave it. Essentially.

Thank you for your response!

25 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Jim's talks seem pretty mundane, funny, direct, simple, etc, on the surface but every once in awhile he drops a jaw-dropping, flooring insight or comment, usually in the same dismissive tone and for some reason no one talks about this. "No one talks about this." ?‍♀️

I think all teachings can be taken on as a dualistic understanding, (belief) until they aren't. It's meant to liberate, not as an ideal. 

I would have to agree. Although "I" felt something missing during his talks, there were without a doubt few moments that absolutely resonated and left me deeply quiet inside.

23 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:

Who needs another Rupert Spira or Mooji? They are beautiful teachers as they are, we don't need more of the same style. Diversity baby! 

Diversity! I agree. It is beautiful to see all the different perspectives

[Consilience]

“If you don’t seek an invitation to hell, never slander the Tathagata’s teaching.”

- Shodoka, Song of Awakening

Buddha’s Zen

Buddha said: "I consider the positions of kings and rulers as that of dust motes. I observe treasures of gold and gems as so many bricks and pebbles. I look upon the finest silken robes as tattered rags. I see myriad worlds of the universe as small seeds of fruit, and the greatest lake in India as a drop of oil on my foot. I perceive the teachings of the world to be the illusion of magicians. I discern the highest conception of emancipation as a golden brocade in a dream, and view the holy path of the illuminated ones as flowers appearing in one's eyes. I see meditation as a pillar of a mountain, Nirvana as a nightmare of daytime. I look upon the judgment of right and wrong as the serpentine dance of a dragon, and the rise and fall of beliefs as but traces left by the four seasons."

- Zen Flesh, Zen Bones

 

The Neo Advaita message and “enlightenment” is pathetically half backed compared to true Liberation, true Freedom, true Enlightenment. The nothing and non-message of a Zen master is in an entirely other dimension compared to “Uncompromising Non-duality,” which is just fast food for the spiritual ego eager to cling to false attainments, and partial awakenings. The conceptual map may sound so good, but to truly embody what is being pointed towards takes relentless purification of mind and authentic awakening, both of which don’t happen mentally masturbating to “non-messages.”

So many traps, so many traps. As one develops in their practice, it starts to become increasingly obvious who’s the real deal. Ive yet to find any of these Neo Advaita teachers who is.

Bottom line - keep going ?

[VeganAwake]

 

 

[The0Self]

Btw, if one has been seeking enlightenment for more than 3 years and they think that's the path they've been on for those 3+ years, then they are mistaken. Once the process of awakening/unknowing begins, it ain't taking more than 2 years. Why? Because one will be shocked at their naivety 3 days ago on a constant basis -- it's that swift. It's a dehypnotization. It's highly likely going to be under 2 years, and probably more like 18 months, perhaps even 6 months. And when it ends, which it doesn't (it's quite paradoxical), none of your existential questions will be answered -- rather, the framework in which existential questions could make any sense will simply be no longer... All the questions were built upon false assumptions to begin with. And enlightenment doesn't make sense -- can't stress that enough -- thus revealing perfect sense. The great surprise is that there was only ever liberation, already -- immensely unexpected. The primary illusion hiding enlightenment, one could say, is the illusion of value and stakes. When there's no one left, even hardship is bliss, but for no one -- which is already the case.

Edited January 26, 2022 by The0Self

[Fearless_Bum]

@The0Self agreed, the majority of what we think is the path is really just thoughts about the path and getting enlightened. 

All it takes is a tiny peek into silence and boom, shit starts to get real fast ?.