Meeting someone at their spiral stage

[aklacor727]

One thing ive realized lately, is while I'm aware of the different spiral dynamics stages in people and how that translates into their worldview, values, etc, I do not tend to "meet them where they are at", and I speak from my spiral dynamics stage perspective during discussions and disagreements.

That got me thinking about what the benefit of meeting them would be and what that would look like.  I can see the benefit of connection, maybe even influence but I value authenticity and growth more which are more the benefits of speaking to them from my own stages perspectives.  If I am higher on the spiral, my perspectives could contribute to their growth ultimately by opening their mind and helping to make them aware. It does cause more clashing and tension in the discussion of course, but wouldnt that be more  beneficial ultimately for sake of growth?

For example, say the person I am conversing with has a lot of blue absolutist type thinking, and I am much more relativistic. With the gap of two stages, would things just go over their head? And in that case I could see the benefit of meeting them at their stage.. or maybe even jumping into orange thinking since that's the next stage they would progress to. 

I guess also I am weary of reinforcing their thinking when I am aware of the limits to it. 

How would you/do you approach this?

 

[mrPixel]

Most people aren't going to see things your way so trying to change someone's mind is not going to be fruitful.

I share my perspective and my experience and if the other person can't relate then I leave them alone. I might challenge them, but I'm not interested in changing their mind.

Peoples' views don't change until they get enough life experience to see the fault in their thinking. You have no control over what they experience.

Kindness and acceptance is a sign of spiritual maturity. Be curious about how people came to see things the way they do, be kind, and appreciate them for who they are.

If you have 5 minutes check out this video. Neuroscientist Tali Sharot shares some wisdom as to why you can't change someone's mind:

Be on the look out for thoughts like this:

2 hours ago, aklacor727 said:

If I am higher on the spiral...

Humility is the key to growth. Stop assuming you're superior and try to learn from everyone you meet. Everyone has something that you don't.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, aklacor727 said:

It does cause more clashing and tension in the discussion of course

Meeting them where they're at reduces clashing.

[aklacor727]

@mrPixel I will definitely watch that,  thanks!

I understand they are at their own point in life based on their experiences, but when I am in someone's life I do have control over how I approach the conversations, hence making this post. (These are people that are in my life on a day to day basis). 

Also, I see why that may have come off as me thinking I am superior, but the nature of this thread is about the spiral stages so a specific example that relates to my question I thought would be helpful for input.

Thanks for responding! 

 

[Windappreciator]

sounds like a boring thing to do, why would you wanna do that

[aklacor727]

@Leo Gura I meant when I approach them from my perspective/stage for the sake of authenticity, growth, etc, there is more clashing.... 

I would love a further opinion on this post if you had any input/ thoughts I would greatly appreciate hearing your view!

Do you tend to meet people at their stage, or just be yourself, share your thoughts,  and dont worry about it really? Say this is someone you see regularly? 

 

[mrPixel]

32 minutes ago, aklacor727 said:

@mrPixel I do have control over how I approach the conversations

How does honesty and kindness factor into you value system?

34 minutes ago, aklacor727 said:

I see why that may have come off as me thinking I am superior

No worries, it's something I do on the regular, I may have been projecting my shit onto you.

Cheers

[yetineti]

Very difficult topic, for myself. 
 

I see 3 big problems with meeting people on the spiral.

1. Not forcing higher perspectives.

2. Realizing you can stoop lower than you think. Obviously have to be respectful still - but respect looks different to some people and what you or how you should say something may be different than you think. You might think it is totally rude and it may be just what they needed to hear. (With caution)

3. The framing of ‘different stages’ can be both practical and impractical in conversation.

Edited January 24, 2022 by mw711

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, aklacor727 said:

Do you tend to meet people at their stage, or just be yourself, share your thoughts,  and dont worry about it really? Say this is someone you see regularly?

I sorta do both. But I am not pushy with my stage. I can talk about it but I will not push it too hard because I can sense when the person is not ready for it. And in general I do not talk about advanced stages with normies.

[Preety_India]

The goal of a discussion, debate and exchange should be to understand each other's perspectives and exchange of ideas. Not endlessly arguing. 

If you find the other person not understanding you, then simply leave the discussion. 

You're probably dealing with someone who is self righteous, Egotistical and dogmatic. No point in arguing with them. 

It is futile. 

[DocWatts]

Probably has everything to do with what stages you've integrated, and what stages you've developed a shadow around.

I don't find it too difficult to have productive cross-paradigmatic discussions when there's a shared context that can ground the discussion. On the contrary, I actually quite enjoy discussing metaphysics with people hitched to an Orange materialist paradigm because I understand where they're coming from, and it's something that I myself embodied earlier in my life and can empathize with.

Trying to do the same thing with say, Red, for example has typically been a frustrating experience because there's not a whole lot I can empathize with from the stage, even if on an intellectual level I realize that it's a necessary developmental stage.

Or more generally I suppose with someone living in a completely different version of Reality where there's not an easily identifiable place where the Venn diagrams overlap that can ground a productive cross-paradigmatic discussion.

Obviously this is a limitation of my own perspective, with Red for instance, it's only through the luck of the Birth lottery that I wasn't born in to challenging Survival circumstances where Red was necessary to meet my physical and emotional needs.

Edited January 24, 2022 by DocWatts

[aklacor727]

12 hours ago, mrPixel said:

How does honesty and kindness factor into you value system?

@mrPixel Definitely top of my list.  I'd say kindness slightly above honesty usually because I don't want to hurt people's feelings,  but if theres a way for me to communicate kindly and honestly at the same time that's definitely what I strive for.  Usually if I dont feel like I can do that i won't say much at all, unless I'm dealing with a stubborn person then my honesty might come out more than the kindness lol. Sometimes I think the stubborn ones are the ones that need to open their mind the most. But again,  I do realize they are at where they are at based on their experiences and all I can do is share my perspective,  not change their mind. 

[aklacor727]

@mw711 @Leo Gura

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I sorta do both. But I am not pushy with my stage. I can talk about it but I will not push it too hard because I can sense when the person is not ready for it. And in general I do not talk about advanced stages with normies

 

12 hours ago, mw711 said:

3. The framing of ‘different stages’ can be both practical and impractical in conversation.

Yeah its seeming like it just varies from situation to situation...

So you feel like if someone seems open minded you share your authentic thoughts? If the person starts to get defensive then maybe that's a sign to pull back? 

I think I am just not seeing much value to meeting people at their stage, other than the sake of connection and peace. I think I would rather be myself and if the connection drifts because we can't relate, then that's just what it is. Unless there is some other value to it im missing ?

[itachi uchiha]

look for people with your similar intrest .do not over specialize in sd

[aklacor727]

@DocWatts I love your nuanced response and self awareness with what you said about the red stage ?

Thinking about it, I dont feel I have much of a shadow around any of the stages probably because I didn't grow up with parents or a community where there was a lot of strong opinions, shaping my worldview, sense of self, etc. Was pretty neutral until I became an adult and started seeking things out for myself.  That being said, it's not that I get triggered by the other stages perspectives really its more now that I am just seeking for answers on when/ if I should try to meet them at their stage and what the value to doing so would even be. 

That's a good point what you said about having a shared context to ground the discussion. This way we can both stay at our stages but have a nice bridge between them.

[aklacor727]

@itachi uchiha I dont, it's just something I keep in mind. I agree people having similar interests would be ideal. 

[itachi uchiha]

@aklacor727 if u meet people with similar intrest, u do not need sd imo

[aklacor727]

@itachi uchiha true that.  But I will always come across people in different walks of life, plus family members that are in different stages, etc. So I think its helpful and interesting to think about the best way to approach things with that in mind

[DocWatts]

41 minutes ago, aklacor727 said:

@DocWatts I love your nuanced response and self awareness with what you said about the red stage ?

Thinking about it, I dont feel I have much of a shadow around any of the stages probably because I didn't grow up with parents or a community where there was a lot of strong opinions, shaping my worldview, sense of self, etc. Was pretty neutral until I became an adult and started seeking things out for myself.  That being said, it's not that I get triggered by the other stages perspectives really its more now that I am just seeking for answers on when/ if I should try to meet them at their stage and what the value to doing so would even be. 

That's a good point what you said about having a shared context to ground the discussion. This way we can both stay at our stages but have a nice bridge between them.

Thank you!

Perhaps someone more developed than myself can have a productive conversation with anyone in absence of that shared context

But for me I find that without some way to ground the conversation my other option is to cede Reality to that other person, which my ego isn't prepared to do. Or at least not for discussions around topics which have consequences in the real world.

Around the SD-Stages that I haven't fully integrated, this expresses itself as a defensiveness and me being less willing to give that person the benefit of the doubt that they're arguing in Good Faith.

While I don't niavely assume that every opposing view is operating in Good Faith all or even most of the time on every issue, I do have enough meta-awareness to recognize that I'm much more willing the benefit of the doubt towards Stages that I've integrated.

Of course meta-awareness is one thing, and translating that meta-awareness in to action is a lengthy process. Or at least it is for me, at any rate.

Edited January 24, 2022 by DocWatts

[yetineti]

@aklacor727

1 hour ago, aklacor727 said:

@mw711 @Leo Gura

 

Yeah its seeming like it just varies from situation to situation...

So you feel like if someone seems open minded you share your authentic thoughts? If the person starts to get defensive then maybe that's a sign to pull back? 

I think I am just not seeing much value to meeting people at their stage, other than the sake of connection and peace. I think I would rather be myself and if the connection drifts because we can't relate, then that's just what it is. Unless there is some other value to it im missing ?

Personally I see a lot of value in meeting people at their stage. I grew up arguing with people, so meeting them where they’re at seems like the best case scenario for me. The ability to do so seems to make interactions much smoother.

But that’s something I am working on. Like Leo said, sometimes they’re ready to hear something beyond themselves. That’s always fun, otherwise I just try to remember:

If I can’t meet them where they’re at, I don’t have to be a dick about it.