So like...what about goals and stuff

[spinderella]

On one hand I say I'm a believer in nonduality and have had some direct experience of oneness through meditation and the use of psychedelics.  I'm certainly not an enlightened being, but I deliberately work at evolving my state of consciousness on a regular basis. 

I notice that whenever I set a goal, I immediately feel the lack of having that thing that I want.  I can see that this is rooted in dualistic thinking - for example, I believe that having what I want is better than not having the thing I want.  I can see that ultimately, all is one, there's nothing to do, nothing to get, etc.  And I sometimes toy with the idea of saying well, no big deal, I'll just live life on this earth and do what I love be of service, whatever. 

But my brain argues with this.  It wants to set a goal, plan to achieve it, and go out there and get it - and I really definitely DO see that it's possible to set/plan/action toward a goal without thinking that it's better once I achieve it.  However, this is not the default setting I exist on. 

For example.  I purchased an investment property with four units in it.  I need to get four tenants in it.  I currently only have one.  I'm very attached to the outcome of my goal (ie: having four tenants), because when I have four tenants I will make profit, and when I have one tenant I will lose money every month.  This makes me feel anxious and all graspy trying to "fix" the situation.  I can see my belief is that making profit is good, and losing money is bad.  And, as a result, I'm turning my human experience into a ball of anxiety.  

Can someone help me look at my situation differently?  Of course I want to do all I can to make profit.  I don't think that's truly the issue.  I don't think desires are "bad".  But I don't know how to detach from the outcome.  Am I supposed to see that losing money is fine?  If losing money is fine, where does the motivation to make profit to come from?  I can see the fallacious belief under there that "motivation to make profit comes from anxiety about losing money", and I know intellectually that's not true, but it's currently how I'm living, and it's what I've done my whole life. 

I'm kind of stuck in this pattern in many areas of my life, but this is a simple obvious example.  If anyone can help me tease this apart I would be forever grateful!

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by spinderella

[Federico del pueblo]

@spinderella

I mean spirituality is all good and fine, but you have to survive first you know?

You could as well argue "oh...so if I don't eat I'll die, but does it matter?! Death is ok too, no need to be scared of death, let's just surrender to it".

Look, you are a mammal with a mammalian brain. In this brain are areas that motivate you to secure your survival and these areas are connected to your "higher thinking and planning ahead" areas that only humans posses.

When these areas sense that your survival or "future" survival is under threat they will activate a stress response in your body which makes you feel anxious so you start to take action to secure your survival.

This is normal and fine. I don't think that spirituality is about not having survival needs anymore, it's about being less attached to all kinds of things.

If you don't survive you won't practice spirituality.

Now could you still be less emotionally reactive to all these things like goals, attaining things etc.? That surely is possible.

Feelings of lack or being separated from a material thing can be transcended (probably in many ways) for sure, but I think you could still attain things even when you're unattached to the outcome, just for the fun of it, you know?

A feeling of lack is basically a feeling of inadequacy of some kind. You feel like not having the thing devalues you whereas having the thing would "upgrade" or enhance you in a way.

In a way this is linked to the phenomenon of status (just in my opinion), because the more we feel like we have all these different things that enhance us the better we feel about ourselves and our status in society.

Status is a survival thing.

It is engrained in your brain to seek to improve your position in the tribe.

A fear of loss of status because of a lack of something is something that again is being processed in the kind of primitive parts of your brain, it's just a fear response telling you "look out, if you don't have thing X you might be perceived as inadequate and maybe your position in the tribe will decrease", it's just a bunch of stress hormones.

 But all of this can be transcended too.

Then you just do these things for the joy of doing them.

Letting go of these rather unhelpful fearful emotions is possible and there are many ways to do so.

Observe them, be very aware of them while just letting them be. Just become an expert of your mind that is able to observe without creating resistance against the emotion. Or use a release technique like EFT/tapping.

[LastThursday]

@spinderella your situation is interesting because your goal to make profit seems clear cut. Also, you have actively chosen to put yourself into the position you're in by purchasing the property. So it comes down to a matter of when and not if you're going to make a profit. I think that is what is causing the ball of anxiety, a certain amount of impatience perhaps and that reality doesn't match up with what's in your head (at the moment).

When you're in the business of making money you definitely have to take the rough with the smooth and also be strategic. I would be asking myself right now, what else can I do to make my goal come true? Up the rent? Sell off some of the units? Increase your advertising for new tenants? Live in one of the units yourself temporarily to cut costs? Move friends in etc.

I would also choose a point upfront at which you can no longer sustain further losses and pull the plug at that point if necessary.

--

In terms of pattern of behaviour, I've had friends who had strong goal-oriented mindsets and they were succesful on the whole (I'm envious). But there's a fine line between being impulsive and being goal oriented. I suspect you're not so impulsive, but you do like to shape your environment to be your way and you want it now. It's possible to be more flexible in how you respond to your desires, and sometimes just to "wait it out" to see if things change or if a better goal comes along or be strategic and research before committing to something new.

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by LastThursday

[The0Self]

Nothing wrong with seeking out positive experiences -- even after enlightenment this can happen. But as you alluded to it wouldn't be seen as a gain for what you are, since there is only wholeness. It can sort of involve a trading of the suffering/happiness cycle for the joy/peace cycle. Maybe ask the reactive imaginary ego (who may pretend to be you) "and then what?" to the "and then I'll truly be happy" trap, if it arises.

[Breakingthewall]

goals are fun. like a sport, a game. the best objectives are: how can I give my best? How can I contribute my talent, my strength? I don't want to leave even a drop in the glass, I want to give it all. Why? Pure pleasure.  how? that's the goal

[Matthew85]

@spinderella You have already realized that separation is an illusion you are creating. You don't need to detach from desired outcomes. The only thing you need to do is uncover what belief systems you are creating and buying into that you can't have exactly what you desire. What are those belief's and why are you accepting them as true? 

[Leo Gura]

The more you invest in a thing, anything, the more attached you will get to it working out in your favor.

[puporing]

Just shared this in another post but I think it's just as relevant to your post.. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olI5JvCuz44 

TL;DR: Equal striving and appreciation.

I have a similar 'business' going on the side, I would say it's mostly been good fun testing what works and what doesn't, expressing some creativity and love through it, it's not a charity but I aim to put into it more than I expect to receive, and not being afraid of pulling the plug if things don't work out financially after trying a bunch of things. So far it's been going well at least but can always change. Having an adaptive mindset helps to not be dragged into the "rollercoaster" of day to day. 

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by puporing

[Gianna]

Literally to this title ?. I've had the same thought.

You're basically toggling with stillness and movement; being and creation. Humans are creators. God is stillness. Well, God is a creator too, obviously. And humans can embody stillness. Essentially, we have both of these qualities (stillness and movement) and points of perspective (God and Ego) within us in this experience. Certain people and teachers value/favor one of these qualities and thus teach it (often stillness). But there's nothing wrong with being inclusive to both, they are both a part of our experience and there is great value to both. I would watch this video. There is nothing wrong with conscious and deliberate creation. It's why we came here! (to human form). Creation is what expands Consciousness/God. Desire (which comes through lack) and subsequent creation (through desire) is what expands God by telling God what to become/what it can become/what it is. 

[Gianna]

We are living in an infinite universe built within abundance. You getting everything you want is your purpose here on Earth. 

[Gianna]

Oh, one last thing. I would watch this video too. hehehe.? For inspiration and to help mitigate your guilt around 'ego'. Allow your ego to do what it is built for– creation???????.. Your ego is not a mistake; it was built intentionally in a very specific way for a very specific reason (that reason is to create expansion). (intelligence, love, diversity, awareness.) How much more can we love? What more can we be? What are more ways that I can show me myself? How do I know myself more? How can I love myself more? 

[Miguel1]

See Leo’s episode on burning through karma? The episode opened / freed my mind to the idea that I should let myself make a proper, healthy income. That perhaps I’ve been repressing it to an extent due to the spiritual path.

There are many problems money solves, let’s not be naive and deny it.

[WelcometoReality]

On 2022-01-21 at 5:35 PM, spinderella said:

I notice that whenever I set a goal, I immediately feel the lack of having that thing that I want.  I can see that this is rooted in dualistic thinking - for example, I believe that having what I want is better than not having the thing I want.  I can see that ultimately, all is one, there's nothing to do, nothing to get, etc.  And I sometimes toy with the idea of saying well, no big deal, I'll just live life on this earth and do what I love be of service, whatever. 

Yes, desire seem to have a "feeling of lack" component to it. Do you feel this lack because you desire or do you desire because you feel lack? 

On 2022-01-21 at 5:35 PM, spinderella said:

But my brain argues with this.  It wants to set a goal, plan to achieve it, and go out there and get it - and I really definitely DO see that it's possible to set/plan/action toward a goal without thinking that it's better once I achieve it.  However, this is not the default setting I exist on. 

Well do you ever become truly satisfied once you achieved your goals? To me it seems like the satisfaction is short lived and you start setting new goals to achieve.

On 2022-01-21 at 5:35 PM, spinderella said:

Can someone help me look at my situation differently?  Of course I want to do all I can to make profit.  I don't think that's truly the issue.  I don't think desires are "bad".  But I don't know how to detach from the outcome.  Am I supposed to see that losing money is fine?  If losing money is fine, where does the motivation to make profit to come from?  I can see the fallacious belief under there that "motivation to make profit comes from anxiety about losing money", and I know intellectually that's not true, but it's currently how I'm living, and it's what I've done my whole life. 

Detach from outcome is to detach from your desire which in turn is to let go of the feeling of lack/anxiety. 

Does the anxiety serve you? What if you could still do whatever you do to make a profit without feeling anxious? 

 

[Nahm]

Investigate who is this separate self, which is not consciousness, but ‘has a state of consciousness’, who “feels lack”, and “feels anxiety”. Maybe the discord is of that first belief, and the second & third are conceptual attempts to rationalize it, which aren’t working. 

Motivation is a mental paradigm contingent on there being that separate self, the one who has a motive and is or is not motivated. 

But inspiration is the surrendering of the paradigm of beliefs in the separate self. Preference arises, consciousness be’s that. It’s unthinkably simple, without the conditioned conditional materialist paradigm (my state of consciousness).  

Everything is always working out for you. There is only to acknowledge & release the discord felt when ‘getting in the way’.

There’s no ‘you stuck in many areas’. That’s a fourth belief / justification / rationalization of the discord. The fundamental belief consciousness is something you have discordantly effects the entirety of experience, which is of course, the consciousness which consciousness holds the beliefs about. 

The path you’re on so to speak, isn’t really the path, it’s aversion… conceptualizing yourself (consciousness). The synchronicity of the emptiness of the unit is showing this, is this, as apparently the discord isn’t quite enough. But it can be allowed to be enough. 

 

[VeganAwake]

Yep, the illusory experience of separation is the experience that something is lacking and needs to be found.

This cycle perpetuates and seemingly confirms the experience that there is a real separate individual that can one day find what it thinks is missing whether that be with climbing the materialist ladder, endless spiritual practices, the use of psychedelics or reading spiritual books & texts. They are all the same seeking in the sense that something feels missing and needs to be achieved or found.

There's nothing right or wrong with setting goals or seeking material possessions because that would just be another concept of an illusory separate individual that thinks having no goals or attachments might then be the path to achieve enlightenment.

Enlightenment is the end of identification as this needy separate individual but not because a someone or GOD stops identifying as THAT but because it's recognized there never was anyone from the start that even could be identified as such.(it was just illusion of self)

Any form of identification as God, true self or higher self is simply the ego/sense of self trying to re-establish identification as THAT.

Enlightenment has nothing to do with becoming or recognizing an inner true self. 

It's the end of an unreal experience as a separate individual believing there is something which needs to occur to make what already IS become IT.

❤ 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

Best I've heard is from Francis Lucille who really helped me understand this, 

Essentially- your happiness isn't dependent on the outcome, so let's say you play a sport and want to win (of course) but if you lose, you're not suddenly going to become depressed forever, and if you win you'll of course feel joy, elevation what not, but its not going to be the reason you're happy. 

Also, another video that helped was a student asked Rupert Spira 'why do anything' (a more vague version of your question I guess) 

And he basically said- Practical Reasons e.g. Survival (similar to your example, you need money to live & people need housing) 

Then (ideally) simply as an expression of Happiness, Joy, love, fun, beauty etc, instead of in the search of these things. 

So, like watching a movie simply because you want to enjoy it

Having a deep relationship with someone as an expression of love, not as a means to escape negative feelings. 

Here's the two videos that helped me with these questions- 

 

 

This also relates pretty heavily to advanced LOA / Manifestation / Conscious Creation techniques, I'm sure @Nahm can fill in where I miss, but from my reading, you start from happiness / Joy and then manifest from there for the fun & joy of it, from love simply because you want to experience that, and have the ability to create whatever the hell you want, so why not? 

Instead of, coming from a place of lack and thinking XYZ will fulfil you / make you happy, you come from Happiness / Love and create the life you want, simply because you want to, and that is unique to everyone, so for you, that may involve filling your investment properties, but goes far beyond that. 

So, simply start creating the life you know you will love because its fun. 

Spirituality doesn't mean giving up on life and becoming a rock ( I used to think that) its actually the opposite and makes life 10000x better

[LfcCharlie4]

This is the other video, I feel you may resonate with the questioner- 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O937dHmNxE

[mandyjw]

Someone is looking for a great apartment, and yours is exactly what they've been looking for. The location is perfect for them, what else? Maybe they lived with their parents and this is their first place? How does it feel to be them and walk in and be THRILLED that you have a place of your own? What do they love about it? Walk into a unit and imagine, pretend that that's you. It's not the perspective you use, it's the feeling behind it. When we are less focused on what's good for us, what's good for everyone is realized to be the only what's good for us there ever was. Feels good, that's how you know.