Jordan Peterson, outraged over diversity efforts, quits tenured professorship

[DieFree]

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jordan-peterson-why-i-am-no-longer-a-tenured-professor-at-the-university-of-toronto

Takeaways from his rant:

- He believes white males are the most qualified and efforts to increase diversity come at the expense of white males

-He believes in "meritocracy." 

-He makes zero effort to understand the perspective of people who want diversity and inclusion 

-He makes zero effort to understand the challenges faced by minorities and others underrepresented and traditionally sidelined by corporations and universities 

Although he frames his exit as a valorous attempt to protect his graduate students, I think the real reason is he's making a lot of money from YouTube and lecturing/book writing and this stunt will give him the aura of a martyr for the cause among his groupies. It's really sad academia has failed to produce any public yellow intellectual who can take on Jordan Peterson. 

  

Edited January 20, 2022 by DieFree

[Willie]

Inclusivity = Ideology

cool

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, DieFree said:

It's really sad academia has failed to produce any public yellow intellectual who can take on Jordan Peterson. 

It's not that they haven't. It's just that no serious academic or intellectual would be interested in a public pissing match with JP. Serious intellectuals don't care about mainstream appeals to social media audiences, and they don't have a political ideology to peddle.

To a serious academic someone like JP looks like an attention-whoring clown.

But mostly, it just doesn't make sense for a guy with JP's celebrity and social media position to teach in a university. Even with my position, why the fuck would I ever confine myself to teaching within a university? That only makes sense if you got no better option. I love being indie.

Part of JP's problem is that he really should have gone indie long ago. It's like he hates university politics and culture yet he locked his whole life to be immersed in that culture. Of course he is so bitter about it. I would be a bitter man too if I had to do all my Actualized work within a university system.

[DieFree]

@Leo Gura Academia is too insular. There should be a bigger focus on interacting with the public or insidious figures like JP get too much power. JP has a lot right, but his fixation on minorities and "dominance hierarchies" combined with his massive influence is not good. There are a lot of science popularizers, but very few (interesting and broadly appealing) public intellectuals who address social, philosophical, and political issues like JP. Academia has come to enshrine publishing in obscure journals read by a handful of narrow specialists as the ultimate purpose of people in academia and I feel there is a loss there. 

[Leo Gura]

Yes, academia is a gaint bureacracy and suffers from the problem of getting high on its own ivory tower farts.

Then again, people on YT are too dumb to read serious academic work. The attention span of social media cannot handle serious intellectual discourse. It has never been the work of academics to preach heady ideas to the mouth-breathing hordes. Academia is for serious nerds to nerd out among themselves. There are serious pros and cons to such a system.

[DieFree]

@Leo Gura come on now. "Serious nerds" are the 1% of the 1%. JP is interesting, seemingly meaningful, makes people feel smarter just hearing him speak. Why can't someone closer to yellow do something similar? We need to isolate this feeing among some that the mouth-breathers are so uncouth they don't deserve the attention and effort. They deserve it as long as their vote determines our destiny, no? 

[kieranperez]

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by kieranperez

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, DieFree said:

@Leo Gura come on now. "Serious nerds" are the 1% of the 1%. JP is interesting, seemingly meaningful, makes people feel smarter just hearing him speak. Why can't someone closer to yellow do something similar?

There are Yellow folks on YT. Like the folks at Rebel Wisdom. The problem is it's never going to be super popular like JP because JP riles up the mouth-breathing masses with culture war political red meat for right-wingers. If JP didn't do that, none of us would know of him. He would just be another boring professor.

Quote

We need to isolate this feeing among some that the mouth-breathers are so uncouth they don't deserve the attention and effort. They deserve it as long as their vote determines our destiny, no? 

They are not interested in serious intellectual stage Yellow discussions. They are interested in owning the libs, culture war stuff, debates, and simplistic TikTok style life advice.

No serious academic or stage Yellow person wants to cater to that. It's like selling your soul to the devil for clicks.

The cost of intelligence and nuance is a very niche and small audience.

There is plenty of advanced, intelligent stuff on YT but it has thousands of views, not millions of views. And you have to go out of your way to search for it. It will not land in your feed automatically.

[Preety_India]

JP is more into minting money. I don't consider him a serious academic. And his views are full of outright prejudice trying to masquerade as truth. He lacks systemic understanding. His views are "cliche." Manufactured to appeal white men. 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

59 minutes ago, Medhansh said:

Where would you put your channel? Orange, green, yellow, or turquoise? Or mixed?

Mostly Yellow/Turquoise these days.

[Mannyb]

“If you judge people, you have no time to love them.” - MotherTeresa

[Gesundheit2]

Give him a chocolate, he'll calm down.

It will pass.

[DocWatts]

10 hours ago, DieFree said:

It's really sad academia has failed to produce any public yellow intellectual who can take on Jordan Peterson. 

It's probably more the case that Jordy P isn't taken seriously in those circles.

Compare Jordy P with someone like Noam Chomsky, and it should be obvious which of the two is an actual Intellectual, and which is what a person lower on the Spiral imagines an intellectual to be.

That said I can certainly see the appeal of JP for young men who lacked a male role model growing up.

Edited January 20, 2022 by DocWatts

[Danioover9000]

@DieFree

11 hours ago, DieFree said:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jordan-peterson-why-i-am-no-longer-a-tenured-professor-at-the-university-of-toronto

Takeaways from his rant:

- He believes white males are the most qualified and efforts to increase diversity come at the expense of white males

-He believes in "meritocracy." 

-He makes zero effort to understand the perspective of people who want diversity and inclusion 

-He makes zero effort to understand the challenges faced by minorities and others underrepresented and traditionally sidelined by corporations and universities 

Although he frames his exit as a valorous attempt to protect his graduate students, I think the real reason is he's making a lot of money from YouTube and lecturing/book writing and this stunt will give him the aura of a martyr for the cause among his groupies. It's really sad academia has failed to produce any public yellow intellectual who can take on Jordan Peterson. 

  

   At least he's exiting now then later or never exiting university.

[Carl-Richard]

10 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I don't consider him a serious academic.

Bruh he was one of the most prolific researchers in his field and got cited out the wazoo even before he got internet famous. The average h-index score for any publishing scientist is 10. He had an h-index of 51 in 2019. A score of 62 is the average of Nobel prize winners.

[Gesundheit2]

4 hours ago, DocWatts said:

That said I can certainly see the appeal of JP for young men who lacked a male role model growing up.

I'm not sure about this, but maybe it is the case for Americans. I didn't have a role model growing up, and still kinda don't. I find Jordan Peterson to be full of shit to be honest. I don't know why he's famous or if anyone actually benefits from listening to his nonsense. He has a couple good insights, and even those he often doesn't communicate very well. I find his style all over the place, which should mean that I'm not understanding what he's saying, but I don't think he has much to offer, so he keeps going round and round in circles beating around the bush, while rarely ever hitting it.

[Preety_India]

14 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Bruh he was one of the most prolific researchers in his field and got cited out the wazoo even before he got internet famous. The average h-index score for any publishing scientist is 10. He had an h-index of 51 in 2019. A score of 62 is the average of Nobel prize winners.

His opinions don't convince me of any academic excellence. A true academic doesn't surrender to propaganda. Rest of whatever he did as in whatever capacity he was in is just endless rambling. A score is nothing.

[DocWatts]

8 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I'm not sure about this, but maybe it is the case for Americans. I didn't have a role model growing up, and still kinda don't. I find Jordan Peterson to be full of shit to be honest. I don't know why he's famous or if anyone actually benefits from listening to his nonsense. He has a couple good insights, and even those he often doesn't communicate very well. I find his style all over the place, which should mean that I'm not understanding what he's saying, but I don't think he has much to offer, so he keeps going round and round in circles beating around the bush, while rarely ever hitting it.

Well I never said he was a particularly wise or insightful role model.

If he has any utility at all, I could see him helping some young men in his audience transition from SD-Red to SD-Blue. I'm not ready to disregard people who say that JP's advice has helped them, though of course that doesn't mean he has an informed or particularly insightful view about political topics.

Aside from the regressive political takes he sprinkles in to his self help, he's always come across to me as a mediocre communicator owing to the fact that he uses convoluted language to obfuscate answers to relatively straightforward questions.

If something can be expressed simply it should be said simply, as Noam Chomsky put it.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

His opinions don't convince me of any academic excellence. A true academic doesn't surrender to propaganda. Rest of whatever he did as in whatever capacity he was in is just endless rambling. A score is nothing.

The h-index is literally the definition of academic excellence, as in how influential your work is in academia (publications and citations). Just say you disagree with his political views or epistemology or whatever.

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I'm not sure about this, but maybe it is the case for Americans. I didn't have a role model growing up, and still kinda don't. I find Jordan Peterson to be full of shit to be honest. I don't know why he's famous or if anyone actually benefits from listening to his nonsense. He has a couple good insights, and even those he often doesn't communicate very well. I find his style all over the place, which should mean that I'm not understanding what he's saying, but I don't think he has much to offer, so he keeps going round and round in circles beating around the bush, while rarely ever hitting it.

Sure, but many people will feel the same way about Leo for example. Just because it didn't help you doesn't mean it doesn't help others.

I think people are quite biased in these regards.