Systems thinkers

[itachi uchiha]

1 hour ago, Bernardo Carleial said:

Tier 2, which is where vMEME Yellow emerges from, is the ground from which the person can realize that society and individuals are developed based on models, and not just that, but he also becomes aware that he himself has his own framework for self-development, and that it too is just model  , so why would he not able to conceptualize other stages? 

Don Beck and Christopher Cowan themselves are at Yellow,  and they conceptualized vMEME Turquoise,  if its right or wrong I don't know, I've never reached that stage, but because they have been at Yellow for so long, and they approach the SD model from a place of honesty and unbias, that I believe they were able to spot the things that needs to be transcended from Yellow and reach Turquoise, and, because of vMEME Yellow's paradigm,  that too is just a model...

but i heard somewhere that if you are at a stage and if u try to conceptualize a higher stage, your model may be inaccurate. so if ken wilber conceptualize 2 stage above him , would that be accurate

 

also if don beck and cristopher cowen are in yellow for so long then why cant they move to turqoise.why are they still staying at yellow? isint turqoise better than yellow

[itachi uchiha]

@Carl-Richard i have some system thinking internalized and can system think with ease. but i am not an expert. does specializing in system thinking help me a lot in my daily survival. i understand that mastery and setting habits have the most impact on how to survive. is systems thinking better than mastery in survival.

[DocWatts]

Glad to see David Foster Wallace and Emil Ejneer Friis (author of The Listening Society) get mentioned alongside the likes of Ken Wilber, as Metamodernism is an important (and in my view somewhat under appreciated) application of systems thinking.

I think Jared Diamond also deserves a mention as an important systems thinker as well, for helping to make system based thinking accessible to the broader public through works like Guns, Germs, and Steel. I'd extend that depiction to someone like Michael Pollan as well, for his approach to food, nutrition, and psychedelics.

Edited January 19, 2022 by DocWatts

[Bernardo Carleial]

2 hours ago, itachi uchiha said:

but i heard somewhere that if you are at a stage and if u try to conceptualize a higher stage, your model may be inaccurate. so if ken wilber conceptualize 2 stage above him , would that be accurate

 

also if don beck and cristopher cowen are in yellow for so long then why cant they move to turqoise.why are they still staying at yellow? isint turqoise better than yellow

There is no "better stage", there are only  stages above and below, and each stage, from vMEME Purple and beyond, might be suitable, depending on the environment that you're in...

The Spiral Dynamics model is a vMEME Yellow development, it works with paradigms and models of reality (Systems Thinking). 

vMEME Turquoise, from my position, is post-paradigmatic, Holistic and non-dual Thinking, there is no model that could match Turquoise, because it's connected at the level of BEING, and being transcends any concept and any model you can think of...

However, coming from the paradigm of vMEME Yellow,  it is entirely possible to develop a model even for vMEME Turquoise,  it would not be as complete as the other ones, but still possible...

Edited January 19, 2022 by Bernardo Carleial

[itachi uchiha]

@Bernardo Carleial how can a person move from yellow to turqoise.is it possible to move from yellow to truqoise without taking psychidelics and without having non dual experience

[Bernardo Carleial]

2 minutes ago, itachi uchiha said:

@Bernardo Carleial how can a person move from yellow to turqoise.is it possible to move from yellow to truqoise without taking psychidelics and without having non dual experience

I have no idea

[Loving Radiance]

@itachi uchiha Of course it's possible. However these experiences greatly open up the mind to consider more modes of being.

[Carl-Richard]

I see a lot of good suggestions, but I'm hesitant to add more people to already existing categories (at least the fullest ones), because it gets too messy. I could easily copypaste 100 names straight from wikipedia. The point is to get a general overview and see the connections between names that mainly frequent this community (that's the best I can do as a non-expert). I would still like more suggestions for new overaching categories that don't overlap too much with the existing ones and new examples for those 

[Bernardo Carleial]

24 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I see a lot of good suggestions, but I'm hesitant to add more people to already existing categories, because it gets too messy. I could easily copypaste 100 names straight from wikipedia. The point is to get a general overview and see the connections between names that mainly frequent this community. I would still like more suggestions for new overaching categories that don't overlap too much with the existing ones and new examples for those 

@Carl-Richard do you think Bernardo Kastrup might fit in the Philosophical Metatheorist category?

[Carl-Richard]

5 minutes ago, Bernardo Carleial said:

@Carl-Richard do you think Bernardo Kastrup might fit in the Philosophical Metatheorist category?

For sure. I think there is space for him.

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Bernardo Carleial said:

@Carl-Richard do you think Bernardo Kastrup might fit in the Philosophical Metatheorist category?

I just realized that category is a part of the developmentalists category, so I added a new category for constructivists and idealists and put him under that one.

[Bernardo Carleial]

10 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I just realized that category is a part of the developmentalists category, so I added a new category for constructivists and idealists and put him under that one.

????