What is the difference between awakening and mentally illness?

[Loving Radiance]

I ask because I cannot differentiate between awakening experiences and derealization-depersonalization disorder (where the world and self are directly felt as not real) or the awakening experiences and psychotic phases.

[mandyjw]

Awakening is realizing that one's self is prior to the mind. There is no self to be insecure or doubt or unsure. Mental illness is referred to as "losing one's mind" because the thought is claiming that the mind that it thinks it's coming from itself is lost, broken, part is missing, etc. That "mind" has always been a thought. 

Suffering is the real marker of "mental i'llness". Total lack of suffering is the marker of an awakening.  There are thoughts that resonate with who you really are, and thoughts that don't. One thought at a time, how does it feel? If we start believing in identification with a mind that might have some major malfunction, we will tolerate thoughts that feel awful. 

Trying to diagnose yourself with derealization-depersonalization disorder is always someone trying to diagnose themselves as a someone who has lost their sense someone. Isn't that kind of... funny? 

[Loving Radiance]

@mandyjw  That is something to ponder and look for in direct experience. Thanks!

41 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Trying to diagnose yourself with derealization-depersonalization disorder is always someone trying to diagnose themselves as a someone who has lost their sense someone. Isn't that kind of... funny? 

I wonder, who's so sneaky to hide behind the mask of no mask

[happyhappy]

umm, i have met many folks going through is depersonalization including myself in this forum.  

depersonalization is like half baked enlightenment. check out many older discussions done by other members on depersonalization using search function. i guess u will find some great insights by digging out there!@Loving Radiance

[Khan 0]

17 hours ago, Loving Radiance said:

I ask because I cannot differentiate between awakening experiences and derealization-depersonalization disorder (where the world and self are directly felt as not real) or the awakening experiences and psychotic phases.

Enlightenment has nothing to do with depersonalization, after enlightenment you have no idea what is you nor depersonalization. Just bunch of thoughts, not even. Empty.

[mandyjw]

15 hours ago, Loving Radiance said:

 

I wonder, who's so sneaky to hide behind the mask of no mask

I suppose it's a plain white mask with "this is not a mask" written on it. 

[Gesundheit2]

Awakening impacts your cognition positively, and it adds more clarity to your life.

The opposite with mental illnesses.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Preety_India]

You can't really differentiate the two. 

Many people who had an awakening were actually suffering from a mental illness. 

Many people who had a mental illness pretended to have an awakening. 

Literally indistinguishable. 

 

[Loving Radiance]

@Preety_India @Gesundheit2 @mandyjw @Khan 0 @happyhappy Thanks to all of you.

[Loba]

I have mental illness, it is hard to distinguish because the illness can mask as the same sort of awakening experience.  It makes me think that if a lot of people with mental illness had someone to train them, then they would be shamans or something of the sort.

A lot of people in the hospital were going through spiritual awakenings and did not know it, just like many were sick.

The difference is quality of life, if you don't move forward after a period of time and your life gets worse, it is mental illness.

I have an old video on the topic.

[Loving Radiance]

3 hours ago, Loba said:

I have mental illness, it is hard to distinguish because the illness can mask as the same sort of awakening experience.  It makes me think that if a lot of people with mental illness had someone to train them, then they would be shamans or something of the sort.

A lot of people in the hospital were going through spiritual awakenings and did not know it, just like many were sick.

The difference is quality of life, if you don't move forward after a period of time and your life gets worse, it is mental illness.

I have an old video on the topic.

Thank you, this confirmed it again for me.

I think it's good to just hang around in that grey space of spiritual awakening & mental illness and watch how its unfolding till something new arises. Then there is more clarity on how to continue, or not.

I haven't done that much introspection to have clarity in that regard. What Mandy described with awareness being beyond the mind feels clear to me and yet it isn't in my direct experience. Well let's see.

[puporing]

It can overlap for sure and how others perceive you as. 

[Leo Gura]

Depersonalization is simply not God-realization/awakening.

Depersonalization is some other kind of lesser state of consciousness. There can be thousands of alien and weird states of consciousness, some of them quasi-mystical, but not really the same as full on God-consciousness.

[Terell Kirby]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There can be thousands of alien and weird states of consciousness, some of them quasi-mystical, but not really the same as full on God-consciousness.

@Leo Gura interested in your theory here: once the God-realized state is obtained, does it remain throughout all subsequent states of consciousness? Be it alien, non material, quasi-mystical, human, etc?

[Nadosa]

Depersonalization/Derealization is simply kind of a protect-mechanism by the brain. I have experienced it both severely in 2017. Cure = seeing that it is not smth "one" "has" but is just what is in this moment = meaning you + some thoughts which backfire the panic loop + feeling the goodness of being. Observe the loop and see the magic, you literally "move into" reality within no time. Exercise is helpful too. I have actually had such a good time meditating being severely derealized/depersonalized, I felt so safe just being with it, emotions were back and it was just what it was. Consciousness experiencing itself.

Now it is merely a thought, same as mental illness. Made out of consciousness. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Nadosa

[puporing]

You can have God realization/awakening while going through mental health challenges which for some people are what put them on the path. And integrating things back to limited self can take time, not everyone can become like Eckhart Tolle in one fell swoop (though also possible), and awakening can also be a very confusing experience to go through by yourself which can exacerbate existing mental health issues, or the opposite and drastically diminish the hold those pre-existing issues have on you. It's just good to be aware that the two can interact with each other. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by puporing

[Matthew85]

@Loving Radiance Interesting question. In my experience awakening has been the opposite of depersonalization. More and more you see everything as you. It's not a loss of personal identity but an expansion of your sense of self. 

[Nadosa]

28 minutes ago, puporing said:

You can have God realization/awakening while going through mental health challenges which for some people are what put them on the path. And integrating things back to limited self can take time, not everyone can become like Eckhart Tolle in one fell swoop (though also possible), and awakening can also be a very confusing experience to go through by yourself which can exacerbate existing mental health issues, or the opposite and drastically diminish the hold those pre-existing issues have on you. It's just good to be aware that the two can interact with each other. 

Eckhart took 10 years sitting on a park bench to get a proper understanding of what has happened. Same thing Ive done for the last few years. Still some issues here and there.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Nadosa

[sausagehead]

18 minutes ago, Matthew85 said:

@Loving Radiance Interesting question. In my experience awakening has been the opposite of depersonalization. More and more you see everything as you. It's not a loss of personal identity but an expansion of your sense of self. 

How did you experience both? Did you recover from DPDR and then take a psychedelic without having any issues? I'm mostly recovered from DPDR but I'm afraid to take a substance that could potentially make it worse or even bring it back if I wait until im fully recovered 

[puporing]

@Nadosa Yes but I meant that he was on the verge of suicide and the awakening changed all that, which might not be for some people. I can't claim to know all the details though. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by puporing