why anything FINITE cannot be PERFECT?

[mandyjw]

8 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

@mandyjw Perfection is not a condition. Or you use the word to refer to a different concept than i do.

I'd say that anything that has to be one way and not another (excluding some other possibility) is a condition. Perfection as a condition is defined and only known by the knowing of imperfection. 

Ultimately "Perfection" includes perfection and imperfection.

A great novel has imperfect characters, the imperfection is exactly what makes it great. Were the characters to be perfect the work of fiction itself would be bad. If you were an author you would not choose perfection over imperfection. Nor would you believe the characters really WERE that way, because you know that you consciously created them that way. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by mandyjw

[happyhappy]

33 minutes ago, Shambhu said:

All we ever have access to is the subjective.  Some things just have additional claims to objectivity.

what do you mean when u point additional claims to objectivity?  In my understanding, what we consider as an objective truth is like us considering that right human lung having three lobes or humans have two legs. because this is the case for majority, we define it as an objective normal(  a reference point) against which non complying conditions will be termed as abnormalities. 

what's ur take man? did I get it?

Edited January 12, 2022 by happyhappy

[happyhappy]

26 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Would you really, truly desire perfection as a condition if you had the choice?

yo mandy.

isn't that what we all are seeking in one way or another. some chase money for fulfilment, some chase sex for it. Here most of us chase enlightenment.

are n't we always in this quest for filling that void? where does this void come from?

aren't even spiritual folks are turning inwards to look for perfection. ?

[Shambhu]

3 minutes ago, happyhappy said:

what do you mean when u point additional claims to objectivity?  In my understanding, what we consider as an objective truth is like us considering that right human lung having three lobes or humans have two legs. because this is the case for majority, we define it as an objective normal(  a reference point) against which non complying conditions will be termed as abnormalities. 

what's ur take man? did I get it?

A thing is considered objective when it is believed to exist independently outside the subject.  So if I look at a tree, I believe that tree to exist outside of my consciousness, and I believe that it is not dependent upon me (or any other individual) to exist.  However, when I examine the evidence, I find that my beliefs are ungrounded.  All I know of that tree is the perception of colors, or possibly other sense data, which are subject experiences.  Of course, when I see a tree, there is more going on than just the perception of colors.  There is also the appearing of the idea "tree"  that is associated with those colors and the forms created by those colors.  Additionally, there is the belief that arises with it that the tree is external to myself, yet all of this is just a part of my subjective experience.  The tree that I experience is nothing more than a collection of mental events.

[mandyjw]

2 minutes ago, happyhappy said:

yo mandy.

isn't that what we all are seeking in one way or another. some chase money for fulfilment, some chase sex for it. Here most of us chase enlightenment.

are n't we always in this quest for filling that void? where does this void come from?

That's the quest for love and happiness. Not perfection. The idea of perfection is what requires the need for purification in the first place. Everything imposed on that "nothing" is what stands outside it and says "look a void!!!! MUST AVOID!"

4 minutes ago, happyhappy said:

aren't even spiritual folks are turning inwards to look for perfection. ?

If you seek perfection inside you without realized there isn't a you in the first place you always confuse outwards for inwards. Then you build churches with big steeples and stained glass windows, and wear suits and ties. Or start a Youtube channel with your insights and get followers. How will I know I'm perfect? I'll figure out how to get some others to think it about me. Then I'll feel love and peace. 

There's just no where to turn. "No where" is the pivot point itself. There's no point at all, that's exactly why it can pivot.  

[happyhappy]

1 hour ago, Terell Kirby said:

Finitude is contained in what is Infinite.

What is Infinite, by definition, is perfection.

In actuality, our Existence alone is what makes us perfect .

so that basically becomes another strange loop ! eh? 

and infinite cannot exist without the finite?

 

[happyhappy]

13 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

@mandyjw If you like those characters, why do you call them imperfect??

u like playing word games don't ya?

[mandyjw]

7 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

@mandyjw If you like those characters, why do you call them imperfect??

 Do I have to like Captain Ahab to love and appreciate the brilliance of Moby Dick? Do I have to like Voldemort to appreciate the brilliance of the Harry Potter series? 

The unconditional love that creates is completely beyond the condition of liking or disliking. 

 

[happyhappy]

9 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

That's the quest for love and happiness. Not perfection. The idea of perfection is what requires the need for purification in the first place. Everything imposed on that "nothing" is what stands outside it and says "look a void!!!! MUST AVOID!"

If you seek perfection inside you without realized there isn't a you in the first place you always confuse outwards for inwards. Then you build churches with big steeples and stained glass windows, and wear suits and ties. Or start a Youtube channel with your insights and get followers. How will I know I'm perfect? I'll figure out how to get some others to think it about me. Then I'll feel love and peace. 

There's just no where to turn. "No where" is the pivot point itself. There's no point at all, that's exactly why it can pivot.  

GOLDEN ! I guess I am still missing points. need to contemplate that hardly pretty sooooon.

soo, the seeking of perfection burns up the seeker in the process. we seek perfection only to see there is no us to be perfected. what a paradox.

[mandyjw]

@happyhappy Utter perfection would be utterly free. No conditional thing can ever be utterly free. Therefore if perfection is ever a condition imposed on a thing, it is not free, therefore not perfect. It is an imposter upon itself. The conditional "you" you believe yourself to be is an imposter. It's just a thought. 

Yes, desire for perfection would be perfect in itself, and also a total misunderstanding. Perfection desires itself, by appearing as imperfection. Well played universe. Couldn't have written it better. 

[happyhappy]

20 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@happyhappy Utter perfection would be utterly free. No conditional thing can ever be utterly free. Therefore if perfection is ever a condition imposed on a thing, it is not free, therefore not perfect. It is an imposter upon itself. The conditional "you" you believe yourself to be is an imposter. It's just a thought. 

Yes, desire for perfection would be perfect in itself, and also a total misunderstanding. Perfection desires itself, by appearing as imperfection. Well played universe. Couldn't have written it better. 

thank you soo much ! appreciate ur time and wisdom! 

that was a lot to digest . ig I have a lot to work on. I just started watching ur videos!

Edited January 12, 2022 by happyhappy

[peanutspathtotruth]

23 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Perfection desires itself, by appearing as imperfection. Well played universe. Couldn't have written it better. 

Behind the Curtain: God 

Edited January 12, 2022 by peanutspathtotruth

[mandyjw]

27 minutes ago, happyhappy said:

ig I have a lot to work on.

Already perfect!   Digestion works best all on its own when you're not thinking about it. Contemplation is fun though. Questioning is fun. Letting go of questions is fun. Stumbling on the answers when you least expect them is fun. Nothing serious going on here. No one getting anything from it. Just fun having fun. 

25 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

Behind the Curtain: God 

That curtain has a big hole torn right through the middle. 

[happyhappy]

8 hours ago, Shambhu said:

A thing is considered objective when it is believed to exist independently outside the subject.  So if I look at a tree, I believe that tree to exist outside of my consciousness, and I believe that it is not dependent upon me (or any other individual) to exist.  However, when I examine the evidence, I find that my beliefs are ungrounded.  All I know of that tree is the perception of colors, or possibly other sense data, which are subject experiences.  Of course, when I see a tree, there is more going on than just the perception of colors.  There is also the appearing of the idea "tree"  that is associated with those colors and the forms created by those colors.  Additionally, there is the belief that arises with it that the tree is external to myself, yet all of this is just a part of my subjective experience.  The tree that I experience is nothing more than a collection of mental events.

@ShambhuThank you for ur kind replies and ur valuable time!  thus the reality is at the same time both objective and subjective eh? ONCE AGAIN a total mindfuck for me  

9 hours ago, Khan 0 said:

You are breathing the air that you can't even see. Even can able to understand what finite mean is, isn't it perfect?

 

 oh wow!  

"Truth is God. Denial of God we have known. Denial of truth we have not known.”- Gita

8 hours ago, BenG said:

I guess the idea goes something like this.

It isn't that anything is imperfect, but that we look at everything through a biased lense. We're selfish little monkeys who need to survive. ? 

Ergo the world sucks! 

I've had experiences of profound perfection, but trying to live there in a different matter. ?

thank u bro!

umm yeah , we always have that survival bias.  and all this points to me that PERFECTION is right here, NOW!

[Ananta]

11 hours ago, happyhappy said:

why is that anything finite like u & me will always be far from perfect as individuals?

Well, there was Jesus? ?‍♀️

Most are just too damn fixated on their own selfish wants and needs, not the needs of others, usually.  

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, BenG said:

I mean, it's completely evident that life is far from perfect.

life is perfect, but you have the opinion that it is not.

[peanutspathtotruth]

8 minutes ago, BenG said:

it can be if only we lay down our lives for Truth.

This is it. All the other talk about things being a struggle and imperfect are from a perspective that is not ready to surrender everything to Truth. It's either staying there or full devotion to reality just as it is. Then there is only perfection wherever we look. It sounds cheesy but it's true

[Loba]

On 1/12/2022 at 7:40 AM, happyhappy said:

why is that anything finite like u & me will always be far from perfect as individuals?

We are perfect, it isn't that we aren't it is that you have to notice the Godliness in those imperfections by zooming out of your current lens and then try again with seeing what you find.  God works through us, even when we are acting imperfectly.

[peanutspathtotruth]

2 hours ago, BenG said:

Exactly. 

I for one am not ready to surrender everything to Truth.

So, life appears imperfect.

Nobody is Only truth can surrender itself to itself. No person here to achieve the readiness. We don't choose.