why anything FINITE cannot be PERFECT?

[happyhappy]

why is that anything finite like u & me will always be far from perfect as individuals?

[gettoefl]

there is as much complexity in a grain of sand as there is in the whole universe combined

[SQAAD]

@happyhappy

10 minutes ago, happyhappy said:

why is that anything finite like u & me will always be far from perfect as individuals?

It depends on how you define what 'perfect' is. 

You don't see humans as perfect because you are comparing them with a figment of your own mind. Fantasy will always be better than reality. Of course. Because in your fantasy everything is as your ego wants. 

But you could see also that humans are an expression of Perfection. If you stop judging and comparing... 

[Shambhu]

10 minutes ago, happyhappy said:

why is that anything finite like u & me will always be far from perfect as individuals?

@happyhappy

Anything that is infinite cannot change, since it includes all possibilities.

Anything that cannot change is perfect, since it cannot be any other way and cannot be compared to before or after.

Anything that is finite can (and does) change.

Anything that can (and does) change can always be more or less perfect than before or after.

[The Lucid Dreamer]

Can you define what perfect means? 

[gettoefl]

2 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

Can you define what perfect means? 

finished

if we were finished we would be god already

[The Lucid Dreamer]

Just now, gettoefl said:

finished

if we were finished we would be god already

What does finished mean in this context? 

[Shambhu]

From Oxford's Dictionary:

1. as good as it is possible to be.

2. absolute; complete

[The Lucid Dreamer]

2 minutes ago, Shambhu said:

From Oxford's Dictionary:

1. as good as it is possible to be.

2. absolute; complete

Those are entirely subjective.  

[Terell Kirby]

51 minutes ago, happyhappy said:

why is that anything finite like u & me will always be far from perfect as individuals?

Finitude is contained in what is Infinite.

What is Infinite, by definition, is perfection.

In actuality, our Existence alone is what makes us perfect .

Edited January 12, 2022 by Terell Kirby

[The Lucid Dreamer]

2 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

" i am suffering"

" i feel incomplete"

"I am not good enough"

Can it be seen that these thoughts arise in completeness? That they are exactly what they are, and thus, whole? That they play their role perfectly?

Dayuuum. Truth bomb.   

[happyhappy]

50 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

there is as much complexity in a grain of sand as there is in the whole universe combined

+1 wisdom reminds me of this,

To see a World in a Grain of Sand

And a Heaven in a Wild Flower 

Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand 

And Eternity in an hour  - William Blake

 

52 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

Because Reality is nondual/ there are no real finite parts. It's all Infinity=Perfection.     So is the part real, is it perfect or imperfect, is it finite or infinite? Is the part a part, is the part dualistic? What is "a part" anyway, other than The One? Start playing with the word "unpindownable", it might give you some insight??

Dang!@Judy2 here comes your linguistics to use. I really read this thrice to get it!  thank you!

[happyhappy]

57 minutes ago, SQAAD said:

@happyhappy

It depends on how you define what 'perfect' is. 

You don't see humans as perfect because you are comparing them with a figment of your own mind. Fantasy will always be better than reality. Of course. Because in your fantasy everything is as your ego wants. 

But you could see also that humans are an expression of Perfection. If you stop judging and comparing... 

umm,soo another question though, (open to all) is that the reason why all FINITE THINGS ARE TEMPORARY?

 

25 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

" i am suffering"

" i feel incomplete"

"I am not good enough"

Can it be seen that these thoughts arise in completeness? That they are exactly what they are, and thus, whole? That they play their role perfectly?

 soooo, are ya basically meaning that IT IS WHAT IT IS AND IT IS ALREADY PERFECT AS IT IS ? 

@The Lucid Dreamer yuP! the notions and definition of perfection itself tend to be subjective . 

[Khan 0]

1 hour ago, happyhappy said:

why is that anything finite like u & me will always be far from perfect as individuals?

You are breathing the air that you can't even see. Even can able to understand what finite mean is, isn't it perfect?

 

[happyhappy]

Just now, Judy2 said:

 

 

May i add the verse by William Blake to my journal?

of course! why not? 

here is the full poem,

Auguries of Innocence-BY WILLIAM BLAKE

To see a World in a Grain of Sand

And a Heaven in a Wild Flower 

Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand 

And Eternity in an hour

A Robin Red breast in a Cage

Puts all Heaven in a Rage 

A Dove house filld with Doves & Pigeons

Shudders Hell thr' all its regions 

A dog starvd at his Masters Gate

Predicts the ruin of the State 

A Horse misusd upon the Road

Calls to Heaven for Human blood 

Each outcry of the hunted Hare

A fibre from the Brain does tear 

A Skylark wounded in the wing 

A Cherubim does cease to sing 

The Game Cock clipd & armd for fight

Does the Rising Sun affright 

Every Wolfs & Lions howl

Raises from Hell a Human Soul 

The wild deer, wandring here & there 

Keeps the Human Soul from Care 

The Lamb misusd breeds Public Strife

And yet forgives the Butchers knife 

The Bat that flits at close of Eve

Has left the Brain that wont Believe

The Owl that calls upon the Night

Speaks the Unbelievers fright

He who shall hurt the little Wren

Shall never be belovd by Men 

He who the Ox to wrath has movd

Shall never be by Woman lovd

The wanton Boy that kills the Fly

Shall feel the Spiders enmity 

He who torments the Chafers Sprite

Weaves a Bower in endless Night 

The Catterpiller on the Leaf

Repeats to thee thy Mothers grief 

Kill not the Moth nor Butterfly 

For the Last Judgment draweth nigh 

He who shall train the Horse to War

Shall never pass the Polar Bar 

The Beggars Dog & Widows Cat 

Feed them & thou wilt grow fat 

The Gnat that sings his Summers Song

Poison gets from Slanders tongue 

The poison of the Snake & Newt

Is the sweat of Envys Foot 

The poison of the Honey Bee

Is the Artists Jealousy

The Princes Robes & Beggars Rags

Are Toadstools on the Misers Bags 

A Truth thats told with bad intent

Beats all the Lies you can invent 

It is right it should be so 

Man was made for Joy & Woe 

And when this we rightly know 

Thro the World we safely go 

Joy & Woe are woven fine 

A Clothing for the soul divine 

Under every grief & pine

Runs a joy with silken twine 

The Babe is more than swadling Bands

Throughout all these Human Lands

Tools were made & Born were hands 

Every Farmer Understands

Every Tear from Every Eye

Becomes a Babe in Eternity 

This is caught by Females bright

And returnd to its own delight 

The Bleat the Bark Bellow & Roar 

Are Waves that Beat on Heavens Shore 

The Babe that weeps the Rod beneath

Writes Revenge in realms of Death 

The Beggars Rags fluttering in Air

Does to Rags the Heavens tear 

The Soldier armd with Sword & Gun 

Palsied strikes the Summers Sun

The poor Mans Farthing is worth more

Than all the Gold on Africs Shore

One Mite wrung from the Labrers hands

Shall buy & sell the Misers Lands 

Or if protected from on high 

Does that whole Nation sell & buy 

He who mocks the Infants Faith

Shall be mockd in Age & Death 

He who shall teach the Child to Doubt

The rotting Grave shall neer get out 

He who respects the Infants faith

Triumphs over Hell & Death 

The Childs Toys & the Old Mans Reasons

Are the Fruits of the Two seasons 

The Questioner who sits so sly 

Shall never know how to Reply 

He who replies to words of Doubt

Doth put the Light of Knowledge out 

The Strongest Poison ever known

Came from Caesars Laurel Crown 

Nought can Deform the Human Race

Like to the Armours iron brace 

When Gold & Gems adorn the Plow

To peaceful Arts shall Envy Bow 

A Riddle or the Crickets Cry

Is to Doubt a fit Reply 

The Emmets Inch & Eagles Mile

Make Lame Philosophy to smile 

He who Doubts from what he sees

Will neer Believe do what you Please 

If the Sun & Moon should Doubt 

Theyd immediately Go out 

To be in a Passion you Good may Do 

But no Good if a Passion is in you 

The Whore & Gambler by the State

Licencd build that Nations Fate 

The Harlots cry from Street to Street 

Shall weave Old Englands winding Sheet 

The Winners Shout the Losers Curse 

Dance before dead Englands Hearse 

Every Night & every Morn

Some to Misery are Born 

Every Morn and every Night

Some are Born to sweet delight 

Some are Born to sweet delight 

Some are Born to Endless Night 

We are led to Believe a Lie

When we see not Thro the Eye

Which was Born in a Night to perish in a Night 

When the Soul Slept in Beams of Light 

God Appears & God is Light

To those poor Souls who dwell in Night 

But does a Human Form Display

To those who Dwell in Realms of day

 

[Shambhu]

49 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

Those are entirely subjective.  

What would an objective definition look like? :-)

[happyhappy]

2 minutes ago, Shambhu said:

What would an objective definition look like? :-)

what we like to call objective is a generalization of subjective truths , or subjective realities right? what do you think?

[Shambhu]

9 minutes ago, happyhappy said:

what we like to call objective is a generalization of subjective truths , or subjective realities right? what do you think?

I like what Edmund Husserl had to say about the subject.  He claimed that objectivity is just another level of subjectivity.  For example, we say that a thought is imminent, thus subjective, and a tree is transcendent, thus objective, but actually, what we call a tree is just another thing appearing within our own subjectivity.  All we ever have access to is the subjective.  Some things just have additional claims to objectivity.

[mandyjw]

Would you really, truly desire perfection as a condition if you had the choice? If you were an author would you write perfect characters? 

[The Lucid Dreamer]

41 minutes ago, Shambhu said:

What would an objective definition look like? :-)

I haven’t the faintest.  Was just asking to see if OP had a sufficient definition of the word to begin with so we could decide whether or not the question is even a coherent one. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by The Lucid Dreamer