The Universe is Probabilistic, not Deterministic - Free Will is still an Illusion

[ardacigin]

The following understanding is formed after my recent direct experiences regarding determinism and free will. Ultimately, both are false. The answer is more complex than most people care to admit. Let me explain.

First of all, let's get free will out of the way. There is absolutely no entity separate from other causes and conditions that can exercise an independent will and go against this nexus of causality in the moment. Free will is an illusion. No doubt about that.

However, all of the future moments being already pre-determined is not the natural conclusion that arise from this understanding. Even if you knew the entire locality and movements of all particles in the universe, you'd not foresee its exact unfoldment in a scientific manner 5 years from now. This system is designed in non-linear complex causality, not in some predictable linear ('b comes after a') causality. 

Understanding the system's theory is important to get a feel for what I'm saying. But ultimately, direct experience of this interconnected causality will allow you to see how determinism is not the answer.

The universe, your life, your decisions, the way your life unfolds is probabilistic. I  will make a practical connection to your life to illustrate my point.

Everything in the universe is playing a role in shaping us, however, this particular system we have in each of us (the mind/brain) is at the center of this nexus of causality. It has the potential to literally shape and design itself.

What it CAN'T do is to determine with exact precision how this probability wavelength is going to collapse in a particular moment as the present moment unfolds. 

But it has the ability to determine which way the probability wavelength (which exists in each moment) will collapse in future moments as a potentiality. Your mind generates both past and future in the present.

 After all, some present moment decisions are made with 49,9 - 50,1 sort of probability. It can go either way. Tipping the scales one way or the other is a potential our minds can utilize to shape our future selves. With the way we respond to the world and form intentions, our 'self' is designed and re-designed in each moment.

That is what the training in spirituality is all about.

The fact of observation and seeing the consequences of our actions/decisions allow our minds to shape its programming and change the future by accumulating micro-adjustments. This is one of the things we do in meditation. Try to become conscious of what you are doing :))

You are a self-organizing system. You are an unfolding series of probabilities that are contingent on absolutely everything that has happened everywhere throughout all time. 

What 'you' do, matters!

What intentions you form before you take an action, matters!

What decisions you make and what response you choose to adopt after the consequences of these decisions, matters!

It is rather ironic that the toxic self help industry platitude 'You can create a different future self' is not all that off the mark here. Sure, self help methods of actualizing this potential is highly toxic and ineffective but it does contain a kernel of truth you can be conscious of in direct experience.

----

At this time, I'm not sure what sort of a specific practice I can recommend you to help you directly become conscious of this understanding. Just continue practicing and examining your mind. Eventually, the insights will form by themselves.

When I do have a practice I can recommend, I'll post it here.

Hope this was useful

Much love,

Arda

 

 

[Thought Art]

1. You can create. Different future self through working on yourself not sure why that is toxic?

2. I am pretty sure probabilities are something you are projecting into reality and that it’s not some fundamental aspect of reality… though, sure part of it..

3. I think if we collapse the duality or separation between our body and the planet, solar system etc and the entire happening at all we realize that what is actually taking place is we are a being off Infinite And Absolute will which is imagining it is limited, probabilistic part of systems etc  to the extent we have will (moving our hand for example) and don’t have will (external reality) are both things ‘we’ create. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Thought Art

[ardacigin]

3 hours ago, Thought Art said:

1. You can create. Different future self through working on yourself not sure why that is toxic?

Well, it is toxic because the way you 'work' on yourself in self help industry is brute force, full of craving, suffering, self-clinging and should statements.

The way you work on yourself is incomparably different after spiritual insights are seen more clearly. There is no longer a self that you experience as solid and real, objective etc.

 

3 hours ago, Thought Art said:

2. I am pretty sure probabilities are something you are projecting into reality and that it’s not some fundamental aspect of reality… though, sure part of it..

Allow for direct experience to inform your ideas about it. Don't accept my claims at face value.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by ardacigin

[Khan 0]

32 minutes ago, ardacigin said:

The following understanding is formed after my recent direct experiences regarding determinism and free will. Ultimately, both are false. The answer is more complex than most people care to admit. Let me explain.

First of all, let's get free will out of the way. There is absolutely no entity separate from other causes and conditions that can exercise an independent will and go against this nexus of causality in the moment. Free will is an illusion. No doubt about that.

However, all of the future moments being already pre-determined is not the natural conclusion that arise from this understanding. Even if you knew the entire locality and movements of all particles in the universe, you'd not foresee its exact unfoldment in a scientific manner 5 years from now. This system is designed in non-linear complex causality, not in some predictable linear ('b comes after a') causality. 

Understanding the system's theory is important to get a feel for what I'm saying. But ultimately, direct experience of this interconnected causality will allow you to see how determinism is not the answer.

The universe, your life, your decisions, the way your life unfolds is probabilistic. I  will make a practical connection to your life to illustrate my point.

Everything in the universe is playing a role in shaping us, however, this particular system we have in each of us (the mind/brain) is at the center of this nexus of causality. It has the potential to literally shape and design itself.

What it CAN'T do is to determine with exact precision how this probability wavelength is going to collapse in a particular moment as the present moment unfolds. 

But it has the ability to determine which way the probability wavelength (which exists in each moment) will collapse in future moments as a potentiality. Your mind generates both past and future in the present.

 After all, some present moment decisions are made with 49,9 - 50,1 sort of probability. It can go either way. Tipping the scales one way or the other is a potential our minds can utilize to shape our future selves. With the way we respond to the world and form intentions, our 'self' is designed and re-designed in each moment.

That is what the training in spirituality is all about.

The fact of observation and seeing the consequences of our actions/decisions allow our minds to shape its programming and change the future by accumulating micro-adjustments. This is one of the things we do in meditation. Try to become conscious of what you are doing :))

You are a self-organizing system. You are an unfolding series of probabilities that are contingent on absolutely everything that has happened everywhere throughout all time. 

What 'you' do, matters!

What intentions you form before you take an action, matters!

What decisions you make and what response you choose to adopt after the consequences of these decisions, matters!

It is rather ironic that the toxic self help industry platitude 'You can create a different future self' is not all that off the mark here. Sure, self help methods of actualizing this potential is highly toxic and ineffective but it does contain a kernel of truth you can be conscious of in direct experience.

----

At this time, I'm not sure what sort of a specific practice I can recommend you to help you directly become conscious of this understanding. Just continue practicing and examining your mind. Eventually, the insights will form by themselves.

When I do have a practice I can recommend, I'll post it here.

Hope this was useful

Much love,

Arda

 

 

There is no such a thing as free will or not to have free will. They are both thoughts, and identical. Anything you name and label is not true. Including these sentences (if you think these are sentences and you are in universe, this is not true and not the truth). 

Because, thoughts of free will and not free will comes from you, you is an illusion in first place.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Khan 0

[JosephKnecht]

Although the universe is non-casual, within it, exist systems that are causal. 

You can predict cause/effects within smaller systems through understanding. Understanding closes causal loops. 

In our current reality, we don't have a full understanding of a First Order cause/effect. For example, @ardacigin your article was the cause for me to respond. This is an example of First Order cause/effect. You didn't have an idea that I will reply. 

Second-Order cause/effect will be imagining the effect this article will have on anyone who will read this post. Imagine before writing this post, you were able to see what direct effects(emotional, change of understanding, life direction, etc) could have on anyone who read the post. 

Third-Order cause/effects will take an account of how those who read this post indirectly influenced the course of history by trickling down effects to those who didn't read it. Can you imagine that before you wrote this post, somehow you were able to see its effects throughout history? 

Your reality is probabilistic precisely because you lack understanding of the First, Second, Third, Infinite.. -order effects of your actions. 

The highest understanding is understanding of the Self. 

The only reason why the universe is probabilistic is because it must account for the actions of the small self until it realizes the Self.  

[BipolarGrowth]

Makes perfect sense to me. 

[Thought Art]

2 hours ago, ardacigin said:

Well, the way you 'work' on yourself in self help industry is brute force, full of craving, suffering, self-clinging and should statements. The way you work on yourself is incomparably different after spiritual insights are seen.

Self help industry isn’t one monolithic way of doing self help. There are various forms of it with different methods, paradigms, philosophy, etc…  there are self help methods to undo that toxic style of self help… High level self help is the opposite of those things you’ve listed.

Allow for direct experience to inform your ideas about it. Don't accept my claims at face value.

I didn’t, I’m still contemplating free will… but… it’s will… only will… 

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Thought Art

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, ardacigin said:

Well, the way you 'work' on yourself in self help industry is brute force, full of craving, suffering, self-clinging and should statements.

That statement seems outrageous as in this experience it’s literally the complete opposite. Very very weird. 

[ardacigin]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

That statement seems outrageous as in this experience it’s literally the complete opposite. Very very weird. 

You are right. You've probably misunderstood me :)) That is exactly what I meant. In spirituality, these are the qualities and attitudes we let go of to see things clearly. It is literally the opposite approach to the self help paradigm.

Edited January 12, 2022 by ardacigin

[Buba]

@ardacigin Everything is predetermined since Big Bang. After Big Bang every cause could have only one effect, so this cause-effect change since Big Bang could only result in this current shape of existence. Nothing else could have happened.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Buba

[RMQualtrough]

No free will as far as I can determine. When I want to do something, the very genesis of the want to do the thing comes out of nowhere and is itself merely an appearance in consciousness and nothing more.