Body as Subject?

[WokeBloke]

Is the body the subject or is the subject not the body in your view?

Direct experience suggests that the body sees the body with the body making the body the seer/subject but Sadhguru says I am not the body. What is your take on this?

Edited January 11, 2022 by WokeBloke

[Mason Riggle]

If the body is seeing itself through its eyes, why is it so hard to see that the Universe is experiencing itself through you? 

[WokeBloke]

56 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

Can you see or feel your body?

I guess I could say I see my perception of my body. 

[Shambhu]

1 hour ago, WokeBloke said:

Is the body the subject or is the subject not the body in your view?

Direct experience suggests that the body sees the body with the body making the body the seer/subject but Sadhguru says I am not the body. What is your take on this?

@Mason Riggle In the traditional text, Drg Drisya Viveka, by Shankaracharya, there is a self-inquiry progression that might help with this question.  It can be found in the very first verse.

1.  The object of sight is perceived and the eye is its perceiver. The eye is perceived and the mind is its perceiver. The mind with its modifications is perceived and the Witness (the Self) is verily the perceiver, but It (the Witness) is not perceived (by any other).

The remainder of the text is worth a study as well.

http://www.vivekananda.net/PDFBooks/Others/DrgDrsyaViveka1931.pdf

Swami Sarvapriyananda also does an excellent job of teaching from this text.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLffj4m28VxZAe6uE-ZuI_8LmAJupCBgxz

Edited January 11, 2022 by Shambhu
Added link to youtube

[Mason Riggle]

@Shambhu I think your reply was meant for WokeBloke.  I don't have questions about this. 

[Shambhu]

@Mason Riggle Oops.  Sorry about that.

[Gregory1]

1 hour ago, WokeBloke said:

Sadhguru says I am not the body.

His words are not to be understood literally.. nuance is asked here. 

[WokeBloke]

1 minute ago, Gregory1 said:

His words are not to be understood literally.. nuance is asked here. 

why do you say they aren't to be taken literally?

[Shambhu]

8 minutes ago, Gregory1 said:

His words are not to be understood literally.. nuance is asked here. 

I do not follow Sadhguru, but I would be surprised if his words were not literal.  This is the traditional teaching of both Yoga and Vedanta, and it is emphatic in those systems.

[Gregory1]

10 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

why do you say they aren't to be taken literally?

Because words are never literal and always misleading. Words are empty and simply point to something that cannot be pointed to. You are the body and simalteneously you aren't the body. You are everything and simalteneously you are nothing. We're talking about the unspeakable here. Non duality.

And now I have to shit. Thanks for appologizing my abecence

[Shambhu]

3 minutes ago, Gregory1 said:

Because words are never literal and always misleading.

Words can obviously be literal; otherwise, everything said is a metaphor for some other meaning.

4 minutes ago, Gregory1 said:

Words are empty and simply point to something that cannot be pointed to.

If they point to something that cannot be pointed to, then they aren't really pointing are they?  You are basically robbing language of all meaning and making communication impossible.

5 minutes ago, Gregory1 said:

You are the body and simalteneously you aren't the body. 

If you are your body, then there have been many Gregory1's.  The body you have now is not the same body you had at age 6.  All the cells in the body are replaced every 10 years.  If you are your body, and you lost a finger, then there would be less of you.  See how that doesn't make sense?

[Thought Art]

“I am not the body

I am not even the mind” -Sadhguru 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Thought Art

[Mason Riggle]

@Shambhu

On Metaphors-

All words are metaphors. This is why we can say the exact same thing in different languages.  "One" and "Uno" mean the same thing. The word 'cat' is not a cat (two cats can be different from each other, but we call them both 'cats'.. a cat with no tail is still a cat... or a cat without claws.. or a cat without fur.. none of these qualities individually are 'what a cat is'.. 'cat' is a word.. a map.. a representation.. a metaphor.. the metaphor 'gato' means the same thing, if you understand the metaphor 'gato').  Some metaphors are more complex, containing metaphors within metaphors.  'It's raining cats and dogs' is a metaphor for 'it's raining very hard' that contains the metaphor 'cat'.

 
 

[WokeBloke]

3 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

“I am not the body

I am not even the mind” -Sadhguru 

I am 100% in agreement with I am not the mind. 

Each body has a mind or thought process. I can thus not be reduced to my mind.

Still from the outside it looks like a body saying that it is not a body!

[Shambhu]

@Mason Riggle I'm not sure where your quote was from, but here are the basic definitions.

met·a·phor

A figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.

lit·er·al

taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory.

[Khan 0]

3 hours ago, WokeBloke said:

Is the body the subject or is the subject not the body in your view?

Direct experience suggests that the body sees the body with the body making the body the seer/subject but Sadhguru says I am not the body. What is your take on this?

Having body is a thought. While your sleeping where is your body? If you dont think now is sleep too. Thats why it is called awakening because actually You is so called sleeping, thoughtlessness, as before birth. And if you dont think it is Now, which is the Source. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Khan 0

[Mason Riggle]

@Shambhu yes, that is a strict definition.. 

If I told you there was a cat on my coffee mug.. I'm being very literal.. but there isn't actually a cat on my coffee mug. 

[Shambhu]

1 hour ago, Mason Riggle said:

@Shambhu yes, that is a strict definition.. 

If I told you there was a cat on my coffee mug.. I'm being very literal.. but there isn't actually a cat on my coffee mug. 

If you said there was a picture of a cat on your mug, then it would be literal, or if there was an actual cat was on your mug, then that would be literal.