Experiences are not aware

[WokeBloke]

Experiences are not experiencing. 

This means that the experience is not the experiencer.

In other words,

The seen can't see.

The heard can't hear.

The thoughts can't think.

The actions don't act.

Etc.

 

[vladorion]

Actually, it's exactly the opposite.

Experiences and awareness are not different things.

[WokeBloke]

47 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Actually, it's exactly the opposite.

Experiences and awareness are not different things.

If this were true then your computer is seeing your computer. But this is not true.

[vladorion]

42 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

If this were true then your computer is seeing your computer. But this is not true.

Try to locate the seer that is apart from the computer.

[Shambhu]

The imagine in the mirror is not other than the mirror, but a mirror is not an image.

A wave does not exist without the ocean, but the ocean is not a wave.

When you dream of a starry night, the sky is nothing other than the mind that dreams it, but the mind is not a dream of the night sky.

Consciousness is the substance of which experiences are only modes, to borrow some terminology from Spinoza.  Even though experiences are nothing other than consciousness, the experiences themselves are not conscious.  The experiences are dependent upon consciousness, but consciousness is not dependent upon the experiences.  It's just like the sky in a dream.  The sky is nothing other than the dream, but the dream sky is not itself dreaming.

[vladorion]

20 minutes ago, Shambhu said:

The imagine in the mirror is not other than the mirror, but a mirror is not an image.

A wave does not exist without the ocean, but the ocean is not a wave.

When you dream of a starry night, the sky is nothing other than the mind that dreams it, but the mind is not a dream of the night sky.

Consciousness is the substance of which experiences are only modes, to borrow some terminology from Spinoza.  Even though experiences are nothing other than consciousness, the experiences themselves are not conscious.  The experiences are dependent upon consciousness, but consciousness is not dependent upon the experiences.  It's just like the sky in a dream.  The sky is nothing other than the dream, but the dream sky is not itself dreaming.

All these descriptions presuppose a subtle duality between subject and object when there is none.

There is no subject/object. There is no mirror.

[WokeBloke]

1 hour ago, vladorion said:

Try to locate the seer that is apart from the computer.

The seer is not located in the visual field. When the computer is removed from the visual field the seer remains but the seen does not.

[Shambhu]

@vladorion There is no duality.  There is only the mirror.

[vladorion]

1 hour ago, WokeBloke said:

The seer is not located in the visual field. When the computer is removed from the visual field the seer remains but the seen does not.

Try to have the seer without the seen.

[WokeBloke]

22 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Try to have the seer without the seen.

Close your eyes. No more seen. The seer/experiencer remains except now you see nothing.

Edited January 11, 2022 by WokeBloke

[vladorion]

12 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

Close your eyes. No more seen. The seer/experiencer remains except now you see nothing.

You still perceive something when you close your eyes. Blackness before your eyes, some thoughts, bodily sensations etc.

[WokeBloke]

1 minute ago, vladorion said:

You still perceive something when you close your eyes. Blackness before your eyes, some thoughts, bodily sensations etc.

Still I argue that you not what you perceive. Blackness does not see blackness. Your computer does not see the computer.

[Vincent S]

1 hour ago, WokeBloke said:

Still I argue that you not what you perceive. Blackness does not see blackness. Your computer does not see the computer.

You think these things are separate: Me, My Computer, The Seer, The Seen, The Experience, The Experienced… 

Its all One thing. Its a “No-Thing”, Split in seeming “Things” or “Separate” Objects/Experiences/Individuals.  
Creating A Dream.

[BipolarGrowth]

Not two. 

[RMQualtrough]

8 hours ago, vladorion said:

Actually, it's exactly the opposite.

Experiences and awareness are not different things.

This is the result of getting high on DMT and experiencing the death of the self/other divide, right?

I did not find that compelling in hindsight (can't think during the trip, only after in hindsight).

What I found certain and compelling was "emptiness". The inherent literal nothingness of isolated awareness. Becoming nothingness was certainly no drug trip delusion... Either I became nothing observing me, or there was nothing where I'd have expected a little observer substance to reside.

DMT induced neti-neti until I was literal nothingness...

When the subject and object divide collapsed, it was more like a dream in that there was still observed objects but I understood keenly that all of it was mind. I wasn't separate from what I was seeing. That's not the same as what is often implied regarding no subject and object.

[WokeBloke]

8 hours ago, Vincent S said:

You think these things are separate: Me, My Computer, The Seer, The Seen, The Experience, The Experienced… 

Its all One thing. Its a “No-Thing”, Split in seeming “Things” or “Separate” Objects/Experiences/Individuals.  
Creating A Dream.

Just because they aren't separate doesn't mean they are the same. Please explain how a computer could be the seer if it doesn't have eyes?

[Vincent S]

25 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

Please explain how a computer could be the seer if it doesn't have eyes?

The Computer is seen by the No-Thing which thinks: It is a "Thing". So when you, as No-Thing-Ness, Imagine yourself to be an I: Whatever you perceive is what you are. So by virtue: You are what you see, and what you see is what you are.
It doesnt need to have eyes. Your imaginated "form" has eyes, and you think "other" stuff need to have eyes to "exist" along side you. The distinctions we make, are what we see or dream in "life". So you are making a distinction that you see your computer, your computer is seperate from you = only you as the "seer" is the only thing that is or can experience itself. Now, ultimately, yes you are. But whatever you create is therefore just as real, as You.
So when you look at a computer, you imagine yourself (Infinite Cloud Of No-Thing-Ness) to be a computer, "seperate" from you.

Imagine being in an infinite white field. There is nothing there. Almost as being inside a cloud: Now imagine that cloud is Everything.
This Infinite Cloud Of No-Thing-Ness, Imagines first that there is an "I" in it, then with Consciousness, it creates another layer, which is other stuff, things, objects, reality, life, weather, animals, computers and so on.
Whatever appeared within this Infinite Cloud Of No-Thing-Ness, is precisely whatever it was from the beginning. Which is No-Thing-Ness.
Just appearing as things. But all "Things" that appear inside the field, are the same, because they come from the same "source", or appear in the same field, if you may.

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Vincent S

[WokeBloke]

@Vincent S My computer is within my being but is not my being.

 

 

[Vincent S]

6 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

@Vincent S My computer is within my being but is not my being.

 

 

What is your being? Pinpoint what exactly is your being? Your body? Your brain? Your eyes?

[Vincent S]

The objects are just what Being is using to experience Itself. To be able to experience itself. Otherwise its Infinite "No-Thing".
Also the Experience is No-Thing.

Look at my profile pic. Look at the center of the eye. Or even better, go stand in front of a mirror, look in to your eyes center.
Stand there until you get it. Im not kidding. It will blow your mind.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Vincent S