Is the EU the first "World Government"?

[Bernardo Carleial]

Hello guys!

This is my first topic on this thread.

On Leo's video on SD vMEME Yellow, he talks about what would be an example of a Yellow Tier 2 government,  and he concludes that it would be a World Government, by which countries will transcend their own borders and cultures in orders to reach out to each other for the benefit of the whole continent, we have examples like that with trade blocs like NAFTA and BRICS,  and on a diplomatic order with NATO...

But with the EU is very peculiar to me... because their decisions seems very entrenched with one another, since the European Council,  to the point that a country's affair becomes interwoven with one another, which might require a much stronger effort to solve issues collective without interfering with each other's sovereignty...

I don't know what might come next, if a much stronger alliance will emerge or if they will exhaust and dissolve the EU.

What do you guys think?? Let's have a discussion ?? here are a couple of video talking about the conception of the E.U, as well as their setbacks...

 

[TheAlchemist]

I think the EU will eventually become the worlds first federation that has what we might call stage green values at its core. 

Yellow? ? Well not yet, not at that scale. I think the UN is laying the groundwork for that, and it might become a reality in the coming centuries.

Edited January 10, 2022 by TheAlchemist

[MarkKol]

Well the EU holds the most conscious countries on planet earth, EU is the most evolved continent on Spiral Dynamics. I don't know what will happen in the future but the EU is the best candidate for stage yellow government.

and still... all European kids dream of living in America, if irrationally is basically everything that goes against your survival, then moving from EU to US is the most irrational shit ever.

one Europe's biggest problems is that
1. Its not social enough, so young people don't want to live there
2. no common language between the countries, If it did adopt a common language tho, maybe it would experience some cultural backlash but it would definitely be closer to stage yellow

 

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, MarkKol said:

and still... all European kids dream of living in America, if irrationally is basically everything that goes against your survival, then moving from EU to US is the most irrational shit ever.
 

90% because of hollywood movies and cartoons

i was the same way as a kid

then later as a teenager i visited the US and was shocked by the poverty and homeless etc.

still a nice place, don't get me wrong

i think in the US the highs are higher and the lows are lower compared to western Europe

7 minutes ago, MarkKol said:

one Europe's biggest problems is that
1. Its not social enough, so young people don't want to live there

also what do you mean "young people don't want to live there" ??

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by PurpleTree

[MarkKol]

29 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

also what do you mean "young people don't want to live there" ??

 

compared to America that is... the US is massively more social than most EU countries, I'm not saying that young people HATE living in EU, its just that MOST would rather live in "the promised land of the American dream", Its like America has some type of genius marketing strategy aimed at everyone else saying "This where you want to live" 

See how Leo talks about pick up and cold approaching woman, that's possible in Europe but way more taboo than in US, I recently saw a video of some American youtuber ranting about PewDiePie's video about cringing at pickup artists, after that I saw the contrast between US and the EU, Europe is very organized and focused when it comes to work. I would describe the difference between two continents as Tight and Loose jeans, Focused & organized with no room to breathe vs Relaxed and all over the place (chaotic at times)

edit: damn that's such a good comparison, exactly how it is. AND SORRY ORIGINAL POSER FOR GOING OFF TOPIC

Edited January 11, 2022 by MarkKol

[PurpleTree]

41 minutes ago, MarkKol said:

compared to America that is... the US is massively more social than most EU countries, I'm not saying that young people HATE living in EU, its just that MOST would rather live in "the promised land of the American dream", Its like America has some type of genius marketing strategy aimed at everyone else saying "This where you want to live" 

See how Leo talks about pick up and cold approaching woman, that's possible in Europe but way more taboo than in US, I recently saw a video of some American youtuber ranting about PewDiePie's video about cringing at pickup artists, after that I saw the contrast between US and the EU, Europe is very organized and focused when it comes to work. I would describe the difference between two continents as Tight and Loose jeans, Focused & organized with no room to breathe vs Relaxed and all over the place (chaotic at times)

edit: damn that's such a good comparison, exactly how it is. AND SORRY ORIGINAL POSER FOR GOING OFF TOPIC

i don't know that many europeans that want to live in the US

also i see many americans coming here to Europe

Edited January 11, 2022 by PurpleTree

[Epikur]

5 hours ago, MarkKol said:

compared to America that is... the US is massively more social than most EU countries, I'm not saying that young people HATE living in EU, its just that MOST would rather live in "the promised land of the American dream", Its like America has some type of genius marketing strategy aimed at everyone else saying "This where you want to live" 

See how Leo talks about pick up and cold approaching woman, that's possible in Europe but way more taboo than in US, I recently saw a video of some American youtuber ranting about PewDiePie's video about cringing at pickup artists, after that I saw the contrast between US and the EU, Europe is very organized and focused when it comes to work. I would describe the difference between two continents as Tight and Loose jeans, Focused & organized with no room to breathe vs Relaxed and all over the place (chaotic at times)

edit: damn that's such a good comparison, exactly how it is. AND SORRY ORIGINAL POSER FOR GOING OFF TOPIC

Actually the US is seen by many as more anti social

[Space Lizard]

20 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

90% because of hollywood movies and cartoons

i was the same way as a kid

then later as a teenager i visited the US and was shocked by the poverty and homeless etc.

still a nice place, don't get me wrong

i think in the US the highs are higher and the lows are lower compared to western Europe

A big challenge for the rest of the world: to realize that what comes out of Hollywood and American media is largely propaganda and illusion. I wonder how many people move here thinking it's gonna be like Baywatch and get a rude awakening. 

20 hours ago, MarkKol said:

one Europe's biggest problems is that
1. Its not social enough, so young people don't want to live there

That's a strange one. To me the USA is the least social, most atomized society in the world. People are not community- or family-oriented and stay in their little cocoons. I've been all over Europe, and it didn't seem less social to me.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Space Lizard

[Bernardo Carleial]

15 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

i think in the US the highs are higher and the lows are lower compared to western Europe

@PurpleTree I think that's inevitable, if we take in consideration the growing social and income inequality that the country needs to face every year, due to a neoliberal ideology of deregulation, "tax is theft" and the monopoly/oligopoly of the private sector

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Bernardo Carleial said:

@PurpleTree I think that's inevitable, if we take in consideration the growing social and income inequality that the country needs to face every year, due to a neoliberal ideology of deregulation, "tax is theft" and the monopoly/oligopoly of the private sector

sure, also in some places (like Texas) you have more "freedoms" than in many European countries so that can be attractive.

9 hours ago, Space Lizard said:

A big challenge for the rest of the world: to realize that what comes out of Hollywood and American media is largely propaganda and illusion. I wonder how many people move here thinking it's gonna be like Baywatch and get a rude awakening. 

sure but that's very difficult to realise because children get brainwashed from early age on with captain america etc.

Hollywood imo was the smartest move by the US.

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, K Ghoul said:

I wouldn’t call it a move as it gives it a certain connotation as if it was a planned scheme. I think Hollywood is a natural extension of American’s ideals and is very organic representation of its people - fake and superficial. Although I perceive them as such through the prism of how I was raised and the culture that I came from, and the differences in terms of how people relate to each other across these two culture are stark. Having lived through the American culture and having experienced it fully it no longer resonates with me even on a superficial level so I’m personally getting the fuck out of here as soon as I can. Same thing will happen to the rest of the world that is currently in the American paradise bubble. Respect to those countries and cultures who never bought into this shit in the first place.

i think it's a know fun fact that Hollywood has often worked together with the US army and CIA

[Bernardo Carleial]

12 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

i think it's a know fun fact that Hollywood has often worked together with the US army and CIA

 

9 minutes ago, K Ghoul said:

Oh oops. No, I didn’t know

Neither do I,

but I wouldn't be surprised with it...

[PurpleTree]

11 minutes ago, Bernardo Carleial said:

 

Neither do I,

but I wouldn't be surprised with it...

the good thing imo in the US you had both though

trash propaganda movies like American Sniper, Top Gun etc.

but then also anti war movies like Full Metal Jacket, Platoon etc.

[TheAlchemist]

3 hours ago, Cykaaaa said:

Sigh. I dream of a unified Europe  And I'm not the only one...

Volt Europa seems like an interesting movement. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt_Europa

[Karmadhi]

EU is a great concept and i think one day it will be fully actualized but it will take quite some time. There are huge development differences between the countries, both morally and economically. In the next 50 years i see it happening though.

[BlueOak]

I am from the UK so understand this is not a dig at the UK.

Strangely I think the EU will more likely become federal without the UK or Turkey in it. Turkey because of the Greek - Turkish border tension that flared up awhile ago, and the UK because its much more anti European Hegemony than for it. The further Europe went in that direction the more the UK pulled back. The balkland region might also have problems with border disputes if the EU accepts them and they go federal.

Internal issues like these linked notwithstanding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_movements_in_Europe 
*Some of these are large some are very minor.

As it is right now, the EU is in its strongest position to become federal, but it would have to be done in a very careful and clever way. People likely couldn't lose their national identity, you can see the push back in europe right now and that's centuries of conditioning into that identity. Would it be beneficial to lose this identity anyway longterm? A federal europe stops border disputes and fighting over land, to an extent, but a lot of culture and political self governance is lost as a result. There is a breakdown of identity and a certain amount of apathy which comes as a result which is being seen right now as identities are eroded, though its only one of the factors, lack of trust, self interested groups pulling it apart etc being others.

Do I think it will go federal, I think its more likely to go federal than it is to splinter but I don't rule either out, nor do I rule out it staying exactly as it is.

Edited January 13, 2022 by BlueOak

[Bernardo Carleial]

6 hours ago, BlueOak said:

 People likely couldn't lose their national identity, you can see the push back in europe right now and that's centuries of conditioning into that identity. Would it be beneficial to lose this identity anyway longterm? A federal europe stops border disputes and fighting over land, to an extent, but a lot of culture and political self governance is lost as a result. There is a breakdown of identity and a certain amount of apathy which comes as a result which is being seen right now as identities are eroded, though its only one of the factors, lack of trust, self interested groups pulling it apart etc being others.

If they were able to think Holistically that will not happen, they might be able to transcend their nationality and at the same time including their own cultural and social identities, the only thing that will be lost is their attachment to that particular identity...

Of course I know that it's easier said than done, and because this is the first model that we're witnessing(at least at that magnitude), there's still a lot to unfold in European Geopolitics in order for them to be able actualize this project...