Intermediate Fasting/Calories and Gym

[The Caretaker]

Howdy guys! Hope the New Year is bringing you some good stuff.

I want to renew going to the gym this week and I want some recommendations regarding a few topics (just a small 1 sentence response will be enough):

• Fasting and calories surplus - does it make a big difference when I eat if I am able to get all my calories within 24h of my appointment
• Water bottle - I am using mostly a plastic bottle for convenience, shall I look up for a glass/metallic (and how to choose a good one)
• Supplements - I am vegetarian, and I don't really want to use any artificial powders, but I am curious what I can add to my food and water to boost my gains and recovery (stuff like cinnamon, maca, or there is something more specific)

[Michael569]

15 minutes ago, The Caretaker said:

does it make a big difference when I eat if I am able to get all my calories within 24h of my appointment

Mostly not. SOme people are more sensitive to eating late at night and some can not tolerate breakfast but overall it won't make a lot of difference. On terms of gains in gym, it won't make a lot of difference when you eat. 

17 minutes ago, The Caretaker said:

I am using mostly a plastic bottle for convenience, shall I look up for a glass/metallic (and how to choose a good one)

Glass, stainless steal or ceramic is safe. 

17 minutes ago, The Caretaker said:

I am vegetarian, and I don't really want to use any artificial powders, but I am curious what I can add to my food and water to boost my gains and recovery (stuff like cinnamon, maca, or there is something more specific)

Caca or cinnamon won't boost your gains. The balance of your meals, protein intake, carbohydrate intake, meal complexity, sleep etc will make the most difference. And then obviously training hard enough to create enough microdamage in your muscle tissues is also crucial 

[The Caretaker]

@Michael569 Thanks a lot! But I am still slightly confused about this part:
 

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Caca or cinnamon won't boost your gains. The balance of your meals, protein intake, carbohydrate intake, meal complexity, sleep etc will make the most difference. And then obviously training hard enough to create enough microdamage in your muscle tissues is also crucial 

My sleep is good, and the training part will be handled by a coach. I am mostly curious about protein intake and general "gut health". If I have to boil it down to 2 smaller questions:

• Will eating buckwheat, rice, pearl barley, tofu, soy products, white/brown beans, pea, whole pasta/bread, and various nuts (all of them are quite a stable addition to other meals) be enough (and how much/often realistically)? I also eat daily fruits, vegetables, but the main part of my meals are cereals and legumes.
• Is there any root or seed that I can add to my tea/water/smoothie that will skyrocket maybe not my gains, but overall health (basically, something like walnut or blueberries, but in the world of seed/roots), as I neglect them quite a little?

[aurum]

12 hours ago, The Caretaker said:

I am curious what I can add to my food and water to boost my gains and recovery

Check to make sure that your water has essential minerals / electrolytes. Otherwise the hydrating effects will likely be minimal if at all. And if you’re dehydrated, that’s going to affect your performance in the gym and your recovery after.

Reverse osmosis water is usually not remineralized. Spring water is likely best. You can also just add a pinch of salt or some electrolytes. See how you feel.

Be sure to at least eat some of your water in terms of foods that are high in water content. Shouldn’t really be a problem for you as a vegetarian.

Also, if you really want to boost your gains and recovery, take a daily ice bath and / or sauna bath. Heat and cold is extremely good for you in small doses. Red light therapy is also an option if you feel you’re not getting much sunlight.

[The0Self]

Just make sure that whenever you eat, you’re eating protein — that’s the main thing. Intermittent fasting does not appear to have benefits outside of calorie restriction but at least for some it’s a very effective way to do that with ease.

[Michael569]

15 hours ago, The Caretaker said:

Will eating buckwheat, rice, pearl barley, tofu, soy products, white/brown beans, pea, whole pasta/bread, and various nuts (all of them are quite a stable addition to other meals) be enough (and how much/often realistically)? I also eat daily fruits, vegetables, but the main part of my meals are cereals and legumes.

The food groups are good but it doesn't tell much about quantities. That's more important if you want to be in hypertrophy. All of the above are great for bulking but you need to eat a bit in excess. SOmewhere around 450 - 650 calories more per day. I'm not exactly sure what that golden number is for a guy. 1.6-1.8g of protein per kilo of bodyweight would be a good idea. You can probably get there even at 1.4 if you want to make it long term sustainable but it will be slightly slower. 

15 hours ago, The Caretaker said:

Is there any root or seed that I can add to my tea/water/smoothie that will skyrocket maybe not my gains, but overall health (basically, something like walnut or blueberries, but in the world of seed/roots), as I neglect them quite a little?

the word "skyrocket" is a smooth marketing pitch. Nothing can skyrocket anything in health unless you take steroids, pharmaceutical drugs or hardcore drugs. Muscular gain is a slow and lengthy process. It takes years to build up a strong and relatively muscular body. It takes decades to get what you see on Instagram. I don't see how walnuts and berries wouldn't be helpful, they are excellent foods but they won't skyrocket your gains for sure  Make sure to ignore all videos and products promising "quick gains", there are no quick gains, just a bunch of liars taking anabolic steroids profiting of young men's insecurities and impatience. 

Be patient and pace yourself slowly. Tiny steps each month. Train hard but not as hard as to hurt yourself or to burn out. Take enough recovery days (at least 3 per week), eat well, don't skip meals and sleep enough. Over time, you'll see small changes happening. With consistency and patience you can get sick gains within 24-36 months 

[The Caretaker]

Thank you all for your time and effort .

@aurum
My water seems quite good so far. I will check out the composition once more to be sure that it contains all the minerals I need. What is funny tho, I bought once a new kettle and boiled it a few times with tap water to "clean it up". Let's just say that after one boiling, it was all white from the salts .

Also, as far as I know, cold showers/baths help a lot with recovery but slightly inhibit muscle growth. Idk, I've tried to cold shower for a few months in the past and haven't noticed any substantial benefit.

@The0Self
I do 16/8h fasting mostly because it increases my productivity. It feels easier for me to eat just a few times a day, even if it means eating bigger portions. Idk, I just feel more focused when I am hungry.

@Michael569
Hmmm, 140g of protein per day sounds quite a lot for me.  From your experience, is better to consume like 3000+ calories to get all the protein, or maybe It would be wiser to consider, after all, at least a protein powder (tbh I have no clue how to choose a good one)? Getting 2500 calories is doable and sustainable tho.
 

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the word "skyrocket" is a smooth marketing pitch. Nothing can skyrocket anything in health unless you take steroids, pharmaceutical drugs or hardcore drugs. Muscular gain is a slow and lengthy process. It takes years to build up a strong and relatively muscular body. It takes decades to get what you see on Instagram. I don't see how walnuts and berries wouldn't be helpful, they are excellent foods but they won't skyrocket your gains for sure  Make sure to ignore all videos and products promising "quick gains", there are no quick gains, just a bunch of liars taking anabolic steroids profiting of young men's insecurities and impatience. 

Be patient and pace yourself slowly. Tiny steps each month. Train hard but not as hard as to hurt yourself or to burn out. Take enough recovery days (at least 3 per week), eat well, don't skip meals and sleep enough. Over time, you'll see small changes happening. With consistency and patience you can get sick gains within 24-36 months 

Hahah, yeah, I understand that. By "skyrocket", I meant 10-20% increase, not x10. I used to watch a lot of Athlean X back in the days, and it was a very good time to build up some good gym attitude, but he was too dense for me. Right now I am not following any "gym guru" at all (besides Derek, the guy who you recommended, but he is more like a vegan cook than a serious coach ).

The main concern I have (and the reason I started this topic) is that I take everything quite holistically. Considering fitness is quite a heavy mental task for me, thus I want to get as much high-quality info and just start practicing. In a sense, I am not worried that gains will take long, I am worried that I will underperform on any step of the training/recovery and will waste my time.

[aurum]

1 hour ago, The Caretaker said:

Let's just say that after one boiling, it was all white from the salts

That doesn’t sound right to me. No reason boiled water should be turning white unless it’s just bubbles. You don’t need or want kilograms of minerals, just some. I’d definitely look into that.

1 hour ago, The Caretaker said:

Also, as far as I know, cold showers/baths help a lot with recovery but slightly inhibit muscle growth. Idk, I've tried to cold shower for a few months in the past and haven't noticed any substantial benefit.

Couple of points here.

First, don’t do it directly after working out if you’re interested in hypotrophy. There is some research saying a cold water immersion will essentially blunt hypotrophy due to the decrease in inflammation, which is probably what you’re referring. Keep in mind hypotrophy is not equivalent to strength, it’s more about muscle size. So it might be a concern if you’re seriously interested in bodybuilding. Either way, just wait a couple hours. Hit the sauna instead, that will actually stimulate HGH (growth hormone).

Second, you’re not going to be building muscle if your cortisol is high and you’re stressed. The cold helps with that. That same reduction of inflammation in the right context is incredibly good for you, as just about all ill-health can be boiled down to some form of excessive inflammation. It’s also going to train your vascular system and challenge a lot of important processes in your body. So indirectly, it definitely can help you build muscle.

With regards to your personal experiment, how long were you in the shower and how cold was it? There is sort of a minimum effective dose, and if you don’t cross it, you’re not going to see much effect. Likewise, if you go too cold or rewarm too fast, that can also reduce the benefits.

Either way, cold showers are not the equivalent of shooting steroids. It’s not like you take them and then suddenly your biceps get a 1/3 bigger. Most of the benefits are less superficial than that. You can’t necessarily see how strong someone’s vascular system is just by looking at them. And the psychological / spiritual benefits can be subtle as well. You got to stick with it consistently over time to really get it.

[The Caretaker]

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That doesn’t sound right to me. No reason boiled water should be turning white unless it’s just bubbles. You don’t need or want kilograms of minerals, just some. I’d definitely look into that.

The kettle became white, not the water. The heating element boiled the tap water and a lot of minerals just got stuck on it. Gladly, my usual water leaves no trace of excess salts after boiling.
 

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Couple of points here.

First, don’t do it directly after working out if you’re interested in hypotrophy. There is some research saying a cold water immersion will essentially blunt hypotrophy due to the decrease in inflammation, which is probably what you’re referring. Keep in mind hypotrophy is not equivalent to strength, it’s more about muscle size. So it might be a concern if you’re seriously interested in bodybuilding. Either way, just wait a couple hours. Hit the sauna instead, that will actually stimulate HGH (growth hormone).

Ok, I've never considered a sauna before (I will ask if my gym branch has a good one). If I understand correctly, between cold showers and sauna, you would recommend the latest, yes?
 

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Second, you’re not going to be building muscle if your cortisol is high and you’re stressed. The cold helps with that. That same reduction of inflammation in the right context is incredibly good for you, as just about all ill-health can be boiled down to some form of excessive inflammation. It’s also going to train your vascular system and challenge a lot of important processes in your body. So indirectly, it definitely can help you build muscle.

With regards to your personal experiment, how long were you in the shower and how cold was it? There is sort of a minimum effective dose, and if you don’t cross it, you’re not going to see much effect. Likewise, if you go too cold or rewarm too fast, that can also reduce the benefits.

Actually, I get way more stressed after a cold shower. I've done it for ~60 days max as an experiment, and all I got from it was a PTSD/anxiety to shower a few weeks after I finished. I did it to train my willpower and see If I will feel more energetic/rested afterward. In reality, I got trouble sleeping after the first few weeks + my feet were extremely cold and almost impossible to warm (even with socks) after them.

Idk, maybe the main problem with them was the fact that I shower in the evenings, not morning + I did them full cold, without any warm gradation. I still do them, very rarely, but again, mostly for spicy sensations than health benefits.
 

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Either way, cold showers are not the equivalent of shooting steroids. It’s not like you take them and then suddenly your biceps get a 1/3 bigger. Most of the benefits are less superficial than that. You can’t necessarily see how strong someone’s vascular system is just by looking at them. And the psychological / spiritual benefits can be subtle as well. You got to stick with it consistently over time to really get it.

Yeah, I totally get that. But again, I've done them for reasons other than gains. There is already a lot on my plate to consider other than cold showers before I develop any stable habit.

[Alex_R]

It depends if you want to cut fat or build muscle, for cutting Fasting is the best you can do, but for bulking it might be possible that you end up not beign able to process all the calories with just one or two single meals a day.

 

In any case you need to take 2x your weight in protein every day regardless or not you are a vegetarian.

[The Caretaker]

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It depends if you want to cut fat or build muscle, for cutting Fasting is the best you can do, but for bulking it might be possible that you end up not beign able to process all the calories with just one or two single meals a day.

Yeah, this might be the case. Rn I am considering eating 3 times during workout days and see if this somehow affects my productivity in other areas.

Also, "funny update". My coach told me that fruits are bad bc they contain a lot of fructose (aka a lot of calories/sugar) and that all carbs are "pure evil" . Idk, he is looking at them mostly from a losing weight perspective, but even then fruits are good for your health, besides just gains...