You are not awake, you are privileged

[Identity]

 

Just saw this post on Instagram and figured it was a good discussion starter.

my personal take;

It is one of many perspectives. This way of looking at some of the new-age people and content that exist does have some validity to it. 
Although the people he is pointing to usually might have had some genuine insight or increased their awareness, that can easily used in unhealthy, unproductive ways and be co-opted by ego to be used as excuse and separation.

That being said, this post and perspective is partial and feels to me as being packed with anger and judgement.

Watching new-age content and hanging around with people who use the word awakening one too many times is quite enjoyable to me. I guess this new-age wave is one of the manifestations of stage green.

Making sure to take care of survival and grounding in the ‘real-world’ first, seems like a good idea to me though.

What are your thoughts on this post?

[PurpleTree]

my thoughts are this person is too angry and mostly ranting

he might have a point

what he's talking about is the kind of "spiritual ego" i guess

but he's similar to someone i know who used to be into yoga and spirituality and now became angry and kind of dislikes it and rants about it, especially since the "pandemic"

[Thought Art]

Seems like he is just blaming everyone and being a victim... Spirituality or pursuing success looks different for everyone. Not everyone can escape slave labour thats just a fact. It's a harsh reality... But, still... people can improve their lives I think.

Anyway, go provide some value if you want to. You don't need to do what other people want you to do.

No shame in having a job no matter what it is. Love what is. But, listen to your intuition if you want to improve your situation.

Sadly... Even the most educated doctors, nurses and architects are pretty privileged.. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Thought Art

[Vynce]

I get what he thinks about "spiritual egos", and how they subconsciously separate themselves as "more developed" or "wiser". But if he'd know a truly spiritual person, he would think otherwise.

Conveniently you can see "fake spirituality" super easy, if you are serious about it yourself. Just notice if people see themselves as spiritual if they think and talk about it, like someone into math would do math. Spirituality is not done like math. It is not done by any mental activity.

It is being. Being there with what is.

Being, without any ideas of how being has to be. This works without secret knowledge, mushrooms or some dude from Austin. In fact, all those things hinder you from being there with what is. 

[Identity]

47 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

my thoughts are this person is too angry and mostly ranting

he might have a point

what he's talking about is the kind of "spiritual ego" i guess

but he's similar to someone i know who used to be into yoga and spirituality and now became angry and kind of dislikes it and rants about it, especially since the "pandemic"

Yes agreed, he might have a point, but it seems to be a judgement ‘from below not from above’ so to speak.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

Definitely contains a kernel of truth. Maybe more than just a kernel.

But then again, it's only true if it's true for you, right? 

[mandyjw]

There just aren't spiritual people. Such a relief. Ever seen someone in action who is really, really good at their job? It's fucking breathtaking. Just as breathtaking as seeing an awesome performance of your favorite musician at a concert, or actor in a movie, or whatever. You ARE the recognition/appreciation of it. Same as in the appreciation of a sunset or a flower, etc. 

There are people in the flow, and people resisting it. Doesn't matter what exactly they do or don't do, it's how. It's not about the person, they aren't even the same people. There aren't even people to shame people for being normal people or spiritual elitist people. Shame. 

[Flowerfaeiry]

I agree 100%. 

[Michal__]

Well, they're stating the obvious - you shouldn't try to become enlightened from your mother's basement. 

[blackchair]

whole post is full of anger 

[Loba]

Sounds angry...

I get to be that person they speak about.
It's not all it's cracked up to be if you're not faking it.
And I found my wisdom through facing Death, just like anyone else in a dire situation.
And now my life is safe, comfortable, and protected and my channeling isn't free, the world has to pay for the information...
So I get services, a comfortable life, and offer channeling and learning, free of charge to the world.
As long as I can keep focusing on writing...
It's my calling; it strikes a match in me.
I bring information back from beyond.
As best I can, and will continue to practice this.
And society can and will pay for my time spent - as is what the community does for shamans.
The spirit guides and all of you in the u.s. set it up for me.  And I don't take too much.
And I offer the complete contents of a bared soul.
So I say... don't be angry.
I'm still ignorant.  Teach me.
I am privileged.  You wish you were.  Don't hate me for it. 
Just let me do my work.  That's all I ask.
It is okay to protect the peculiar.
It isn't our concern to lament over your life - at all; our concern is to look beyond our bubble and see what is outside, into the beyond - condense it, and give it to the people.  It sounds unkind, but shamans are somewhat mad; and riddled with it.  We are bound to the spirit world, and this world is just residual, as the spirit world always tugs on our souls - wishing to bring it back.  We can't work.  How can you work with your soul halfway out of your body?  And why should you, if that circumstance is supposed to be that way?

I am mad with the need to write myself back into sanity and the bitterness of those unable to have the ability to do the same is not on my conscience.  I am a creative, an artist.  I'm blessed.  Do the work to find your own blessings, they don't come free for anyone.  I still struggle, my struggles are just invisible to the outside world.

[kieranperez]

This post is honestly really spot. To tell you the truth, I’ve struggled with that myself as the kind of person this person talks about in her post probably does apply to me in some way. I would certainly say it 100% did a few years ago but I think I’m out of a lot of it now and I see a lot of what she talks about all the time and I can sympathize with that sort of frustration with bullshit because I see it all over the place, particularly on sites like this one where “people” are usually lumped into one big idea and are referred to as just deluded sheep or chimps and so forth and that “people are just wasting their lives”. When in fact many of those so called deluded a people are the ones that might not be the most educated but might be single parents holding down the fort for a house of 3 kids or working at a hospital or whatever.

This person really did hit the nail on the head though when it came to the comment on doing a psychedelics and now thinking they know how the world works and using all these bullshit words almost as a form of jerking off. 

10 hours ago, Identity said:

That being said, this post and perspective is partial and feels to me as being packed with anger and judgement.

All because there’s anger in a communication doesn’t make it wrong. Jesus expressed a lot of anger when he flipped over the money tables in the temple. Same goes for judgement. You’re judging things all the time in the very way you perceive things. If you pull up on the block in East Los Angeles and you see 7 dudes dressed in all red that look at you with a fierce death glare, you're going to judge and you’d be a fool to rationalize otherwise. You’re judging and assessing this persons post, otherwise you’d have no disposition. Practice making good quality judgements. Which ironically is what this post seems to be an exercise in. A partial view that is calling out blatant spiritual bullshit by people that are ignorant of the privilege they inhabit while they parade some pseudo spiritual superiority or something because they think they’re onto something almost nobody else is on to.

To some extent I think the behavior is kind of understandable and I think it does take some arrogance coming into this path because fundamentally it isn’t all that common and does tend to appear to grind against the grain when it comes to what most people seem to be up to. That said, there are also gross excesses that people, myself included, be really ignorant to because they don’t realize the kind of privilege they sit on.

[Jodistrict]

Judging, anger, or feeling superior always comes from the ego.  But he is doing the same thing, i.e he feels superior to the hypocritical New Agers.   It’s not true that only the privileged are into spirituality and healing.  In my last ayahuasca ceremony, the man next to me was a policeman.  I do all my ceremonies is Mexico, where people are more authentic and community oriented and come from all walks of life.  There are also experienced shamen who know how to hold the space. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Jodistrict

[kieranperez]

1 minute ago, Jodistrict said:

Judging, anger, or feeling superior always comes from the ego

As do all ideas, thinking, and everything else that comes with an experience of self. The ego is also responsible for saving a puppy that’s about to get run over by a truck. 

3 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

It’s not true that only the priviledged are into spirituality and healing.  In my last ayahuasca ceremony, the man next to me was a policeman.  I do all my ceremonies is Mexico, where people are more authentic and community oriented and come from all walks of life.  There are also experienced shamen who know how to hold the space. 

That is not the point being made. 

[Whatever]

Anger isnt the enemy. Misplaced anger is. Good luck with your "flow" while damning the anger with pseuso peace and fake positivity.

Think this dude is spot on. Seen lot of people here acting superior and "detatched" because they have isolated themselves from daily difficulties of life and relationships into cocoon of what they call meditation. Only distractions are your own toughts to which you can simply take meditative distance to. Pinnacle of this kind of spirituality seems to be some kind of dissociation they call enlightenment. Been there too.

Harsh reality came when I lost those priviledges and found myself in need of others and in fact whole world in dependence to eachother. Problem isnt sense of having a self but inability to ask, to receive, to need, to be humbled to realise I cant manage everything alone, so truly to depend on love, not mine but others, universal love acting in between all of us, connecting us.

Meditation can easily become means to that tryna make it alone to be independent of anyone or anything.. talk about sense of seperation (or rather, isolation).

Edited January 10, 2022 by Whatever

[Mulky]

He has somewhat of a point.  There is a big difference between having equanimity with things you only observe or think about, and having equanimity with things that are actually happening in your life, all around you.  It is also true, however, most people that I have met, have no interest in being still or inwardly attentive.  If given any amount of free time, they wouldn't use any of it for spiritual practices in earnest.  Those who have the desire and also the privileg are lucky in a way.   Most humans are required to use their mind, most of the day, in ways that are not expansive , blissful, or beautiful, in order to make a living.  I, like you, can imagine them doing it while being in a state of grace, but I'm just imaging it, I'm not actually in the experience.  In the actual experience, it's way more difficult.

It is true that, for the most part, very few people care at all about inner peace.  There are people that do, and their life makes very challenging to dedicate the time to exploring that part of themselves.

[Whatever]

6 minutes ago, Mulky said:

He has somewhat of a point.  There is a big difference between having equanimity with things you only observe or think about, and having equanimity with things that are actually happening in your life, all around you.  It is also true, however, most people that I have met, have no interest in being still or inwardly attentive.  If given any amount of free time, they wouldn't use any of it for spiritual practices in earnest.  Those who have the desire and also the privileg are lucky in a way.   Most humans are required to use their mind, most of the day, in ways that are not expansive , blissful, or beautiful, in order to make a living.  I, like you, can imagine them doing it while being in a state of grace, but I'm just imaging it, I'm not actually in the experience.  In the actual experience, it's way more difficult.

It is true that, for the most part, very few people care at all about inner peace.  There are people that do, and their life makes very challenging to dedicate the time to exploring that part of themselves.

Its not that people dont care about inner peace. Its that inner peace isnt really a goal for spirituality with any depht. Inner peace is sacrificed in a heartbeat if loving and serving others and God reguires it.

Saying people "dont care about inner peace" belittles their sacrifice and suffering. As if chilling in peace and priviledge is the highest virtue.. to me Its merely a resting place where I can rest, recharge and be loved to share that love with others, not to become end stop for love. Love as all good things are best recycled.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Whatever

[Mulky]

How is inner peace not a goal in spirituality with any depth?  We are just doing things for their form in physical reality?  Why do you care about how anything is at all, it's because of the one experiencing life, and what their existence is like.  So you don't want peace for you and them, is there something else you want?  I'm not denying the suffering humans experience, I'm saying the alleviation of that is what I care about.  Helping people is great but what is the thing you want for them ultimately?  I assume it goes beyond just physical survival.  

I Agree with you that it is pretty easy to be detached and spiritual when you don't have to work or do anything.  For most of us, almost every persons perspective is something we have very little real understanding of, we think we do, but there are so many little details there that we don't really know.  Every kind of person from every walk of life in every job, we know all about our own problems in great detail, but they experience types of pain's and struggles we probably haven't considered.  And unless we had the same experience we won't intimately know their type of suffering, we aren't likely to appreciate it.   All the perspectives are true, we feel that way because of the life we have had, it was our experience, only we know that particular flavor of life that was had.  If you think you don't understand someone else, you would if you were them.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Mulky

[Whatever]

35 minutes ago, Mulky said:

How is inner peace not a goal in spirituality with any depth?  We are just doing things for their form in physical reality?  Why do you care about how anything is at all, it's because of the one experiencing life, and what their existence is like.  So you don't want peace for you and them, is there something else you want?  I'm not denying the suffering humans experience, I'm saying the alleviation of that is what I care about.  Helping people is great but what is the thing you want for them ultimately?  I assume it goes beyond just physical survival.  

I Agree with you that it is pretty easy to be detached and spiritual when you don't have to work or do anything.  For most of us, almost every persons perspective is something we have very little real understanding of, we think we do, but there are so many little details there that we don't really know.  Every kind of person from every walk of life in every job, we know all about our own problems in great detail, but they experience types of pain's and struggles we probably haven't considered.  And unless we had the same experience we won't intimately know their type of suffering, we aren't likely to appreciate it.   All the perspectives are true, we feel that way because of the life we have had, it was our experience, only we know that particular flavor of life that was had.  If you think you don't understand someone else, you would if you were them.

I dont claim to understand anyone else better than they do themselves if at all, nor that I know their needs. Its that I want to get to know other people as they are and that process is much more illuminating on understanding of myself too than just meditating or "becoming nothing" since different aspects of myself are present in relation to different people. Its also much more grimy, difficult and messy which I assume is an obstacle to inner peace thats talked about in here a lot. Its also what is bypassed in order to focus on spirituality that revolves around ones inner peace. Its just inclusiveness of other people generally and not taking spirituality to be some sort of solo project of seeing thru illusions. Its life lived with aspiration to love with best of my ability.

But truth is, sometimes Im only able to love from quite a distance, so I go to retreat or smth in order to regain some inner peace to share with others. So I could live in the world and be an endstop to reactivity while not repressing my emotional life and being thru to others... Its a difficult fucking combination ?

 

So in a nutshell, inner peace that is an outcome of isolating oneself from difficulty I dont see as virtuous. Inner peace shared and received thru interaction with others is realer to me.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Whatever

[Mulky]

One more thing...

I had a time when I didn't have to do anything but walk around and zen out, and I was, balls deep in zen, for a few years.  I mean I was gone, from this planet, pretty much, my mind was like  the sky. I was so at peace and equanimous and everything, then guess what?  I had to  do stuff, work, and think at work, and react, and focus, and sort of half focus, etc.  And nobody, at work, cared about my state, there were no policies in place to protect my state, it wasn't on any ones radar, I couldn't ask for help with it.  So guess, what, gradually, and painfully, I got dragged out of zen and into... human activity.  Now, after first hand studying of how all of this works within my own mind... I would be amazed to find any human that could maintain his zen through all of that, or in pretty much any job.  And also, it was extremely painful, even physically, within my whole nervous system.  There was a very real sense I was leaving my natural and graceful way of being in order to maintain my physical survival.  The zen way felt natural, this way, doesn't sit right with my soul, so to speak.  But I do it anyway, still to this day, I can't just bail on my family.  And that is probably how it is for a lot of people.  And please understand I am using the word zen for lack of a better word and not as the literal exact definition of zen.

I don't think every human is meant for the same role.  I actually think some people are supposed to live like that, with help from others, because it does yield benefits to everyone, to have those peaceful frequency holders.  But that is not a role valued by our society right now.  The spiritual lessons that come after that are even stronger than the ones before, but it is very hard and painful.