My gf isn't a virgin.. and it's troubling me. What should I do?

[Lyubov]

59 minutes ago, flowboy said:

Personal insecurities relating to her having more experience sexually than you (blaming her for now having less value (less trustworthy) is more comfortable to the ego than facing that you actually feel insecure, so many people use this unconsciously as a cover)

This is actually well put. I actually want to build on this some.

To the OP: If you feel hurt that her past is different from yours, then it's up to you to work through what you are believing about yourself, what you are believing her past says about you, what you are believing about her and women in general, etc. How does this stuff make you feel? What does her past touch on for you? Anything from your past it triggers? A lot of the fear of her cheating could be deep rooted pain and envy that you "missed out" or this is all touching on some deeper wound. Blaming her and worrying about her cheating can be a sort of way of avoiding just the deep rooted pain and envy that you missed out on experiences she has had and it can even go deeper than that to stuff from feeling neglected in school or at home as a child. You gotta start digging to see what this is connected to.

I don't know you or your relationship though. It can be confusing if you feel sort of unsure about the boundaries and don't know what is healthy or not in a relationship when it comes to these. This is where it's important to be building non blaming/nonjudgemental communication with her like I wrote in my previous post. I provided a good book on this. 

Also being really honest with yourself about your own desires, what you want in a partner, etc is incredibly important as well. I've seen there are sort of two distinct voices to this issue when it comes to a man that is bothered by his gf's sexual past. One voice says to deal with it yourself, that it's all your own insecurities, etc and another voice that says to dump her, she isn't worthy of your love, find a different girl, etc.

I think there actually needs to be a sort of balance between these two. On one hand you do need to address these insecurities and go inward but also you need to be honest about what you would like in a partner and what you realistically can be comfortable with in a relationship in relation to her past experiences. There isn't anything wrong with wanting to date a woman that has a similar past or experiences as yours. But be clear and own your decisions. If you choose to stay with and marry this woman acknowledge that you compromised/sacrificed on this and decided to choose her over your emotions telling you how you feel bothered by this. Don't flip it around and then blame her for her past later and let it leech out through a lack of trust and suspicion, don't use it against her when you feel short changed. She has made you somewhat/fully aware of what her past is like it sounds like so it's up to you to be honest with yourself if you can accept it in marriage or not.

I would look to honor both sides but realize you have a ton of freedom here to work through this and plenty of choices you can make, be honest with yourself where your "edge" is (the end of your comfort zone). Try to live just a little beyond it but also realize going too far from it can make life very unenjoyable. There is nothing wrong with letting go of someone if a long term future with them is too far out of your comfort zone due to your differences. Go inward but also honor who you are mostly likely to be compatible with and what you can realistically handle in a marriage. I would start with the inner stuff first and prioritize it, you can slowly adjust the outer stuff when you feel clear in your choices. I would also be working on your communication skills with her. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Lyubov

[somegirl]

@Bobby_2021 Well since you are in stage blue , it's not weird that you have these views. 

But I would suggest, as crazy as that sounds, that a girl is able to live her own life however she wants. Her not being a virgin is not something she should be judged for. It might even be a good thing so she won't be totally clueless about it and might even know what she likes so she can be a better lover to you too.

But these are all extreme ideas I would assume, in a stage blue mind. 

You two simply might not be suitable for each other because you have different views on life.

Edited January 9, 2022 by somegirl

[Bobby_2021]

25 minutes ago, somegirl said:

@Bobby_2021 as crazy as that sounds, that a girl is able to live her own life however she wants. Her not being a virgin is not something she should be judged for. It might even be a good thing so she won't be totally clueless about it and might even know what she likes so she can be a better lover to you too.

Of course, my respect for her hasn't gone down one bit because of this. 

I don't see why it should be even a reason to judge her.

 

But I have certain expectations from my life partner. I like to call it evaluations rather than judgements.

Just like women may not prefer a broke man, it isn't because of being broke is a reason for judging him.

That's all.

 

 

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, Gregory1 said:

Well it shows you that in stage blue countries people are conditioned with beliefs about marriage that make them forcefully stay in their marriage even if it's not right for them.

You have been conditioned with childish beliefs since you where born and now you just blindly follow an agenda that will never lead you to happiness and only to misery.

I would rather believe in some bullshit and suffer rather than gambling for a 50% chance of my net worth being halved and paying alimony and child support for the rest of my life for my ex.

Staying in abusive marriages may not be right. So as divorcing and leaving the mental health of the man in ruins and have his children taken away from him. Both are not right.

As I said I care about results.

As a man, a lot of people don't care about you. A man is valued for generating results.

 

Also I don't think marriages break down solely because of abuse.

 

Marriages break down since both people do not invest into making the marriage work. Such investments to making it work isn't there in post blue societies in my opinion.

 

P.S please Don't turn this into a blue vs orange/green debate.

As I said this is purely concerned with results and making some institution work.

 

I am not ideological and approch the situation with good self awareness. 

Cheers.?

 

[somegirl]

18 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Just like women may not prefer a broke man, it isn't because of being broke is a reason for judging him.

Very true. It's because there is a reason why a man might be broke, and most of those reasons are not good/attractive to a girl (i.e. being lazy, not ambitious, man-child etc.). 

And for a girl, if she is not a virgin, what is the reason behind that? She had sex with another man before you. That's all. Is it such a big deal? Seems so, to some people. 

[Gregory1]

14 minutes ago, somegirl said:

Very true. It's because there is a reason why a man might be broke, and most of those reasons are not good/attractive to a girl (i.e. being lazy, not ambitious, man-child etc.). 

And for a girl, if she is not a virgin, what is the reason behind that? She had sex with another man before you. That's all. Is it such a big deal? Seems so, to some people.

Yeah, for stage blue poopheads.

Not for all men.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Gregory1

[Bobby_2021]

32 minutes ago, somegirl said:

 

And for a girl, if she is not a virgin, what is the reason behind that? She had sex with another man before you. That's all. Is it such a big deal? Seems so, to some people. 

If you live in blue societies you meet plenty of girls who saving them for marriage.

To me it shows that they are *invested* into making the marriage work. Once she has sex with a man, it's because she has decided that he is her husband and nothing can seperate them. That gives structure and stability to marriage, and there is no comparing present partner with the past partner.

[Humans can't stop instinctual comparisons, it's design by nature.]

 

Am i being ideological about my expectations?

Nope. I have decent self awareness.(atleast i think so)

Do I consider it, given that I have options to choose girls that meets my expectations?

Yes. And I speak for all men. 

No man will choose a non virgin if he has the choice to choose otherwise.

This is true 100% of the time. 

Any man that tells you otherwise is blatantly lying. 

 

 

[Raptorsin7]

4 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

She tells me everything once she is back home.

But she doesn't like to be called on phone when she is out.

 

The point is that she likes to be in positions where she may not be loyal.

Okay I think this is a different story. I think it's not fair to expect someone to give you constant updates while they are out. But depending on what she's doing, this may be a deal breaker for you.

If you aren't happy with how she lives her life then I would suggest finding someone more compatible with what you want. I'd assume India is full of woman who don't want to go out, and want to spend their time at home caring for their family.

 

[Bobby_2021]

20 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

You really only have 2 choices here: either you drop your stage blue mindset, or you find a different girl, more suited to your current needs.

Choose wisely.

This is perfectly said.

 

Thank you Hoarder.

[Bobby_2021]

7 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Okay I think this is a different story. I think it's not fair to expect someone to give you constant updates while they are out. But depending on what she's doing, this may be a deal breaker for you.

See first of all everyone fails to see the ground reality in India. India is not a safe place. We have a corrupt police system. Things go downhill anytime real fast.

So whenever we are out our parents ask for constant updates and ask us to come home early. It's because our safety is at stake here.

It's very convenient for people who grew up in the west to say.."oh look a Neurotic stage blue nut case." 

Noone is asking for constant updates.

But updates regarding where someone has went, who they are with is generally necessary. Because the circumstances here is the towns are such.

After 8 PM there is minimal human activity, and it's generally not safe, especially for girls. One bad incident and you are traumatized for life.

 

Few understand this. Anyway it still doesn't bother me.

 

I wanted to speak to someone about the situation and wanted fresh perspectives to stop thinking the same things over and over.

 

I have got it from this discussion and I am grateful for it, especially for the views critical of myself.

[Raptorsin7]

2 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

See first of all everyone fails to see the ground reality in India. India is not a safe place. We have a corrupt police system. Things go downhill anytime real fast.

So whenever we are out our parents ask for constant updates and ask us to come home early. It's because our safety is at stake here.

It's very convenient for people who grew up in the west to say.."oh look a Neurotic stage blue nut case." 

Noone is asking for constant updates.

But updates regarding where someone has went, who they are with is generally necessary. Because the circumstances here is the towns are such.

After 8 PM there is minimal human activity, and it's generally not safe, especially for girls. One bad incident and you are traumatized for life.

 

Few understand this. Anyway it still doesn't bother me.

 

I wanted to speak to someone about the situation and wanted fresh perspectives to stop thinking the same things over and over.

 

I have got it from this discussion and I am grateful for it, especially for the views critical of myself.

Okay that's a fair point. So is she reckless and not concerned about her own safety at night?

What is your biggest issue with her behavior or mindset?

[bejapuskas]

9 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

She frequently goes to her friends houses and she doesn't like to be reached on phone when she is out. I have long periods (4 month +) when I am away for my work. I don't doubt her. I am sure she is loyal.

I want to marry her and she wants it too. But her past keeps bugging me. 

You are talking about marriage, which is serious, so I will be harsh here.

You do doubt her, stop telling this lie to justify your mindset.

Why would her having sex in the past bug you? Do you try to understand her context?

4 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

She tells me everything once she is back home.

But she doesn't like to be called on phone when she is out.

The point is that she likes to be in positions where she may not be loyal.

Do you like to be called by your mum when you are out with friends, and even asked to describe everything you are doing in detail?

This might just be a symptom of her wanting to escape your possessiveness.

4 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Maybe. But India is not the safest place in the world for girls. She must always be in some male company for her safety, atleast at night.

I don't like her being in close proximity with other males.

I don't think she will flirt back to anyone, ever, even if someone tries to hit on her. I do trust her.

But I should be the one she relies on for safety, not some other men. 

 

I do trust her.

I don't trust the men around her.

 

The whole situation feels wrong to me.

 

P.S you said in your 3 part video series on sexuality that having more sex for a woman decreases her value. 

Well in a stage blue partriachal country like India there are loads of girls who are adamant that they lose virginity only after marriage.

I am merely exercising my options by wanting a "high value" girl. 

How does that make me needy?

My only pain is going to be that I wasted her time and my time with breaking up.

But if you have these 4 month long trips and it is not safe for her to go out alone, do you just want her to stay inside? What do you think she should do in this case? Do you want her to quarantine?

If you trust her with not responding to hitting on her, what is bothering you then? It does not sound to me that you are ONLY worried about her physical safety. I hope if some man had nonconsensual sex with her, you woud not think it decreased HER value?

4 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Women are a little dramatic to be honest and in some conflict after if she ever refers to her ex, I am going to flip out. 

Well in India, lots of girls have sex only after marriage, still. I feel like the quality will be higher with a virgin girl than a non virgin.

Any man will select a virgin over a non virgin, only if he had the chance.

This is true 100% of the time.

 

Am I being needy for wanting what every man wants? Well I don't have issues entertaining that perspective.

I don't think I am, or maybe not.

Stop with these stereotypes and "speaking for everyone" statements. You are not speaking for everyone. 

Watch yourself justify the very things you are insecure about, trying to present yourself as more reasonable.

3 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I already told you I am from a stage blue country. I have decent self awareness of what I am doing.

 

I want to maximize the success of my marriage. That's the only thing I value.

 

Divorce courts here skin the man alive. 

 

Stage blue societies treat marriage as sacred. I thought I should get acceptance for that.

Post stage blue countries have almost 50% divorce rate. That maybe a slight indication that blue societies capture something about marriage that higher stages may not.

 

It's only about marriage.

You are interested in your marriage, but what about her marriage? Do you think this marriage has one or two people in it? Are both equally important, or is the woman just "dramatic" and the man is the one who knows the truth?

And they definitely do not skin the woman, right. I would imagine the woman could even be honor killed. Maybe it is this horrible reality of people being in danger if they try to get a divorce.

[How to be wise]

4 hours ago, Lyubov said:

Stop gaslighting him and filling his head with insecurities. This is untrue. Just because you can’t intuitively read women like this doesn’t mean other guys can. 

Nobody can read women intuitively, except for a psychic. 

Almost all relationship coaches and professionals agree on this: Once a cheater, always a cheater. If you know she cheated in the past, it’s best to look for a better prospect rather than spend your whole life sleeping with one eye open. The most important thing to a man is loyalty, commitment and monogamy. You can’t just let your guard down. This applies to all men, not just the op. 

[B222]

At least you’re not being abusive. Too needy tho stop it 

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, somegirl said:

Very true. It's because there is a reason why a man might be broke, and most of those reasons are not good/attractive to a girl (i.e. being lazy, not ambitious, man-child etc.). 

And for a girl, if she is not a virgin, what is the reason behind that? She had sex with another man before you. That's all. Is it such a big deal? Seems so, to some people. 

This is pure bias though for you to think the former is more justified than the later. Men are entitled to feel the way they do and not want to date a woman with a past different from theirs. There is a good Oscar Wilde quote: "Women want men with a future, men want women with a past." I'm not saying any man has to prescribe to this nor HAS to feel bothered by their girl's past. I also don't think it's fair weaponizing her past and using it to play a blame game if she has been honest about it. If a guy is not bothered by his gf's past if there are differences, I fully respect him and don't think anyone else's insecurities should be projected on him. In a way I'm a bit envious of such men for being so present. Her past doesn't define her and doesn't mean she is a bad person. I am not judging women here. But those feelings are valid for men to have and if they would prefer to date a woman with similar experience as them that's okay too. 

[Lyubov]

38 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Nobody can read women intuitively, except for a psychic. 

Almost all relationship coaches and professionals agree on this: Once a cheater, always a cheater. If you know she cheated in the past, it’s best to look for a better prospect rather than spend your whole life sleeping with one eye open. The most important thing to a man is loyalty, commitment and monogamy. You can’t just let your guard down. This applies to all men, not just the op. 

you actually have no clue what you are talking about, but ok, keep believing this. enjoy this fortress you've built for yourself. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Lyubov

[Gregory1]

1 minute ago, Lyubov said:

you actually have no clue what you are talking about, but ok, keep believing this. enjoy this fortress you've built for yourself. 

Exactly. His comment was complete bullshit - from start to end.

[mememe]

@Bobby_2021 the situation is not as complex as you make it. women in your country seem to be further developed than males. just because mainstream males are having backwards perspectives and are stuck in a blue mindset does not make your perspective openminded.

if virginity is more valuable than the person you like, you are an a*****! from not only a western perspective. like most guys around here you only listen to what you want to hear anyways. better let her be free. i really feel third party embarassed for her, regarding the way you talked furher up, talking about prefering a virgin, so she’s a cow on the market? you probably also slept with her. i’m just shocked about the level of selfdeception and scapegoat mentality towards women. i’d really hope you had more respect for yourself and trust in your choices, or maybe in the end it’s you betraying her with a virgin.

Edited January 9, 2022 by mememe

[How to be wise]

31 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

you actually have no clue what you are talking about, 

Maybe I don’t, but relationship experts do. Everything I said is exactly what they teach in their books and courses. 

[somegirl]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

No man will choose a non virgin if he has the choice to choose otherwise.

This is true 100% of the time. 

Oof. Bold claim. I guess girl's value really do decrease in blue stage societies once she sleeps with more than one man in her entire human life. 
Oh well, whatever. If you're subscribing to this kind of thinking, and think there is nothing wrong with it, I can't really do anything about it. This kind of perspective has deep roots.