My gf isn't a virgin.. and it's troubling me. What should I do?

[Thought Art]

@somegirl Ahaha, I never even think about Virgins... I'd prefer to find a good lover first and foremost.

[Roy]

2 hours ago, somegirl said:

And for a girl, if she is not a virgin, what is the reason behind that? She had sex with another man before you. That's all. Is it such a big deal? Seems so, to some people. 

In old, traditional, patriarchal societies it's a massive deal. From their point of view it means she is "wild" and can no longer be controlled.

It's much easier to groom a virgin into being an obedient/dependent partner then someone with experience being independent and knowing how fun and awesome sex with a bunch of different people is.

It's about rigid power with Blue, then opens up to liberation and freedom with Orange, which is it's own form of power (individual vs collective).

[How to be wise]

53 minutes ago, somegirl said:

I guess girl's value really do decrease in blue stage societies once she sleeps with more than one man in her entire human life.

Of course there are more important factors. But all things being equal, every man would prefer if their girl didn’t fuck another guy. I think it’s pretty obvious. 

Try telling your current boyfriend how you and your ex fucked each other. Of course he won’t like it.

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

You are talking about marriage, which is serious, so I will be harsh here.

You do doubt her, stop telling this lie to justify your mindset.

Why would her having sex in the past bug you? Do you try to understand her context?

Do you like to be called by your mum when you are out with friends, and even asked to describe everything you are doing in detail?

This might just be a symptom of her wanting to escape your possessiveness.

But if you have these 4 month long trips and it is not safe for her to go out alone, do you just want her to stay inside? What do you think she should do in this case? Do you want her to quarantine?

If you trust her with not responding to hitting on her, what is bothering you then? It does not sound to me that you are ONLY worried about her physical safety. I hope if some man had nonconsensual sex with her, you woud not think it decreased HER value?

Stop with these stereotypes and "speaking for everyone" statements. You are not speaking for everyone. 

Watch yourself justify the very things you are insecure about, trying to present yourself as more reasonable.

You are interested in your marriage, but what about her marriage? Do you think this marriage has one or two people in it? Are both equally important, or is the woman just "dramatic" and the man is the one who knows the truth?

And they definitely do not skin the woman, right. I would imagine the woman could even be honor killed. Maybe it is this horrible reality of people being in danger if they try to get a divorce.

I don't judge her as a person. SHe is doing perfectly fine from her context and I accept it. SHe has the freedom to marry absolutely anyone.

I don't object to it.

"I hope if some man had nonconsensual sex with her, you woud not think it decreased HER value?"

ok let me also be harsh here. Having sex with her without her consent is rape. If she is raped, she is traumatised for life. I have to hire a therapist to undo the damage. She won't be a as functional as she used to be, depending on how violent the rape was. The repressed trauma won't go away so easily. So atleast in theory her value is decreased. Harsh but true,

You ask a lot of questions, and not so much explanations. I can't answer all your questions since they may require deeper explanations.

Stereotypes have lots of truth inside them. Else they won't be used so popularly.

Yes women are more dramatic and neurotic. Women range higher in the big 5 personality trait neuroticism. This is psychology. I am not repsonsible for any negative conotations you attach to these words. I stand by the technical definintion of these words, without needing to assign arbitary meanings to it.

See man, you are thinking that truth lies in the middle to two relative things. Maybe you have ideological relativism.

Women have more of some personality traits. Men and women are not equally emotional/neuoric/dramatic. There are sharp contrasts in the behaviour of men and women as a whole.

Divorce courts do not equally favour men and women. It's in the favour of women 99% of the time.

Men are hurt more from a divorce, his life savings halved in value and his kids taken away from him, since women win the custody battles most of the time.  How about you accept these things too?

 

I speak for 99% men atleast. I speak for everyone because, they are everyones survival values.

Please let me know if you are willing to marry a 30 year old  independent experienced women with 19 body count or a 23 year old inexperienced girl.

The choice is easy for most men. Don't lie.

 

I say I speak for men since they are survial values for most men. Its not my bias alone. No one is independent to survival biases. Hence I spoke.

 

Thanks for your repsonse. I  appreciate it. 

[Bobby_2021]

18 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Of course there are more important factors. But all things being equal, every man would prefer if their girl didn’t fuck another guy. I think it’s pretty obvious. 

Try telling your current boyfriend how you and your ex fucked each other. Of course he won’t like it.

The kind of mental gymnastics people play here and pretend that they don't know is just hilarious to me.

 

She will definitely compare you to the guys she fucked earlier. It's human nature.

And women always want a better high status man with even more resources.

So you have to be better than her ex, else she will feel bad that she had to settle for you.

And you get a shitter version of her as she may need more from you else she becomes resentful.

She will definitely think about it. 

Universally men prefer virgins. That's nature.

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

In old, traditional, patriarchal societies it's a massive deal. From their point of view it means she is "wild" and can no longer be controlled.

It's much easier to groom a virgin into being an obedient/dependent partner then someone with experience being independent and knowing how fun and awesome sex with a bunch of different people is.

It's about rigid power with Blue, then opens up to liberation and freedom with Orange, which is it's own form of power (individual vs collective).

Yes compliance is a deal breaker. But all collectivist setup requires compliance. 

Schools and universities require compliance and obediance to the rules, or else they kick you out.

So as the government.

Even to exist in this forum requires compliance and obediance to the rules that Leo has made.

Compliance or obediance is a feature in all collectivist instituition. Marriage is a collectivist instituiton and it's no exception.

If the marriage has to succeed then there has to be compliance from the side of the woman. I am openly acceptiing it. Please forgive me. 

 

Don't selectively apply compliance to marriage to frame men as it all they want is to control the women. That is painting a strawman out of it.

Compliance is required for success.

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, somegirl said:

Oof. Bold claim. I guess girl's value really do decrease in blue stage societies once she sleeps with more than one man in her entire human life. 
Oh well, whatever. If you're subscribing to this kind of thinking, and think there is nothing wrong with it, I can't really do anything about it. This kind of perspective has deep roots.
 

The thing I've noticed here though is the same mechanics playing out at different stages. Maybe she doesn't have to be a virgin but would you be sympathetic to how he felt if said he had sex with one or two women and his girlfriend had sex with 50 or 60 and that disparity made him feel uneasy and bothered? This is a more realistic situation today in stage orange. I see the same mechanics underneath at play. 

[Arcangelo]

13 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I come from a decently conservative christian family in a small town in India. My gf is from a city where most people are moderately open about their sexuality.

She frequently goes to her friends houses and she doesn't like to be reached on phone when she is out. I have long periods (4 month +) when I am away for my work. I don't doubt her. I am sure she is loyal.

I want to marry her and she wants it too. But her past keeps bugging me. 

She wants to go outside and be free with her friends and not asked about the details. I am afraid if she is putting herself in positions that may not be in best interest for the family.

 

Any advice is welcome. 

 

Will the marriage work if I marry her?

Or are the differences too stark for it to work?

Yeap

LOL!

[Lyubov]

38 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Yes women are more dramatic and neurotic. Women range higher in the big 5 personality trait neuroticism. This is psychology. I am not repsonsible for any negative conotations you attach to these words. I stand by the technical definintion of these words, without needing to assign arbitary meanings to it.

See man, you are thinking that truth lies in the middle to two relative things. Maybe you have ideological relativism.

Women have more of some personality traits. Men and women are not equally emotional/neuoric/dramatic. There are sharp contrasts in the behaviour of men and women as a whole.

This is all your own bias and negative beliefs. "Neurotic" was a word largely coined by early male psychologists to hand wave away the emotional needs of women. I've been sympathetic towards your views in this thread but you clearly have a lot of built up anger around this as well. I don't judge you for it but keep it in mind that this may be fueling some of your distrust for her and hurting your relationship with her. This stuff can be really tricky to work through but you have to do your part and address your own inner stuff if you want to have any hope of you two coming together and working on your communication, expressing your feelings and setting healthy boundaries. 

[mememe]

super surprised, i did not know that in india they put in the marriage contract the woman has to be virgin if not the marriage is nullified.

and how is this with product returns after testing? i mean for example cosmetics.

Edited January 9, 2022 by mememe

[somegirl]

14 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Maybe she doesn't have to be a virgin but would you be sympathetic to how he felt if said he had sex with one or two women and his girlfriend had sex with 50 or 60 and that disparity made him feel uneasy and bothered? This is a more realistic situation today in stage orange. I see the same mechanics underneath at play. 

I would understand an unease feeling when a guy hears his girl has been sleeping with more than 30+ people before him. That fact sometimes can indicate that a girl's mental health is not good, that girl is trying to avoid pain or fullfill her needs in an unhealthy way. 

But if a girl has slept with, for example, one or two guys before meeting her husband, I have no understanding for a guy's shock in that case. It just shows guy's insecurity.

[Lyubov]

35 minutes ago, somegirl said:

I would understand an unease feeling when a guy hears his girl has been sleeping with more than 30+ people before him. That fact sometimes can indicate that a girl's mental health is not good, that girl is trying to avoid pain or fullfill her needs in an unhealthy way. 

But if a girl has slept with, for example, one or two guys before meeting her husband, I have no understanding for a guy's shock in that case. It just shows guy's insecurity.

You don't see how the mechanics underneath are the same though? You've labeled the 30+ people as potentially/sometimes unhealthy but on what grounds? What if she did so in a healthy way? Would that negate the justification for his disease? According to stage blue 1-2 is unhealthy for their society. According to where you are at 30+ is potentially unhealthy. It may very well be. I can't confirm this. I'm not such a women. My larger point being that men are justified if they feel disease over their woman having had more partners than them. How they go about expressing it, learning from it, or finding a partner that matches them I think is what's most important. 

[Bando]

It seems your really interested in her and leaving her wouldn't be a good option for you. Try just having an honest conversation, as simple as it sounds bring up the issues your having with her and and see what she has to say, if you want any chance of making this work you have to lay out your issues regarding your relationship and your beliefs and pay attention to what she says. 

Going back and forth with other strangers on the internet about survival agenda isn't going to help you at all, do this first and then assess whether this relationship is worth pursuing any further 

[Gregory1]

@somegirl I can assure you that most guys in western society do not care about you being a virgin or not. They want a women who loves them and with whom they can feel comfortable and happy. Period.

OP is simply full of dogma from his upbringing and has 0 experience with women and relationships.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Gregory1

[puporing]

I think your main issue is communication before anything. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to enter into marriage when you feel like you can't talk about these more uncomfortable topics as they will inevitably come up, yet. I mean they can be really tough to broach in the beginning but long-term relationships are like this, uncomfortable things will inevitably come up and it is always the willingness of you and your partner to deal with them as they come up that decide the fate of the partnership. Of course I am assuming alot here... there's never a guarantee to a marriage even if someone is a virgin, or that they won't stray from you. All of this will challenge you and is part of life. Of course I'm not saying if you have a goal don't strive for it, but weigh in on the fact that nothing in life is a guarantee, and then choose your preferences from that standpoint. 

Another angle I like to look at with the whole divorce situation (man being afraid of losing half the money) is that it is created by a larger societal problem... much more complex than I can summarize here. The fact that many women still have to rely on marriage as a survival strategy in most countries/places, single mothers are still over-represented in poverty, girls are not encouraged to have careers (in stage blue even orange societies still) but encouraged to be mothers and thus have nothing to fall back on, I can go on and on ... but basically this societal collective problem is manifested as 'man losing half the money' shock to men when it happens and so relationships have become much more calculated than it should be..
 

[Michael569]

23 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

The point is that she likes to be in positions where she may not be loyal.

You're trying to cage a bird and rob it of its freedom. With a controlling mindset like this, even if you end up marrying your woman will be depressed, unhappy and will feel restrained and robbed of her freedom. 

Work on letting go of that neurotic tendency to control and restrain. If you cannot trust her, then there is no point in being together. If she wants to cheat, she will and there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent that. All that is in your control is how you approach that relationship. If you have a genuine reason to suspect she is unfaithful, then find another woman. But if not, then ask yourself "why am I so obsessed about this?"

I appreciate that there are cultural differences in India compared to here in the West but nobody likes to be suppressed and controlled. Lost virginity cannot be regained but that doesn't mean she is somehow impure or defiled. If you see it that way, perhaps you should question where those beliefs are coming from. 

 

[something_else]

15 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Universally men prefer virgins. That's nature.

Pretty much universally out of insecurity

Look at huge male celebrities or other high value men, do you think they give a single fuck about whether the 10/10 model they're sleeping with or dating has slept with 20+ other dudes?

No because they've slept with more girls

You only have to try and control your girls' sexuality if you feel like you're inadequate for her

[Lyubov]

44 minutes ago, something_else said:

Look at huge male celebrities or other high value men, do you think they give a single fuck about whether the 10/10 model they're sleeping with or dating has slept with 20+ other dudes?

No because they've slept with more girls

You are making assumptions here. No guy cares about a woman’s past when they are hooking up or are uninvolved with them. Celebrities are just doing this with lots of women and are uncommitted to all of them. It’s not uncommon for a guy to start caring about her past the more committed and the more “we” takes center stage. Seen it play out with such celebrities aplenty in ugly ways through tabloids and news so I don’t follow your logic. Most men will always have something stirred up a bit when facing their girl’s past. It has deep bodily and psychological roots in men that go beyond culture. 

[bejapuskas]

@Bobby_2021  I never said I do not see the male side of the problem, but I do not see you seeing the female side of the problem. Of course if you do not want to marry a traumatized person, that is on you, but saying somebody's value has decreased because they have been violently raped is so disgusting. They might need a therapist, I hope they get a therapist, instead of being stoned to death by their radical religious family. If you think that about a person, you really should not be with them. You should just leave for the other person's good imo. Also I don't care about body count.

[Bobby_2021]

7 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@Bobby_2021  I never said I do not see the male side of the problem, but I do not see you seeing the female side of the problem. Of course if you do not want to marry a traumatized person, that is on you, but saying somebody's value has decreased because they have been violently raped is so disgusting. They might need a therapist, I hope they get a therapist, instead of being stoned to death by their radical religious family. If you think that about a person, you really should not be with them. You should just leave for the other person's good imo. Also I don't care about body count.

1. I am not dumb enough to actually say to someone that has been raped as if they have lost their value. No that's not respectful.

But people who have been victims of violent trauma, especially at tender ages develop lots of coping mechanisms which makes them blind to the truth. It's sad, and I completely understand the stage green need to protect the poor/victim/less powerful.

But value is relative and not absolute.

I am not saying their absolute value has diminished.

But such people have to put more work to be functional like a normal human being. ( Given that the normal human being itself is a shit ton of emotional baggage running on patterns.)

Even if they meet a therapist, the therapy work won't go smooth. They need years of slow opening up to reality and releasing the specific coping they took from the traumatic experience.

I completely sympathise with it. But what I said is clearly thought out and explained.

2. Please don't make a strawman of stage blue as if they are to stone women to death for having expectations from the partner.

Women serving men is necessary for the survival of the family. Man is the leader and woman is the follower.

Women serve men.

There isn't anything wrong with it.

Some stage orange people will come at me for saying this.

Ok what about people in west complying and obeying your corporate overlords ruining your health with 40+ hour work weeks living for a friday and kids being raised by strangers that you pay for.

Isn't that toxic & unhealthy? Lol.

Obeying a leader maybe oppression but that is necessary for the survival of the collectivist institution, be it marriage of corporation.

 Stage green/orange is not so great with respect to marriages and the west is in no position to advice blue societies on marriage.

50% of the kids in USA will see their parents seperate. (Primary reason being lack of commitment)

The other 50% are probably partriachal marriages where man is in charge or highly functional/intelligent couples, where they know how to keep the marriage functioning while still maintaining decent individualistic freedom. But that's not most people.

 

In a relationship that role of the woman is to follow and man must lead and show the way. 

Just because you don't obey the norm dosen't mean it's functional.

P.S the body Count is a significant factor in the success of a marriage.

You can check for research work online and higher body counts increase the chances for divorce. 

It's not regressive to want your kids to not see their parents seperate.

I don't make the rules.

I clearly explained my views in relation to already existing and accepted science.

Cheers.?