Hardwork Mindset or Productivity Mindset?

[Fight1Up]

The following are sets of questions that have been in a ruffle in my life and the level of understanding. I have contemplated these concepts such as emptiness vs fullness (feeling so empty yet so full) and pain vs pleasure. Wanted to get these questions off my chest, maybe it will point me in a different direction. 

Main Question: 

How can I be more productive while gaining the right amount of pleasure, powerful habits, rewards, and being motivated to get stuff done in minimal time while disciplining the mind? 

Secondary Sub-Questions:

• Am I being deluded to the fact that I am grinding and hustling every minute of the day? 
• Do I need time to relax throughout the day, take breaks, or how does that work? 
• Can anyone tell me a schedule that one typically has if you can? 
• How does discipline work while gaining a healthy amount of pleasure or motivation? 
• Is there a need to have pleasure or is it pleasurable to feel pain throughout the drudgery of the process? (no pain, no gain?) 

The only reason I ask is that I am in the process of removing all bad habits, but don't seem to know how to pleasure myself again or if I need to. Powerful habits are cool such as inspiration or meditation, but the fire burns out at some point. I'm not sure if I am just overworking myself or in need to lay back. Sometimes it makes me feel better if I take a nap when I am tired then get back to the day again, but looks like a new bad habit. 

Any thoughts or resources?

[Thought Art]

 

 

[Michal__]

It's important to build work good work ethic (which is what you're doing now) before you can optimize it.

It's also important to do it in a way where you can get ~8 hours of sleep, eat healthy etc.

I personally take one day a week off to make sure I'm not overworking myself.

If you think deeply about what your priorities are you will probably become sort of workoholic at which point it's probably wise to take a step back and contemplate why you're doing it.

[caspex]

Discipline means that one has control over there mind, emotions and body. Having control over these three means you can choose what you enjoy to a large extent. It's not about balancing pleasure and productivity. It's about gaining control over these 3 aspects and then choosing to enjoy what you think you should enjoy (productive work.) 

Now you can go about developing discipline in many ways. The mental game you'll have to figure out yourself, but I can give you a few good physical habits that will transfer you into a state in which it is much easier to control your body, mind and emotions. These habits are always recommended by tons of people, and there's a reason for that.

1. Cold showers everyday: I have lived life bathing/showering everyday and also the opposite. And I can tell that just taking a cold shower and cleaning your body a little bit using soap, will do wonders when it comes to transferring your state. This should obviously be coupled with other hygiene practices such as brushing your teeth, clipping your nails, etc. 

2. Meditation: Meditation done in a lethargic state the likes of when you wake up, isn't good for integrating productivity and pleasure together and ultimately developing discipline. I suggest meditating after the cold shower in the morning. The session being primarily about what you have to do today and reminding yourself of your long term goals. Identifying your worries, regrets and guilts and what problems you have to solve.

3. Having a clean room, if not a clean house: The idea here is the same, a dirty environment promotes lethargy. Lethargy's primary function is to rid you of your control of your body, mind and emotions. 

4. Eliminating distractions: For me it was a mobile game and youtube shorts. These distractions promote lethargy the longer you procrastinate. After eliminating them, I had lots of time. Uninstalling the mobile game was a hard decision for me, as that was the primary way me and two of my other irl friends connected. Because I have now uninstalled it, the friendship will likely die out.

 

Be really careful of your Lethargy. When you are in such a state, it's important you somehow get out of it. Because in lethargy, it's very easy to take bad decisions and waste your time and ruin your whole day. It's best practice to keep out of a lethargic state as often as you can, unless it's time to sleep.

 

Hardwork Mindset is a misjudgement of the Productivity mindset, by those who do not understand the Productivity Mindset. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Swarnim

[lmfao]

It's like the David Goggins vs Automation mindset 

[Yarco]

Hard work x Productivity = Results

You can optimize either but it's far easier to be more productive than to try and work harder IMO. You cap out on hard work much faster. You can always get more efficient.

On 1/8/2022 at 7:24 PM, Fight1Up said:

Am I being deluded to the fact that I am grinding and hustling every minute of the day? 

1000% yes.

For at least one day (ideally a week), keep a spreadsheet where you track what you're doing in 1/2 hour increments. All 24 hours... record sleep, eating, travel, scrolling on your phone, everything. It should only take about 10 minutes out of your day if you take a minute or two to update it every couple hours.

Like tracking your calories for a diet it's important you don't BS yourself. Be accurate and complete, and don't just do it when you're having a super-productive and full day.

On 1/8/2022 at 7:24 PM, Fight1Up said:

Do I need time to relax throughout the day, take breaks, or how does that work? 

It's better to work in long uninterrupted chunks of time, at least 2 hours. You can take breaks in between, but I prefer to do all of my work in one solid stint with maybe just a meal break in the middle. Every time you get out of flow state it'll take at least 15 - 20 minutes to pick back up.

On 1/8/2022 at 7:24 PM, Fight1Up said:

Can anyone tell me a schedule that one typically has if you can? 

I would generally break it into 2 camps depending if you're a morning person or a night owl.

If you're most productive in the morning you'll want to wake up as early as possible, like 5 or 6 am. Start doing the most important tasks right away. Ignore email, phone calls, and all other tasks. In my experience, morning people are front-loaded in terms of energy and focus and it steeply declines as the day goes on. By noon my productivity is half what it is when I first wake up.

DON'T SWITCH TASKS. Like taking breaks, stuff like checking your email even for a second will kick you out of flow state and ruin productivity.

I'm not a night owl but I think Tim Ferriss is and has a video about it. Basically you wanna sleep till noon, then start working after dinner and do most of your work late in the night.

Either strategy helps minimize interruptions because they're both quiet times of the day when people aren't trying to contact you.

On 1/8/2022 at 7:24 PM, Fight1Up said:

How does discipline work while gaining a healthy amount of pleasure or motivation? 

For 99% of people, worrying about not getting enough pleasure or motivation is a non-issue. Most people spend like 6 hours a day watching Netflix or scrolling through social media and probably don't even realize the sheer number of hours they are wasting each day. Unless you're working like 10 hours a day (actual working, not bullshit where you stop to text people or check your email every 10 minutes) you don't need to even start thinking about balance.

Discipline with work is just like weight lifting. You just gradually add more on over time and build your tolerance. If you're writing a novel and right now you write 500 words a day, up it to 1,000 then 1,500 then 2,000. There's no reason you can't write 5,000+ words a day.

On 1/8/2022 at 7:24 PM, Fight1Up said:

 Is there a need to have pleasure or is it pleasurable to feel pain throughout the drudgery of the process? (no pain, no gain?) 

It's not normal to feel pleasure from boring or mundane drudgery tasks unless you're a masochist. You don't need to get pleasure from the process, you get pleasure from the results.

On 1/8/2022 at 7:24 PM, Fight1Up said:

Any thoughts?

When in doubt, you're probably being too soft and not working hard enough

All lives matter

Edited January 10, 2022 by Yarco

[Jacob Morres]

14 minutes ago, Yarco said:

Hard work x Productivity = Results

 

damn that's a great nutshell formula 

i definitetely dont think it's either/or so it's good that this includes nuance 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Jacob Morres

[mememe]

10 hours ago, Yarco said:

It's not normal to feel pleasure from boring or mundane drudgery tasks unless you're a masochist. You don't need to get pleasure from the process, you get pleasure from the results.

that’s not really true, the trick here is to create conscious processes with a mindful approach - even boring tasks can become fun if the process is adapted. the truth is if the process is very drudging even a result can be less pleasurable and feels just like a relief which can build up inner aversions. its probably a bit a question of what type a person is, process oriented vs goal oriented. its important to get into the task, which approach ever. maybe a combination is the best approach (with the wrong process your goal might not be achieved) its this path is the goal vs goal is the goal.

Edited January 11, 2022 by mememe

[Fight1Up]

Wow, I didn't think this thread was going to go this far! I thought I was supposed to be emailed for the replies for this thread. I was going to come back to see if I could answer this one day. 

Really great views and angles on the issue. I started to gain a little bit of knowledge over time within myself and through the book 'Atomic Habits'. Most of the answers seem to be reconceptualized and reflected upon me. 

[John Paul]

Productivity is relative to what you want i think.

Do I need time to relax throughout the day, take breaks, or how does that work?  I don't think so unless you are subconsciously chasing some sort of success and trying to rush the process. in this case you are what George Leonard calls "the obsessive", someone who can't bare the experience of your progress plateauing which he says is a unavoidable and very commonly overlooked part of the process of mastery. I would also add that if you are doing the things where you are saying to yourself you are removing all bad habits and pleasure chasing and doing blah blah blah meditation...for what?? find something that brings you joy or what is the fucking point bro? Be happy. chasing pleasure is not happy but neither is denying life being lived. try learning an art form or making new friends/lovers.

Can anyone tell me a schedule that one typically has if you can? Wake up and move, exercise and then practice yoga breathing, stretches, and meditation. Wash up your body and clean something if there's something to be cleaned. Dress up and eat breakfast. After this It would depend on what your life purpose is. Maybe since you are so super serious you should buy the life purpose course. It is EPIC. the values portion of the course has changed me, i will never be the same, i didn't even properly finish the course (I will do the whole thing again soon) and I am super motivated.

How does discipline work while gaining a healthy amount of pleasure or motivation? Don't chase pleasure. Change your relationship to "pleasure" or "excitement" consider that you are telling yourself a story underneath your conscious thoughts that these things are good. Maybe they are not good. maybe they are not bad either. Maybe you should decide what it is that you value. Let's say joy or connection or self-expression or health or focus itself and focus on that instead. I don't know if this is an answer to this question or not

Is there a need to have pleasure or is it pleasurable to feel pain throughout the drudgery of the process? (no pain, no gain?)  I don't know bro, I'm too busy backsliding to tell you. I know that if you push too hard and fast you might start to slip, i know i fucking do. One little step at a time. if you are really going to become a master that means you have years.....your rushing itself is a newbie move i think...

CREATE A VISION FOR YOUR LIFE. IT'S PROBABLY NOT YOU SITTING ON A FUCKING CUSHION. 

[Wilhelm44]

Neither. Focus on your true authentic alignment first, see where that takes you . . .