"Spirituality" fell away spontaneously

[Sugarcoat]

16 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

The point is to arrive at what all human beings desire for: Absolute fulfillment.

So you’re absolutely sure that meditation gets to that?

 

9 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

 

@Sugarcoat you dropped meditation and nothing changed really. You're still looking for ultimate fullfilment like everybody else. And you're not gonna find it while playing video games or eating potato chips. You will only find the ultimate fullfilment if you trancend the mind. And without meditation that is impossible.

 

Of course I still seek. I sought even more in the past when I meditated. the meditation didn’t remove any desires really.

How do you know meditation transcends the mind and that it’s impossible without it? Do all people who have “transcended the mind “ meditated? Sounds like a belief to me.

I don’t seek the idea of transcending the mind, so even if meditation does that, I don’t mind.

I seek other things . Why? Some part of me thinks I’ll be happy when I have them. Why do I think that? Conditioning perhaps, I don’t know.

what is there to do about it really. 
 

for like a year I tried to “get rid of attachments” through meditation, through playing around with my mind to manipulate my perspective, contemplation,  to practicing acceptance, to removing the things I’m “attached to” with the hope that they would accelerate some process of letting go. 
 

the desires still remained. Now they’re less intense but they still remain so now I just go all in on them, what else is there to do honestly? I don’t try to remove seeking, that’s just another layer of seeking

i don’t play video games but I do eat potato chips sometimes lol. That’s not really seeking but more a bodily desire It’s not like I expect it to fulfill me
 

 

 

[Salvijus]

@Sugarcoat 

14 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I don’t seek the idea of transcending the mind, so even if meditation does that, I don’t mind.

Nobody cares about trancending the mind. But everybody cares about absolute fulfillment without exception. All the things humans do, chase money, women, sex, status, fame, friends, relationships, entertainment,  pleasures etc. etc. All of it is to achieve perfect fullfilment. And none of it worked for anybody ever. So if you're wise you don't follow a path that never worked for anybody ever. You chose a path that worked for somebody, path that Jesus discovered, or a path that buddha discovered, or a path that some other sage master discovered etc. Then you're wise. 

14 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

for like a year I tried to “get rid of attachments” through meditation, through playing around with my mind to manipulate my perspective, contemplation,  to practicing acceptance, to removing the things I’m “attached to” with the hope that they would accelerate some process of letting go. the desires still remained

You just underrestimated what you're dealing with and what it takes to become free. The proper choice was not to quit but to become more serious about your own salvation. 

And if I were to give a small personal advice, find a higher quality spiritual material to study from or a high quality spiritual practice to do. It will give you 10x more results and those results will then motivate you and inspire you to go forward towards better and better life. When people don't get results from meditation my usual thought is that they're probably doing some low quality nonsense. ? 

 

"So you’re absolutely sure that meditation gets to that?"

Of course. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Salvijus

[Consilience]

5 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Sugarcoat 

Nobody cares about trancending the mind. But everybody cares about absolute fulfillment without exception. All the things humans do, chase money, women, sex, status, fame, friends, relationships, entertainment,  pleasures etc. etc. All of it is to achieve perfect fullfilment. And none of it worked for anybody ever. So if you're wise you don't follow a path that never worked for anybody ever. You chose a path that worked for somebody, path that Jesus discovered, or a path that buddha discovered, or a path that some other sage master discovered etc. Then you're wise. 

You just underrestimated what you're dealing with and what it takes to become free. The proper choice was not to quit but to become more serious about your own salvation. 

And if I were to give a small personal advice, find a higher quality spiritual material to study from or a high quality spiritual practice to do. It will give you 10x more results and those results will then motivate you and inspire you to go forward towards better and better life. When people don't get results from meditation my usual thought is that they're probably doing some low quality nonsense. ? 

 

"So you’re absolutely sure that meditation gets to that?"

Of course. 

This. So much this. 

6 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

When people don't get results from meditation my usual thought is that they're probably doing some low quality nonsense. ?

I would add that in addition to not using an effective strategy, as you seem to indicate with "low quality nonsense, these people are also vastly underestimating how much meditation is needed to see serious results, are never going on retreats, are basically thinking 30 - 60 minutes per day will get them somewhere. And while it will to some extent, the profound, life shattering results meditation is capable of providing typically need something along the lines of 2+ hours per day plus frequent retreat training. If one is serious about liberation, 2+ hours per day is very easy to find time for. Of course, most people are terrified of actually getting their hands dirty and doing the work and would prefer spiritually bypassing/spiritually bullshitting themselves, hence the explosion in popularity of the Neo Advaita like messaging. 

[mememe]

@Sugarcoat did you ever try dependent arising meditation?

i don’t know what you seek, it’s easy to get lost while seeking. i‘m not sure if non attachment meditation has any meaning  other than to get lost. (as if there was no suffering in that).

sometimes i think to tell people completely detached from their reality: „go meditate!“ is the same as to tell people „go think!“ completely detached to „about what?“ or „what technique?“ for it. you will time over time meet people who got the wrong idea about what they are doing and what’s a good way. because somehow someway it’s def also working in a way.

non attachment vs detachment meditation

its still different than dependent arising meditation.

in my oppinion everytime he says „it’s drying you up“ he‘s talking about how that’s too much how this already is detachment. water is  in many alchemic systems an equivalent to love or source energy.

Edited February 8, 2022 by mememe

[Sugarcoat]

3 hours ago, Salvijus said:

@Sugarcoat 

Nobody cares about trancending the mind. But everybody cares about absolute fulfillment without exception. All the things humans do, chase money, women, sex, status, fame, friends, relationships, entertainment,  pleasures etc. etc. All of it is to achieve perfect fullfilment. And none of it worked for anybody ever. So if you're wise you don't follow a path that never worked for anybody ever. You chose a path that worked for somebody, path that Jesus discovered, or a path that buddha discovered, or a path that some other sage master discovered etc. Then you're wise. 

You just underrestimated what you're dealing with and what it takes to become free. The proper choice was not to quit but to become more serious about your own salvation. 

And if I were to give a small personal advice, find a higher quality spiritual material to study from or a high quality spiritual practice to do. It will give you 10x more results and those results will then motivate you and inspire you to go forward towards better and better life. When people don't get results from meditation my usual thought is that they're probably doing some low quality nonsense. ? 

 

"So you’re absolutely sure that meditation gets to that?"

Of course. 

Yea I don’t have much to say, I just don’t feel like doing any spiritual practice it’s not so complaicated haha

[Salvijus]

56 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I just don’t feel like doing any spiritual practice it’s not so complaicated haha

That's fine, at least you're honest now. Instead of pretending to be on the "next level". 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Salvijus

[WelcometoReality]

3 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Yea I don’t have much to say, I just don’t feel like doing any spiritual practice it’s not so complaicated haha

That's beautiful. Maybe meditation is happening effortlessly whatever you are doing?

 

 

[Sugarcoat]

21 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

That's beautiful. Maybe meditation is happening effortlessly whatever you are doing?

 

 

In contrast to before, yes in a sense. 
even my 3 hour meditations didn’t get me to my normal “state” now.

Becoming noticeable maybe a year ago, I keep having these releases of tension. And that tension is in my entire reality, it’s not emotional or about the amount of thoughts in my head

I literally feel less separate than before.

and I’m not afraid to conceptualize it because it doesn’t really change anything about it.

I can sit and think about some narrative in my mind and then some thought resonates and the narrative can sort of dissolve and suddenly reality is more “zoomed in” and this subtle release of tension, one time it was slightly visual like something dissolved in my visual field.

it’s fun to conceptualize honestly.

I can’t go back to my previous beliefs about spiritual stuff even if I tried. I didn’t have to argue against them, they stopped making sense.
 

It’s like thoughts say less and less than they used to, they have less pull to them.

I like talking about this becuase i never do, what am I gonna say? “Hey guys I feel my sense of separation is decreasing”

it doesnt  bother me that I think people wouldn’t care, the desire to identify as a person going through something profound is not strong anymore yet there is still some desire to express this. I guess what that is , is the desire for a sense of self to arise to be able to identify as a person who is going through something special, the sense of self always makes conclusions about what’s going on and wants to identify with it. I don’t fight against that anymore. 

 

 

[Sugarcoat]

@WelcometoReality btw hello from Sweden! Stockholm 

[WelcometoReality]

2 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

@WelcometoReality btw hello from Sweden! Stockholm 

Ah. Hello from Lidköping. ?