Should people stop using the term "will"?

[RMQualtrough]

Desire or thought are appearances, the will you have to flap your arms and fly around is itself imagined, appearing as thought, desire, feeling, and so on.

Are you really controlling where these desires and thoughts appear from?

[Tim R]

Should I stop using the word "I"? Or "you"?

[RMQualtrough]

@Tim R The terminology isn't right is it? Isn't any desire just appearance, which you did not pick (AKA where was the desire before you felt it)? And then what's happening isn't "willed", I don't know what the term would be but the desire itself is just appearing.

[RedLine]

21 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

@Tim R The terminology isn't right is it? Isn't any desire just appearance, which you did not pick (AKA where was the desire before you felt it)? And then what's happening isn't "willed", I don't know what the term would be but the desire itself is just appearing.

Everything is appearing. So according to your logic we should not use any concept at all.

[Tim R]

@RMQualtrough Yes, you're right of course. Individual free will is illusory. 

But so is everything else that we talk about. Now what? See the problem? Should we stop talking altogether?

 

[RMQualtrough]

@Tim R I'm referring to even absolute will. If absolute will means a thought or desire must arise to then act upon to will into existence, then the thought or desire is an appearance itself. The world "will" seems intimately tied into the idea of some form of want. If it is happening without any want, then what is the word for that?

It would more resemble necessity than will if something happens without first the appearance of a desire for said thing to happen.

[BlueOak]

Will represents strength of individual mind or collective identity.
Strength is something that has been demonized for its connections to solidarity, connections and community.

I would like it to be used more. Force of will. Personal will. These are almost tolerated in the 80's/90's but somewhat mocked in the modern day. The will of society dare I say the 'will of the people'. Those last 4 words have been demonized to trigger people most of all. If anyone reading had any kind of reaction to it stated as an abstract concept well that hints at a preprogrammed response.

Edited January 7, 2022 by BlueOak

[Mason Riggle]

What will, will.  What won't, won't. 

It's a great word.  It's just that people don't have 'a will' or 'free will'.. those things don't makes sense.. a person has 'what he or she WILL do'.. 

Is a tree 'willing' it's branches into existence? Not really.. a tree WILL grow branches when conditions are such that that's what WILL happen. 

'The will of the people' is just 'what the people will do'. 

 

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Mason Riggle said:

What will, will.  What won't, won't. 

It's a great word.  It's just that people don't have 'a will' or 'free will'.. those things don't makes sense.. a person has 'what he or she WILL do'.. 

Is a tree 'willing' it's branches into existence? Not really.. a tree WILL grow branches when conditions are such that that's what WILL happen. 

'The will of the people' is just 'what the people will do'.

Oh so it doesn't mean "choice" in this context?

[Mason Riggle]

@RMQualtrough I'm not sure it ever means choice. 

 

 

[gettoefl]

first know that god does have a plan ... this takes time to realize (or in fact i should say have revealed since you can't do it) ... once you get this you either commit to getting in line or running the show regardless

namely alignment or self rule

up to you, and god's has always been good with either

[Mason Riggle]

@gettoefl God's plan is suspiciously similar to that of someone with no plan.  

 

[Carl-Richard]

Why speak?

[Mason Riggle]

@Carl-Richard for the same reason trees flower.  Nobody asks a tree why it flowers just because it does. 

 

[gettoefl]

18 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@gettoefl God's plan is suspiciously similar to that of someone with no plan.  

 

yea but things do mysteriously magically magnificently get better over time, even evolution proclaims god's smarts

[Mason Riggle]

@gettoefl 'better' is an unusual word choice.. things change over time, I'll give you that. 

 

[gettoefl]

1 minute ago, Mason Riggle said:

@gettoefl 'better' is an unusual word choice.. things change over time, I'll give you that. 

 

no better time to be alive, consciousness ever on the advance seems unmistakable to be

[Mason Riggle]

@gettoefl no better time than when? 1 minute ago?

 

[gettoefl]

2 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@gettoefl no better time than when? 1 minute ago?

 

i have evolved even since this conversation began, remarkable really

[Mason Riggle]

@gettoefl yes.. I have agreed to that.. evolution means 'change over time'.