can the mind heal the body?

[Whatever]

9 minutes ago, tuku747 said:

No, you're completely ignoring the enormous role the mind plays in how the body handles disease. If a mind is stressed and unfocused, filled with random thoughts about work or bills, how can it effectively regulate immune function?

Im not ignoring that. Nor Im not denying that. Good mental health prevents illness. But to claim that mind is the cause and heal of all illness is based on nothing but wishfull thinkin at this point.

[tuku747]

Okay, then back to "nondual jargon".

 

Have you ever seen your own body without using a mind to observe it? Have you ever been sick without a mind to realize you were sick? Have you ever heard of COVID-19 without having simultaneously formed a concept of it in your mind? 

 

None of these things appear without mind/consciousness present. Ever.

Edited January 9, 2022 by tuku747

[Whatever]

1 hour ago, tuku747 said:

Okay, then back to "nondual jargon".

 

Have you ever seen your own body without using a mind to observe it? Have you ever been sick without a mind to realize you were sick? Have you ever heard of COVID-19 without having simultaneously formed a concept of it in your mind? 

 

None of these things appear without mind/consciousness present. Ever.

1 hour ago, tuku747 said:

Okay, then back to "nondual jargon".

 

Have you ever seen your own body without using a mind to observe it? Have you ever been sick without a mind to realize you were sick? Have you ever heard of COVID-19 without having simultaneously formed a concept of it in your mind? 

 

None of these things appear without mind/consciousness present. Ever.

1 hour ago, tuku747 said:

 

Ok, therefore what? 

[tuku747]

13 minutes ago, Whatever said:

Ok, therefore what? 

On 1/7/2022 at 3:22 AM, vizual said:

The source of all chronic disease is in the mind. If you have a healthy mind, your immune system can fight off basically anything. If you have an unhealthy/unstable/unbalanced mind, not only are you more susceptible from catching external diseases, you are also way more likely to develop internal diseases like diabetes, heart disease and cancer.

The body is in the mind. All disease is in the mind as well. I say this not to discount these things, but to empower you. Imagine yourself healthier. You'll feel better immediately.

Edited January 9, 2022 by tuku747

[Whatever]

10 minutes ago, tuku747 said:

The body is in the mind. All disease is in the mind as well. I say this not to discount these things, but to empower you. Imagine yourself healthier. You'll feel better immediately.

Yea I get that. Still dont think that people in 3rd world countries  with horrible illnessess for example are best helped by saying that they should simply imagine themselves better. To tell that hungry child with empty stomach that everything yoi looking for is inside you. Especially with zero evidence on these conditions to really heal, feeling better is different from healing a condition. 

 

It seems like this spiritual elitism that I see here a lot. People doing drugs in comfort of their homes now feeling like they have tackled an issue of suffering and human condition in general, and it was simply this scapegoat "ego" that is to ne banished to habw catthartic experience. Then is all good. Think its obivious thede drug highs as smth to them but then they get perverted after so much that is debatable if its worth talking about them at all or to call what you brought back insights 

[tuku747]

56 minutes ago, Whatever said:

Yea I get that. Still dont think that people in 3rd world countries  with horrible illnessess for example are best helped by saying that they should simply imagine themselves better. To tell that hungry child with empty stomach that everything yoi looking for is inside you. Especially with zero evidence on these conditions to really heal, feeling better is different from healing a condition. 

 

It seems like this spiritual elitism that I see here a lot. People doing drugs in comfort of their homes now feeling like they have tackled an issue of suffering and human condition in general, and it was simply this scapegoat "ego" that is to ne banished to habw catthartic experience. Then is all good. Think its obivious thede drug highs as smth to them but then they get perverted after so much that is debatable if its worth talking about them at all or to call what you brought back insights 

I'm not talking to a starving child. I'm talking to you, someone who has enough leisure time to post on a forum. If your major concern is survival and your next meal, of course you're not going to be in a favorable position to realize that the world is mind. In fact our biology explicitly selected out such traits in favor of a survival mindset. 

But what happens when survival is not a concern? Well, now that we are well fed, there's an opportunity for contemplation, meditation, recreation. Now do you NEED to be well fed to be at peace and heal? No, but it helps. A lot.

 

Feeling better is what you feel once a condition has healed, but also as you are healing you will progressively feel better. Let's say you're in pain with a headache. The pain signals coming in from the body contain information. Within this information contains the cure to the source of the pain.

The issue is we often try to ignore or cover up this pain with distractions or rumination, so healing is slowed down. The key is to mindfully breathe and allow yourself to fully feel the pain until you've received the whole message the body is sending. Then once you've understood the wound/illness sufficiently by bringing it to attention, accepting the sensation as it is appearing, you will begin to feel the pain heal in real-time. You couldn't do this unless you had some perception of pain. This is why trying to ignore pain or complaining about it only makes it worse.

Edited January 9, 2022 by tuku747

[Whatever]

52 minutes ago, tuku747 said:

I'm not talking to a starving child. I'm talking to you, someone who has enough leisure time to post on a forum. If your major concern is survival and your next meal, of course you're not going to be in a favorable position to realize that the world is mind. In fact our biology explicitly selected out such traits in favor of a survival mindset. 

But what happens when survival is not a concern? Well, now that we are well fed, there's an opportunity for contemplation, meditation, recreation. Now do you NEED to be well fed to be at peace and heal? No, but it helps. A lot.

 

Feeling better is what you feel once a condition has healed, but also as you are healing you will progressively feel better. Let's say you're in pain with a headache. The pain signals coming in from the body contain information. Within this information contains the cure to the source of the pain.

The issue is we often try to ignore or cover up this pain with distractions or rumination, so healing is slowed down. The key is to mindfully breathe and allow yourself to fully feel the pain until you've received the whole message the body is sending. Then once you've understood the wound/illness sufficiently by bringing it to attention, accepting the sensation as it is appearing, you will begin to feel the pain heal in real-time. You couldn't do this unless you had some perception of pain. This is why trying to ignore pain or complaining about it only makes it worse.

That sounds like slowly relating to pain differently. Not cure for cancer. Maybe I misunderstood and nobody claimed that definately being a thing.

 

Other than that, I still disagree with your elitistic view on spirituality. That spirituality comes hierachically after life of survival has turned to life of luxury. If I had to guess you read somewhere about Maslows hierarchy of needs and took it on faith. First survival needs, then social, then x and then spirituality (which apparently just is me and my states of bliss and enlightenment. Others are just illusion? Not saying you think that but generally seems to be the view in this forum).

 

There is no empiric studies made on maslows pyramid scheme tho. 

 

People with no security in life make art.

People with no job or income help others.

Peoole get married after quitting treatment for their incurable illness.

 

These people actually reflect pinnacle of spirituality in my view way more than someone who thinks he is on top of the world because God hooked him up with life that is dope enought for him to finally have some time to try to solve the puzzle God made to hide himself.

[Federico del pueblo]

On 7.1.2022 at 9:29 AM, MovForward said:

can consciousness heal the body or diseases that doctors or scientists haven't figured out how to cure yet?

Supposedly this is possible.

There are theories derived from the findings of the fields of epigenetics and psychoneuroimmunology that claim that one can heal the body with the mind and that's also the mind that contributes a lot to the development of a chronic illness.

In books related to this topic they also then mesh other stuff like consciousness and "the unified field" and energy and frequencies etc. on top of these other healing mechanisms on the aforementioned claims.

Quote

or what are some books that that talk about this?

Books are:

- You are the placebo by Dr. Joe Dispensa

- the biology of belief by Dr. Bruce Lipton

- the Genie in your genes by Dawson Church

I think this is also something that Deepak Chopra talks about a lot.

[tuku747]

5 hours ago, Whatever said:

That sounds like slowly relating to pain differently. Not cure for cancer. Maybe I misunderstood and nobody claimed that definately being a thing.

Slowly changing one's relationship with pain so that it is constructive to your wellbeing is a benefit to doing spiritual work. Will it cure cancer? Probably not, but I guarantee becoming more mindful of your body will greatly reduce your risk of developing cancer. The body has natural mechanisms for preventing cancer. The idea is you get out of your body's way and let it do the rest, it is after all a billion year old survival machine.

Quote

Other than that, I still disagree with your elitistic view on spirituality. That spirituality comes hierachically after life of survival has turned to life of luxury. If I had to guess you read somewhere about Maslows hierarchy of needs and took it on faith. First survival needs, then social, then x and then spirituality (which apparently just is me and my states of bliss and enlightenment. Others are just illusion? Not saying you think that but generally seems to be the view in this forum).

Not sure why you think this is elitism. I'm not gatekeeping anyone from doing their own spiritual work. I'm simply offering an explanation why someone might feel they have no time for airy-fairy things like meditation and enlightenment when they feel that time would be better spent keeping bread on the table. The benefits of sitting in meditation (literally doing nothing) are not nearly as obvious as having food and a roof over your head.

You and I were the very same Universe before we were born, and yet we still are! Only we've mistaken ourselves as separate beings so we can maintain our individual human form. This was a survival adaptation we selected for over billions of years of biological and cosmological evolution.

If I were to put a core insight into words:

Reality is singular. There is one Reality, and you are Reality. Because I am Reality too, that means we are no different, and all apparent differences are merely a result of perspective.

Now of course this can be understood intellectually to a certain degree. After all, Uni-verse just means one, unity. But be careful: This understanding should serve as merely guidepost, a pointer to a truth that is beyond understanding, beyond words, beyond concepts, because Reality is more than concepts. It is what is, unbounded by human logic, reason, or anything else for that matter.

What could limit existence? If it had a limit, that limit would have to exist, which means it would be part of existence. Which means... Reality is unbounded by anything but itself. It is potentially infinite.

Reality is an absolute, something that can't be accurately described in terms other than itself. Doesn't stop us from trying, of course.

Quote

There is no empiric studies made on maslows pyramid scheme tho. 

People with no security in life make art.

People with no job or income help others.

Peoole get married after quitting treatment for their incurable illness.

These people actually reflect pinnacle of spirituality in my view way more than someone who thinks he is on top of the world because God hooked him up with life that is dope enought for him to finally have some time to try to solve the puzzle God made to hide himself.

I'm not exactly a big proponent of Maslow's work. After all, you could be fairly wealthy and still be stuck in a survival-oriented mindset. Many people in the first world are! It's hardwired into our biology, just like every other animal. However, something more fundamental rests at our core. Are we driven more by fear of death, or by love of life?

Edited January 10, 2022 by tuku747

[Whatever]

Changing ones relationship to pain or generally seeing oneself and others in mercifull eyes is important.

 

Meditation is good but not the end. How I act out and share any goodness coming from God is whats important to me.

 

Dont think seperation between you and me is a mistake nor that its the issue. Lack of connection is.

God to me is essentially a love relationship that changes people and world from "it" to "you". That love creates connection and inclusiveness, doesnt reguire to scapegoat my selfhood or yours, actually streghtens them for I become me in relation to you. So to me more I progress in path, the realer life gets, not more illusory. This is as real as it gets, pains, difficulties and sufferings and all. And the challenge isnt to sit meditating and having insights and wordplays but being humbled enought to be a human who is deeply dependent from love and care from others since day one. That is seeing God's smallness and non violence. How he knocks on the door of my heart just as far as I banish Him. Never stops knocking tho. Its redicilous how easyly that knocking is ignored and God's call to serve his will is overruled by selfish desire when out of meditation cushion.