Situation in Kazakhstan

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, K Ghoul said:

Raised and born in Kazakhstan, and would like to comment on the “Russian-led” sentiments - president Tokayev gave speech today where he informed that it’s him who asked Russia, as well as Armenia, Belarus, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan for help, and expressed gratitude to ALL of them for their prompt response, sorry to pea on your “Russia quickly jumped in to help because is probably already plotting how to invade Kazakhstan” party, for those who were quick to think that.

Such assistance was requested because Tokayev believes it was a terrorist attack as 20 000 people came out to protest and many were armed, which led him to believe the attacks was planned. Kazakhstan made it clear that they deemed this situation as a terrorist act, and that’s why asked for help, and this should address statements like “Russia should mind their own business etc” as at the moment this is not considered to be a regular civil unrest and no, Russian was not passing by, saw the commotion and decided to jump in - it’s simply not what happened.

 

The Internet was shut down across the country, and apparently still is, at least in the region where my hometown is. Phone lines too, probably, as I haven’t been able to get in touch with my mom for 3 days now. 
 

President’s speech, in Russian, starts at 27:00

https://youtu.be/eVzN7IuqnJA

Are you a Kazakh with Russian or Kazakh ethnicity?

I know that Kazakhs and Russians are the two most dominant ethnic groups there, and about 20% in Kazakhstan have Russian ethnic origins 

Not trying to ish too much on Russia btw.

Also stay safe

[Danioover9000]

@K Ghoul

8 minutes ago, K Ghoul said:

Raised and born in Kazakhstan, and would like to comment on the “Russian-led” sentiments - president Tokayev gave speech today where he informed that it’s him who asked Russia, as well as Armenia, Belarus, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan for help, and expressed gratitude to ALL of them for their prompt response, sorry to pea on your “Russia quickly jumped in to help because is probably already plotting how to invade Kazakhstan” party, for those who were quick to think that.

Such assistance was requested because Tokayev believes it was a terrorist attack as 20 000 people came out to protest and many were armed, which led him to believe the attacks was planned. Kazakhstan made it clear that they deemed this situation as a terrorist act, and that’s why asked for help, and this should address statements like “Russia should mind their own business etc” as at the moment this is not considered to be a regular civil unrest and no, Russian was not passing by, saw the commotion and decided to jump in - it’s simply not what happened.

 

The Internet was shut down across the country, and apparently still is, at least in the region where my hometown is. Phone lines too, probably, as I haven’t been able to get in touch with my mom for 3 days now. 
 

President’s speech, in Russian, starts at 27:00

https://youtu.be/eVzN7IuqnJA

   Thanks for sharing what's happening in Kazakhstan from the inside. It gives more info to the unfolding situation.

[PurpleTree]

35 minutes ago, Khr said:

 And another thing that the corrupt government did, is that they would hire people on purpose, to cause disturbance pretending to be on the protestor’s side - we even had a special name for them. They have all the nice tricks like that  

I've heard that also happened/happens in the US for example during the "Occupy Wallstreet" movement, not sure if it's true but makes sense to me. Probably happens in many places.

35 minutes ago, Khr said:

@Opo do you have nothing better to do with your time than to ask such stupid questions? 

The ignore button is a beautiful thing in some cases  

22 minutes ago, K Ghoul said:

Neither. Doesn’t seem it matters if I confirm that I am Russian as it seems like someone in this thread already decided for themselves that I am biased and “Pro-Russian too”.

Below is a full speech. I did some translation for the part where he was thanking the other nations as I want to bring focus to what he said exactly specifically about his request for help from other nations.

Starts at 4:35

“As you know, following the basic provisions of ODKB law, Kazakhstan asked the heads of the participating governments to bring peacekeeping forces in order to assist with establishing order in accordance with the constitution. Said peacekeeping forces have arrived to our country for a short period of time to perform the function of cover and support. Would like to express sincere gratitude to prime minister of Armenia, who is the chairman of ODKB, as well as to the presidents of Belarus, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan. A special thanks goes out to Russia’s president V. Putin. He is very proficient, and most importantly, he reacted to my request in the spirit of warm comradeship. I am also expressing my gratitude to the chairman of People’s Republic of China, to the presidents of Tajikistan, Turkey, leaders of UN and other international organizations for their words of support. “ -Tokayev.

You seem to fully support the president. So do you think the protestors don't have any right to stand up to the government and demand change, or do you think they have a right but not with violence? I don't think i buy the speech personally "warm comradeship"? eh ok  

Also are you from the north of Kazakhstan? you don't have to answer that if you don't want

Edited January 8, 2022 by PurpleTree

[PurpleTree]

14 minutes ago, K Ghoul said:

 

@PurpleTree I literally have not expressed a single one of my personal opinions regarding this matter, how did you conclude that I seem to fully support the president is beyond me. Maybe I do maybe I don’t - the fact that you have come to some conclusions when all I did was to give report of what the president of Kazakhstan said in the news says it all…

well yea because you just posted his speech without adding any commentary to it

the president calls them terrorists and you don't say anything about so i'll assume you agree with him

2 hours ago, K Ghoul said:

Raised and born in Kazakhstan, and would like to comment on the “Russian-led” sentiments - president Tokayev gave speech today where he informed that it’s him who asked Russia, as well as Armenia, Belarus, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan for help, and expressed gratitude to ALL of them for their prompt response, sorry to pea on your “Russia quickly jumped in to help because is probably already plotting how to invade Kazakhstan” party, for those who were quick to think that.

Such assistance was requested because Tokayev believes it was a terrorist attack as 20 000 people came out to protest and many were armed, which led him to believe the attacks was planned. Kazakhstan made it clear that they deemed this situation as a terrorist act, and that’s why asked for help, and this should address statements like “Russia should mind their own business etc” as at the moment this is not considered to be a regular civil unrest and no, Russian was not passing by, saw the commotion and decided to jump in - it’s simply not what happened.

well whatever stay safe you and your fam 

and everybody else ?

[Karmadhi]

@K Ghoul Do most people there dislike or like their government? Curious

[Opo]

2 hours ago, Khr said:

do you have nothing better to do with your time than to ask such stupid questions? 

Why is it stupid? 

[Opo]

@K Ghoul Did you manage to get in contact with your family? 

I just saw a couple of videos from there so internet might be back on. 

 

[Danioover9000]

   @Leo Gura , @Roy and @Carl-Richard , are you following what's going on in this thread? Isn't this a good example of derailing, name calling and dogmatism? I think you might want to remind everyone here involved that this is a personal development forum, and not some other forum where freedom of speech and individual rights applies. This forum, ya all are not free in some freedom of speech zone where you fully start demonizing the other. If you truly are too triggered, maybe go out into the world you are in and maybe consider taking some action out there, rather than complaining and infecting everyone here with your victim mindset. 

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   @Leo Gura , @Roy and @Carl-Richard , are you following what's going on in this thread? Isn't this a good example of derailing, name calling and dogmatism? I think you might want to remind everyone here involved that this is a personal development forum, and not some other forum where freedom of speech and individual rights applies. This forum, ya all are not free in some freedom of speech zone where you fully start demonizing the other. If you truly are too triggered, maybe go out into the world you are in and maybe consider taking some action out there, rather than complaining and infecting everyone here with your victim mindset. 

why are you always calling the mods to this thread?

it's fine, nobody really got verbally attacked.

of course some people are emotional in such life and death situations.

[Fleetinglife]

54 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

If you truly are too triggered maybe go out into the world you are in and maybe consider taking some action out there, rather than complaining and infecting everyone here with your victim mindset. 

How about you take some action and join an org, group, movement, or action calling into the independent investigation of actions of ''Tony Blair and Associates'' consultancy groups receiving millions of pounds (pardon dollars) from the former Kazakh autocratic president and his family that fled the country now into Dubai and joined with the former Afghan US puppet president, into the PR for covering the state crackdown and police brutality and massacres of Kazakh oil workers in the Zhaonzen massacre, the same workers that were now first on the firing lines to protest a sudden increase in the spike of not just gas prices but also other crucial living commodities prices because the government lift price control mechanism and state subsidies for domestic gas prices for regular Kazakh citizens and workers in order to leave it to the prices determined by the international market and because of the easing of electronic bidding reasons conducted mostly by Western oil companies who have large stakes and shares in the Kazakh state oil industries and have a large private oil industry there

or for the Tory MPs to disclose from who have they received funds for book deals and PR firms writing favorably on the previous and ousted Kazakh autocratic government and president and what did they do with that money they received and they then stashed on their tax havens on the British Virgin Islands and later spent on what?

or call on them to investigate and pressure by joining or donating to some group or org. pressuring the UK government into the investigation of the origin of the vast sum of money and funds of former president Nazarbayev's and families real estate empire worth 80 million pounds sitting in the UK

I think you should stake into consideration what actions, education, and information you yourself can take but are not doing so and not going to immediately blame and moral grandstand to others who are suffering through this now for infecting everyone with their victim mindset in this thread when their own government's officials sources of economic power and wealth were propped up and protected by your own government officials

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/06/how-tony-blair-advised-former-kazakh-ruler-after-2011-uprising

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[Carl-Richard]

It's fine to be passionate about these issues, but let's keep it civil.

[Fleetinglife]

For anyone interested in what led up to this Kazakhstan situation and international crisis, I recommend reading up on this. It is a Kazakh socialist's activists in Kazakhstan's perspective though but I found it had a lot of nuances to it and an interesting perspective on the causes and origins of this current situation:

https://lefteast.org/a-color-revolution-or-a-working-class-uprising-an-interview-with-aynur-kurmanov-on-the-protests-in-kazakhstan/?fbclid=IwAR0JF6_S9WtBEqWP4ZW2eW68TPEBtFnbJpRpNYIxEJW69Umdq5uuO8ZWYwI

''The workers of Zhanaozen were the first to rise.  An increase in the gas price served only as a trigger for the popular protests. After all, the mountain of social problems has been accumulating for years. Last fall, Kazakhstan was hit by a wave of inflation. It should be taken into account that products are imported to the Mangistau region and they have always been 2-3 times more expensive there. But on a wave of rising prices at the end of 2021, the cost of food rose even more, and substantially. We must also take into account that the West of the country is a region of solid unemployment. In the course of neoliberal reforms and privatization, most of the businesses there were shut down. The only sector that still works here are the oil producers. But for the most part, they are owned by foreign capital. Up to 70 percent of Kazakhstan oil are exported to western markets, most of the profits also go to foreign owners. 

There is practically no investment in the development of the region: it is an area of total poverty and poverty. And last year these enterprises began to undergo large-scale optimization. Jobs were cut, workers began to lose their salaries, bonuses, many enterprises have turned into just service companies. When in the Atyrau region the company Tengiz Oil fired 40 thousand workers at once, it became a real shock for the whole of Western Kazakhstan. The state did nothing to prevent such mass layoffs.  And it should be understood, that one oil worker feeds 5-10 family members. The dismissal of a worker automatically condemns the whole family to starvation. There are no jobs here except for the oil sector and sectors that service its needs.

Kazakhstan has actually built a raw-material model of capitalism. The population has accumulated a lot of social problems, there is a huge social stratification. The “middle class” is ruined, the real sector is destroyed. The uneven distribution of the national product has a considerable corruption component. Neoliberal reforms have all but eliminated the social safety net. And most likely, the owners of transnational corporations calculated – 5 million people are needed for servicing the “pipe”; the whole 18+ million Kazakh population is too much. And that’s why this revolt is anti-colonial in many ways. The causes of the current protests are rooted in the workings of capitalism: the price of liquefied gas really rose on electronic trades. There was a conspiracy of monopolists who benefited from exporting gas abroad, creating a shortage of it and an increase in gas prices on the domestic market. So they themselves provoked the riots. However, it should be noted that the current social explosion is directed against the whole policy of capitalist reforms that have been carried out over the last 30 years and their destructive results.

This is not a Maidan, although many political analysts are trying to present it this way. Where did such amazing self-organization come from? This is the experience and tradition of the workers. Strikes have been shaking the Mangistau region since 2008, and the strike movement began back in the 2000s. Even without any input from the Communist Party or other leftist groups, there were constant demands to nationalize the oil companies. The workers simply saw with their own eyes what privatization and foreign capitalist takeover were leading to. In the course of these earlier demonstrations, they gained enormous experience in struggle and solidarity. The very life in the wilderness made people stick together. It was against this background that the working class and the rest of the population came together. The protests of the workers in Zhanoazen and Aktau then set the tone for other regions of the country. Yurts and tents, which protesters began to put up in the main squares of the cities, were not at all taken from the “Euromaidan” experience: they stood in the Mangastau Region during the local strikes last year. The population itself brought water and food for the protesters.

In Kazakhstan today there is no legal opposition, the entire political field has been cleared. The Communist Party of Kazakhstan was the last to be liquidated in 2015. Only 7 pro-governmental parties remained. But there are plenty of NGOs working in the country, which actively cooperate with the authorities in promoting a pro-Western agenda. Their favorite topics: the famine of the 1930s, the rehabilitation of participants of the Basmachi movement and collaborators of World War II, and so on. NGOs also work on the development of nationalist movement, which in Kazakhstan is completely pro-government. Nationalists hold rallies against China and Russia which are sanctioned by the authorities.

Back in 2017, a monument was erected in Kyzyl-Orda to Mustafa Chokai, the inspirer of the Turkestan legion of the Wehrmacht. Today, the state is radically revising history. The process has especially intensified after Nursultan Nazarbayev’s visit to the USA a few years ago. The pan-Turkic movement is also becoming more and more active. More recently, i[on the initiative of Nursultan Nazarbayev, the Union of Turkic States was established in Istanbul on Nov. 12, 2021. Kazakhstan’s elite keeps its main assets in the West. That’s why the imperialistic states are absolutely not interested in the downfall of the present regime; it is already completely on their side.

Nazarbayev’s resignation as president to head the Security Council was motivated by the desire to create the appearance of democracy, including to the West. In reality, he maintains full control over all the branches of power and only increased his power while at the same time completely avoiding responsibility. President Tokayev is a decorative figure, a pawn within the ruling family. Undoubtedly, the current protests can lead to some factions attempting a palace coup or similar actions. You can’t reduce everything to conspiracy theories. You shouldn’t idealize the current protest movement either. Yes, it is a grassroots social movement, with a pioneering role for workers, supported by the unemployed and other social groups. But there are very different forces at work in it, especially as workers do not have their own party, class trade unions, a clear program that fully meets their interests. The existing left-wing groups in Kazakhstan are more like circles and cannot seriously influence the course of events. Oligarchic and outside forces will try to appropriate and or at least use this movement for their own purposes. If it wins, the redistribution of property and open confrontation between various groups of the bourgeoisie, a “war of all against all,” will begin. But, in any case, the workers will be able to win certain freedoms and get new opportunities, including the creation of their own parties and independent trade unions, which will facilitate their struggle for their rights in the future.''

- this is the interview excerpt from the activist Aynur Kurmanov from that whole article in short if someone is only interested in reading his take on the causes of the whole situation there now.      

Edited January 8, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[StarStruck]

The only party that provided from this event is Russia. They got to spread their forces in a former soviet country and get influence. And at the same time sabotage Chinese and Turkish sphere of influence. Especially the energy pipeline between the turkic countries (aka silk road) are now in danger with Russian troops on the ground. 

[Danioover9000]

@Fleetinglife

24 minutes ago, Fleetinglife said:

How about you take some action and join an org, group, movement, or action calling into the independent investigation of actions of ''Tony Blair and Associates'' consultancy groups receiving millions of pounds (pardon dollars) from the former Kazakh autocratic president and his family that fled the country now into Dubai and joined with the former Afghan US puppet president, into the PR for covering the state crackdown and police brutality and massacres of Kazakh oil workers in the Zhaonzen massacre, the same workers that were now first on the firing lines to protest a sudden increase in the spike of not just gas prices but also other crucial living commodities prices because the government lift price control mechanism and state subsidies for domestic gas prices for regular Kazakh citizens and workers in order to leave it to the prices determined by the international market and because of the easing of electronic bidding reasons conducted mostly by Western oil companies who have large stakes and shares in the Kazakh state oil industries and have a large private oil industry there

or for the Tory MPs to disclose from who have they received funds for book deals and PR firms writing favorably on the previous and ousted Kazakh autocratic government and president and what did they do with that money they received and they then stashed on their tax havens on the British Virgin Islands and later spent on what?

or call on them to investigate and pressure by joining or donating to some group or org. pressuring the UK government into the investigation of the origin of the vast sum of money and funds of former president Nazarbayev's and families real estate empire worth 80 million pounds sitting in the UK

I think you should stake into consideration what actions, education, and information you yourself can take but are not doing so and not going to immediately blame and moral grandstand to others who are suffering through this now for infecting everyone with their victim mindset in this thread when their own government's officials sources of economic power and wealth were propped up and protected by your own government officials

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/06/how-tony-blair-advised-former-kazakh-ruler-after-2011-uprising

 

   I'm a wierdo free lancer, whose job isn't related to politics, MPs and Tony Blair as you make me out to be lol. I contribute my own way to the world, don't care about unsubstantiated criticisms against me, and part of my free time is spent in this forum, learning different resources, and personal development. My limited role in this thread, was learning about the situation, and pointing out to the few who're too passionate, maybe look at the forum guidelines again, tone yourselves down, and come back when you're not too heated up. Probably should have said that first then leave and take some action, but that's my sense of the situation, that to the few who are riled up, are only complaining and making this mostly about Russia and the USA, instead of mostly about KazaKhstan, it's society, it's culture, it's people.

   My role here in participating is done, so hopefully here's to a healthy thread discourse, or not.

[Fleetinglife]

31 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

 I'm a wierdo free lancer, whose job isn't related to politics, MPs and Tony Blair as you make me out to be lol. I contribute my own way to the world, don't care about unsubstantiated criticisms against me, and part of my free time is spent in this forum, learning different resources, and personal development.

Nor did I claim that you were a part of the UK government just that there exist orgs, activists, and movements who you can help, make friends with, or support in order to bring into light your government shenanigans who you pay taxes to and whose economy you stimulate with whatever work you are doing into the light and for something about it to maybe be done or for something in it to change.

That's what I claimed it could be done with the notion of taking action while criticizing others for not doing so, not directed at your personal character and lifestyle, etc.

31 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

My limited role in this thread, was learning about the situation, and pointing out to the few who're too passionate, maybe look at the forum guidelines again, tone yourselves down, and come back when you're not too heated up. Probably should have said that first then leave and take some action, but that's my sense of the situation, that to the few who are riled up

I Agree, and I misinterpreted your intentions and motives for helping improve the understanding, compassion, and communication of different people engaged in this thread then so I deeply apologize for that for making it sound with the way I phrased it that you feel that I personally attacked you and your character and your life's work. MB, apologies for this, indeed in this thread seemed that they started to get heated up and derailed.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[PurpleTree]

 

^^haven't watched it yet btw. will watch later

[PurpleTree]

"one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter"

or something like that i guess

 

 

 

I don't know i'm confused with all these situation Syria, Covid, Kazakhstan etc. 

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, K Ghoul said:

@PurpleTree I mean I’m glad that at least the whole Nazarbayev’s clan maybe will now get exposed and the World will know that people are struggling to find money to get gas while the amount of money that’s he’s been stealing from the county over the course of 30 years is probably enough to sustain him for the next 10 generations 

Do you think Kazakhstan is ready for democracy?

I mean democracy is always also a struggle as you see in the west

and it's very sensitive to being influenced by outside forces (or inside)

and it goes back and forth

Things like the highspeed railways in China on that scale probably wouldn't have been possible in a western country for example

everything has pros and cons

but when you have corrupt leaders and an authoritarian regime it seems worse

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, Khr said:

Westerners have no idea of what struggle even is. Imagine feeding your family and surviving with food prices close to western (some foods more expensive), minimum monthly full time job pay of $230 USD and average monthly pay of $300-400 USD?

Again, people living there would feel like they won a jackpot if they had what US has. Especially the young generations, who know how to use the internet, who speak English or any other language, who were able to travel a bit maybe, who see how the rest of the world lives. Older generations live in fog, they don’t know what’s out there, 99% never travelled outside of the Soviet Union, if even outside of their city (50 years ago when they were young), they believe whatever the TV says. 
 

well i'm living in western europe and i wouldn't really want what the u.s. has

too much division, too much crime, not enough social institutions, too much craziness etc.

although it's surely a beautiful country, especially the landscapes

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Khr said:

Well would you rather live with 300$ per month?  

my health insurance alone costs over 450$ every month

 

i'd like to live in maybe Costa Rica for a while though and see how it is there