Situation in Kazakhstan

[PurpleTree]

I thought of Kazakhstan as non democratic but a stable country.

https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-safety/central-asia/kazakhstan/crime-in-kazakhstan

"In the 2020 Global Peace Index, Kazakhstan ranks 70 out of 163 countries when it comes to safety and peace in the country. In Russia and Eurasia overall, Kazakhstan ranks #1 in peacefulness out of 12 countries in the region."

 

Also the prosperity increased a lot over the last decades because of oil and gas with a decent gdp per capita

 

But apparently things are spiralling out of control right now, with protests, killings and now Russia sending "peace" troops.

 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/06/asia/kazakhstan-almaty-protests-explainer-intl-hnk/index.html

 

"(CNN)Violent protests in Kazakhstan in recent days have seen the government resign and the declaration of a state of emergency as troops from a Russian-led military alliance head to the Central Asian country to help quell the unrest."

 

Is the perceived stability that we have in western Europe for example also very fragile or pretty stable and a huge achievement?

[Space Lizard]

I am curious how much, if any, of this protesting is being sponsored by the usual suspects (CIA, Soros, etc.) as it was in Ukraine, Hong Kong, etc. How much is an authentic, home-grown uprising, and how much is a Color Revolution being pushed by outside agitators? It's certainly convenient to have another country on Russia's borders experiencing unrest just as Russia is taking a hard stance toward NATO, and no doubt the professional Russophobes and subversives will try to take advantage of it.

[Space Lizard]

Russia is a "trash can"? Why the Russophobia? Have you been there?

[Space Lizard]

I lived in Moscow for a year. It wasn't utopia, but it wasn't a shithole. I don't love it, but I give it respect. And you? Where do you get your idea that Russia is a shithole from?

Edited January 6, 2022 by Space Lizard

[Space Lizard]

Nobody brainwashed me, I mostly hung out with non-Russians. I did travel through Siberia and I know that the country is not rich outside the big cities, but neither is most of the world. It sounds like you are from Ukraine and are intensely Russophobic, so it's kind of like talking to a person from Pakistan about India, or vice versa. Not exactly an objective perspective. As for fucking off, if there's one country in the world that won't fuck off from the rest of the world, it's USA, wouldn't you agree?

[Fleetinglife]

On 1/6/2022 at 3:15 PM, PurpleTree said:

as troops from a Russian-led military alliance head to the Central Asian country to help quell the unrest."

What is this phrasing by CNN? ''Russian-led'', like in to sneak in quick propaganda, the psychological trick for shaping the perceptions of its targeted audience for the future and in the upcoming possible events in that country that will follow while reporting on them live. Russia is yes the founder and the largest military within the CSTO (Collective Security Treaty Organization), but it can be said that it directly leads it, there is a council where chairman from different countries rotate, as in the same way that it cannot be said that the US directly leads NATO, rather it considers treaty nations its strategic allies under the terms of that shared agreement while also being the most overall most powerful member of it in militarily and economically wise.

Also, the Kazakhstani government is also part of the CSTO so it's not that this organization (I would not even call it a standard military alliance hatched between these 6 countries) is going into a non-member entity as questionable as to its intentions, motives, and reasons for it doing so now and in the following hours and days, it may be.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Fleetinglife said:

What is this phrasing by CNN? ''Russian-led'', like in to sneak in quick propaganda, the psychological trick for shaping the perceptions of its targeted audience for the future and in the upcoming possible events in that country that will follow while reporting on them live. Russia is yes the founder and the largest military within the CSTO (Cooperation and Security Treaty Organization), but it can be said that it directly leads it, there is a council where chairman from different countries rotate, as in the same way that it cannot be said that the US directly leads NATO, rather it considers treaty nations its strategic allies under the terms of that shared agreement while also being the most overall most powerful member of it in militarily and economically wise.

if you look at the member states 

 Armenia 

 Belarus  

 Kazakhstan

 Kyrgyzstan 

 Russia 

 Tajikistan

 

then it's pretty clear that they're led by Russia, how could it be otherwise?

not a fan of cnn in anyway btw.

[Space Lizard]

Well Khr, you sound like you are caught up in nationalist hatred. Calling a country a shithole and its people animals doesn't give you a lot of credibility in my book. I see a lot of this kind of Russophobia, and I don't get it. Yes, Russia is a harsh culture in some ways, but it has a lot of good points and should be given respect. The situation over there is pretty dangerous and there's a lot of anti-Russia propaganda that could lead to war. I think a lot of it is based on hatred and should be toned down. It's none of my business as an American what is happening in Ukraine, so why is my government meddling there and maybe Kazakhstan and putting me in danger? Who benefits from all the Russophobia and foreign meddling? Not me.

[Fleetinglife]

17 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

if you look at the member states 

 Armenia 

 Belarus  

 Kazakhstan

 Kyrgyzstan 

 Russia 

 Tajikistan

 

then it's pretty clear that they're led by Russia, how could it be otherwise?

not a fan of cnn in anyway btw.

Oh, it's just 6, then where the hell have I read that there are more and just assumed have blurted out that random number 13 beforehand.

Yeah, I get your point but the phrasing is still very double-standard and hypocritical in terms you see how the NATO alliance is reported, nowhere is it reported or explicitly stated that it is a US-led military alliance or stated or phrased that way that it is, in fact, a military alliance.

And it can go beyond military organizations, you can see reporting of BRI, as being a China-led economic project and plan, phrased in the way that is somehow unwilling or imposed and not incentivized or voluntary on the part of the countries participating in it, to give an example.

You can always detect with the way in which they accentuate either the word ''Russia" or ''Russian'', "China'' or "Chinese'' when reporting on something those countries are engaged in that it has our ''enemies'' or ''rivals'' tone slipped into it and New Cold War narrative atmosphere cultivation among the public and tinge slipped in every report reporting on an issue wherever those two are claimed to be featured as the ''usual suspects''.

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[PurpleTree]

Just now, Khr said:

You sound like the kind of person who would peacefully sit on a chair and stuff their fat greedy face with a second burger when there is a person dying of hunger in front of you. 

but also don't fall for the silly childish egoistic devilry mindset of "we got to bring these poor people democracy"

[Fleetinglife]

I would also say that the Gulf States can't be so assured now of not having an attempt of a people's uprising happening to them as well sometimes soon over the undemocratic and authoritarian natures of their own governments seeing that it can happen to an oil-rich country such as Kazakhstan and that their own people might be inspired as well by this and see that it is possible to stage a successful uprising and revolution.

[Space Lizard]

24 minutes ago, Khr said:

You sound like the kind of person who would peacefully sit on a chair and stuff their fat greedy face with a second burger when there is a person dying of hunger in front of them.

No friend, I've just learned that you have to be very careful about letting ethnic hatred and propaganda influence your foreign policy. Look at the Iraq invasion; it was based on lies and misinformation spread by people with nefarious agendas and hatreds. Also Afghanistan, Syria, Libya. I'm worried that the US might make a similar mistake in the Ukraine, or Asia, or wherever. I don't care what you do, just don't try to get my country involved based on what sounds a lot like ethnic hatred and atrocity propaganda. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Space Lizard

[Danioover9000]

   So the facts of the situation, is that Kazakhstan's government has lost control of the rioting, and the Russian government is sending part of it's army to regain order in that country?

[Danioover9000]

   What do you think about the current situation @Roy , @Leo Gura ?

[Roy]

I don't know anything about Kazakhstan besides some pro CSGO players from there LOL. 

[Opo]

@Khr How would you feel like if Ukrainian soldiers tortured some Russians?

Edited January 7, 2022 by Opo

[Porphyry Fedotov]

14 hours ago, Space Lizard said:

I am curious how much, if any, of this protesting is being sponsored by the usual suspects (CIA, Soros, etc.) as it was in Ukraine, Hong Kong, etc. How much is an authentic, home-grown uprising, and how much is a Color Revolution being pushed by outside agitators? It's certainly convenient to have another country on Russia's borders experiencing unrest just as Russia is taking a hard stance toward NATO, and no doubt the professional Russophobes and subversives will try to take advantage of it.

Ukraine and Hong Kong protests were authentic. What are you on, dude

Also what happening in Kazakhstan is quite simple - people got sick and tired of Nazarbayev and the fuel price spike was the final straw. So they deposed him. I think Russia may use this situation to invade Kazakhstan as it did with Ukraine during The Revolution of Dignity (but I hope it wont). It's hilarious to see how this thread degraded into discussion about how Russia is a shithole. In some ways it is a shithole but it's more complicated than that. There is beauty in every country and a silver lining in every situation.

[Fleetinglife]

11 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

   What do you think about the current situation @Roy , @Leo Gura ?

Why are you asking them for insight into the situation, they can be semi-enlightened at best into it, the real SAGE you should be asking about this is this meta-perspectivist:

 

 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Fleetinglife  I'm asking because I wanted to know what their perspectiveon of this situation is. What about yours?

   What do you also think @Carl-Richard ?

Edited January 7, 2022 by Danioover9000

[Fleetinglife]

@Danioover9000 The protests and fearlessness and radicalism of the people taking down the statues, making citizens arrests of military personnel protecting the regime, and storming the palaces of their former corrupt rulers are a good sight to see of people purging away their political apathy, fears, and exercising their inherent democratic power en mass but it led to not a good situation and precedent overall now with CSTO intervention.

What's maybe worrying if one is to trust the assessments, opinions and predictions of socially deemed experts with expertise on the topic in relation to one's own mind is that this current unfortunate unfolding of events in Kazakhstan may embolden Russia and its proxies to launch its planned military intervention/invasion into Eastern Ukraine to severe it in half at the Dnieper River at approx the 4-minute mark in the video in the majority Russian speaking and friendly areas in late January or in the beginnings of February as this former senior Pentagon advisor and retired US Army Colonel Douglas MacGregor (and seeming Trump supporter/loyalist) seems to claim and forward a prediction about:

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Fleetinglife