A moment of silence for user Waveintheocean and my views on Spiritual Teachings

[Preety_India]

 

A moment of silence for user Waveintheocean. 

Can we all hold a moment of silence in the memory of a community member waveintheocean who departed in the month of December by committing suicide. Condolences and prayers to his family and anyone who is mourning his loss. 

 

 

I don't remember interacting with the user waveintheocean (perhaps rarely if at all) and so I do not know much about this user, although I deeply regret his loss since he was a member of this community, I feel a sense of connection that way. I was hesitant on making this post, not sure about what I wanted to say, but I thought it was my social responsibility to compose a general message in the hope that others will pick it up and not repeat the same. It saddens me deeply that user waveintheocean did not try to seek help either through this forum or privately before this tragedy occurred. 

You're truly missed Waveintheocean. It's sad that you left us. Maybe you could have let us know what you were going through and we would have helped you in whatever way we could. 

It's sad and unfortunate that this opportunity was never given. Your loss affects us more than you know now that you are gone. 

Many people on this forum feel suicidal. I personally been through those struggles. 

My heart goes out to you and understands your pain. Last night I cried thinking about you and how you left.. I felt as though you felt a sense of emptiness and felt this life was pointless. 

I want users to know to not take non dual teachings so seriously that they lose the zest for life. Life is worth living in your darkest and emptiest days. Don't ever lose hope. Your life is precious. Every life is. 

I personally don't know what sort of a hell the user waveintheocean was going through days before his death but it seems he saw no way out. He probably even felt that psychedelics and non duality was a solution to his emptiness and life's issues but sadly non duality can be very misleading for those who are looking for a way to live a fulfilling life. Often people come to the forum complaining about how non duality made them lose interest in everyday life things, perhaps we as community members can pay more attention to such complaints rather than just debating frivolously on non duality. If it impacts people negatively, there must be some truth to their complaints, there might be something for everyone to learn and understand that if something doesn't really help you find what you need in life, then you shouldn't cling to it out of herd mentality. Non-dual teachings are not meant to lead toward leading a happy or fulfilled existence as seen in the past 2 suicides on this forum alone. Maybe it's an illusion to think that you will magically find the truth in non duality. I'm not bashing non duality here, simply mentioning that it might work for some but not for others. Also this forum has a tendency to float this view that life is boring without infinite consciousness states, yes I agree that life has both materialistic and spiritual paradigms, but it's wrong to assume that life is pointless petty if you haven't achieved God realization or infinite consciousness or enlightenment. Life is worthy with or without. Your life does not become pointless because you did not follow non dual teachings nor is death a way to achieve such truth. Remember you could be using non dual teachings as escapism and taking life for granted. Please don't. Life is too precious to think of losing it even it meant you're reaching some form of truth. Nothing is more Valuable than life itself. Even though this sounds cliché, it needs constant reiteration. 

1.

Psychedelics and non duality are not the end all be all. 

Please take psychedelics seriously and not something that you should do as an experiment especially if you are dealing with some form of mental disorder psychological issues like mania, depression, suicidal ideation, trauma etc because taking psychedelics purely for experimental or recreational reasons when your basic state of mind is in chaos could be a disaster. Be careful while trying to find the truth especially when psychedelics are involved and don't take unnecessary risks. Your insights while tripping on such things meanwhile having an unstable mind/emotional state could easily lead you to a path of suicide and chaos. Please don't go straight to the idea of enlightenment even when your basics aren't in order or figured out. You're adding too much too sudden to your already complicated existence. Be grounded in reality. Your insights need to have some structure, some tethering to reality. If you feel that you are experiencing chaos, immediately stop the usage of psychedelics and first come to a ground state. Your basic life should have some order in order to keep suicidal thoughts out. 

Non duality is just a concept. You don't have to and you don't need to turn it into an ideology and it's  not the best one at that when you are looking for healing and psychological well-being. Don't think about it as a road to ultimate happiness, in fact it is anything but that. Most people don't register themselves as happy and fulfilled when they follow these paths anyway. It overlooks other aspects of life terribly .. aspects that are paramount to human happiness. Most people don't have a fundamental grounding and the necessary family support to cope, when they begin to get trapped into these rabbit holes of non dual spirituality. They find themselves in sudden chaos and life becomes to seem endlessly confusing, chaotic, mundane, boring and their detachment to life reaches such high levels that they begin to feel disoriented and dissociated from basic existence and see suicide as a cop out from their confusion and malady and see death as a means of attaining truth and liberation, a classic rabbit hole and fallacy. Please consider this. 

2.

Embracing Reality. 

I recently came across this insight that a part of my spirituality kit was to embrace reality as much as possible, whether I like it or not. 

It's important to embrace reality. Suicide does not lead to truth. A lot of users confuse Mahasamadhi and the concepts of infinite consciousness with death and try to bypass life to get to it. That's an error. 

If you do not embrace reality, it's difficult to get the most out of life, plus some way or another reality will come and slap you in the face at some point if you don't make peace with it. Please understand that reality is not your enemy even if it's often cold and harsh. It's only a mirror, a tool to navigate through the maze of life. 

3.

Importance of compassion. 

No matter whatever negative opinions we have about others on this forum, it's important to hold compassion for everyone. One way to practice compassion is to hold a completely non judgemental view of the other. We never know what someone might be dealing with or going through. We are not in their place/shoes. Our opinions are merely opinions at the end of the day. We are here to uplift each other. People who seem to be doing well in life or generally happy or seem to be making tremendous progress on the spiritual side might still have their psychological and emotional demons that they're dealing with. It's not necessary that if someone is spiritually progressing they are automatically perfect and not struggling with anything. Please don't judge. Don't judge someone struggling in life as incomplete, unwise, defective or "misusing the forum" or "trainwreck" or unworthy of help or a lost cause. We all need some form of help. That's why we are all here in the first place. This is not a competition of who is perfect and who is defective. Let's not play favoritism games. Everyone deserves help and fully entitled to receive help on this forum in whatever way they see fit. Let's not judge how they seek to get help, it's up to them. If we stay non judgemental on serious issues like suicide and depression, people will be more likely to open up about their struggles without hesitation and fear of judgement and we can stop them from an actual suicide. Maybe they can't afford therapy. Maybe they don't have access to therapy or insurance. Lady Gaga very recently emphasized on the importance of awareness on mental health struggles and how millions of people cannot afford therapy in America alone, think about the situation in poorer countries. 

People who look perfect on the outside or seems like they are well put together, could be falling apart on the inside, maybe they have some sort of internal conflict, some sort of internal pain that is bothering them, maybe they don't feel like talking about it out of the fear that they would be judged or that they would be perceived as not so perfect or they would be stopped being taken seriously. It's important to not make a person feel like they committed some crime or failed to show proper growth (as per forum standards), whenever they became vulnerable and opened about their personal struggles. Shaming someone, judging someone for their personality, personal life or flaws is a big reason why people don't dare to open up about their truest deepest struggles. Is out forum so drenched in scarcity mindset that we cannot accommodate or give space to people who are struggling? Do we constantly need to engage in ego validation debates of who is better than who. We need to drop this and reduce the stage orange competitive nature and adopt the compassionate approach. No matter how wise, spiritually advanced, calm, centered one appears, deep down they could be struggling as well, nor is there a need to judge someone who is vocal about their struggles and forsake them or deem them unworthy of appreciation. 

If we can talk about having compassion for pedophiles, then we can definitely extend compassion to those who feel weak, helpless, struggling, those who feel depressed, suicidal, those who have emotional issues because everyone deserves compassion, not just a specific group. Let's not invalidate someone's struggles nor their need for appreciation and acceptance. Everyone deserves a chance to open up without being subjected to your biases and invalidation or your judgement. 

There's a tendency on this forum to demonize suicide or suicidal depression by constantly saying "this is not the place." I understand that someone dealing with such issues might need real world help like a suicide hotline, therapy etc, yet constantly headlining that people with such issues should go look elsewhere is a sign of dismissiveness, indifference and disowning such people and their issues, simply because we don't want to deal with it, we want to turn a blind eye when we can do at least a tiny bit to help people with such issues by simply giving them space to open up and by being non judgemental. The more we judge and shun people with suicidal issues/depression/trauma issues, the the harder it will be for people like that to come forward for treatment. You definitely want them to seek other forms of help, but you want them to seek help in a safe place in a safe way without turning them away. 

4.

Using practical help 

 

Not everything is healed by spirituality. It's important to seek professional help if you have the means to do so. Don't rely on this forum completely. After all it is just a forum where anyone can join, not a paradise. A lot of disordered people join here and it's best to not take advice from them. Don't follow any advice here blindly. Don't abuse psychedelics. Don't take Leo's advice with a grain of salt. If Leo's advice is not applicable to you, doesn't mean there is something wrong with you. If you're in a critical situation, best to avoid the forum as much as possible because it can fuck with your head kinda badly. If you have medical problems don't consider psychedelics and non duality just because Leo tells you so. First work out on your problems safely and with assistance. Be open to ask for help. If someone is trying to play spiritual dick measuring contest with you, avoid them. You're here primarily to help yourself, not to prove anything to Leo or anyone. 

Namaste and condolences. 

Preety. 

 

 

[happyhappy]

24 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

 

A moment of silence for user Waveintheocean. 

Can we all hold a moment of silence in the memory of a community member waveintheocean who departed in the month of December by committing suicide. Condolences and prayers to his family and anyone who is mourning his loss. 

 

 

I don't remember interacting with the user waveintheocean (perhaps rarely if at all) and so I do not know much about this user, although I deeply regret his loss since he was a member of this community, I feel a sense of connection that way. I was hesitant on making this post, not sure about what I wanted to say, but I thought it was my social responsibility to compose a general message in the hope that others will pick it up and not repeat the same. It saddens me deeply that user waveintheocean did not try to seek help either through this forum or privately before this tragedy occurred. 

You're truly missed Waveintheocean. It's sad that you left us. Maybe you could have let us know what you were going through and we would have helped you in whatever way we could. 

It's sad and unfortunate that this opportunity was never given. Your loss affects us more than you know now that you are gone. 

Many people on this forum feel suicidal. I personally been through those struggles. 

My heart goes out to you and understands your pain. Last night I cried thinking about you and how you left.. I felt as though you felt a sense of emptiness and felt this life was pointless. 

I want users to know to not take non dual teachings so seriously that they lose the zest for life. Life is worth living in your darkest and emptiest days. Don't ever lose hope. Your life is precious. Every life is. 

I personally don't know what sort of a hell the user waveintheocean was going through days before his death but it seems he saw no way out. He probably even felt that psychedelics and non duality was a solution to his emptiness and life's issues but sadly non duality can be very misleading for those who are looking for a way to live a fulfilling life. Often people come to the forum complaining about how non duality made them lose interest in everyday life things, perhaps we as community members can pay more attention to such complaints rather than just debating frivolously on non duality. If it impacts people negatively, there must be some truth to their complaints, there might be something for everyone to learn and understand that if something doesn't really help you find what you need in life, then you shouldn't cling to it out of herd mentality. Non-dual teachings are not meant to lead toward leading a happy or fulfilled existence as seen in the past 2 suicides on this forum alone. Maybe it's an illusion to think that you will magically find the truth in non duality. I'm not bashing non duality here, simply mentioning that it might work for some but not for others. Also this forum has a tendency to float this view that life is boring without infinite consciousness states, yes I agree that life has both materialistic and spiritual paradigms, but it's wrong to assume that life is pointless petty if you haven't achieved God realization or infinite consciousness or enlightenment. Life is worthy with or without. Your life does not become pointless because you did not follow non dual teachings nor is death a way to achieve such truth. Remember you could be using non dual teachings as escapism and taking life for granted. Please don't. Life is too precious to think of losing it even it meant you're reaching some form of truth. Nothing is more Valuable than life itself. Even though this sounds cliché, it needs constant reiteration. 

1.

Psychedelics and non duality are not the end all be all. 

Please take psychedelics seriously and not something that you should do as an experiment especially if you are dealing with some form of mental disorder psychological issues like mania, depression, suicidal ideation, trauma etc because taking psychedelics purely for experimental or recreational reasons when your basic state of mind is in chaos could be a disaster. Be careful while trying to find the truth especially when psychedelics are involved and don't take unnecessary risks. Your insights while tripping on such things meanwhile having an unstable mind/emotional state could easily lead you to a path of suicide and chaos. Please don't go straight to the idea of enlightenment even when your basics aren't in order or figured out. You're adding too much too sudden to your already complicated existence. Be grounded in reality. Your insights need to have some structure, some tethering to reality. If you feel that you are experiencing chaos, immediately stop the usage of psychedelics and first come to a ground state. Your basic life should have some order in order to keep suicidal thoughts out. 

Non duality is just a concept. You don't have to and you don't need to turn it into an ideology and it's  not the best one at that when you are looking for healing and psychological well-being. Don't think about it as a road to ultimate happiness, in fact it is anything but that. Most people don't register themselves as happy and fulfilled when they follow these paths anyway. It overlooks other aspects of life terribly .. aspects that are paramount to human happiness. Most people don't have a fundamental grounding and the necessary family support to cope, when they begin to get trapped into these rabbit holes of non dual spirituality. They find themselves in sudden chaos and life becomes to seem endlessly confusing, chaotic, mundane, boring and their detachment to life reaches such high levels that they begin to feel disoriented and dissociated from basic existence and see suicide as a cop out from their confusion and malady and see death as a means of attaining truth and liberation, a classic rabbit hole and fallacy. Please consider this. 

2.

Embracing Reality. 

I recently came across this insight that a part of my spirituality kit was to embrace reality as much as possible, whether I like it or not. 

It's important to embrace reality. Suicide does not lead to truth. A lot of users confuse Mahasamadhi and the concepts of infinite consciousness with death and try to bypass life to get to it. That's an error. 

If you do not embrace reality, it's difficult to get the most out of life, plus some way or another reality will come and slap you in the face at some point if you don't make peace with it. Please understand that reality is not your enemy even if it's often cold and harsh. It's only a mirror, a tool to navigate through the maze of life. 

3.

Importance of compassion. 

No matter whatever negative opinions we have about others on this forum, it's important to hold compassion for everyone. One way to practice compassion is to hold a completely non judgemental view of the other. We never know what someone might be dealing with or going through. We are not in their place/shoes. Our opinions are merely opinions at the end of the day. We are here to uplift each other. People who seem to be doing well in life or generally happy or seem to be making tremendous progress on the spiritual side might still have their psychological and emotional demons that they're dealing with. It's not necessary that if someone is spiritually progressing they are automatically perfect and not struggling with anything. Please don't judge. Don't judge someone struggling in life as incomplete, unwise, defective or "misusing the forum" or "trainwreck" or unworthy of help or a lost cause. We all need some form of help. That's why we are all here in the first place. This is not a competition of who is perfect and who is defective. Let's not play favoritism games. Everyone deserves help and fully entitled to receive help on this forum in whatever way they see fit. Let's not judge how they seek to get help, it's up to them. If we stay non judgemental on serious issues like suicide and depression, people will be more likely to open up about their struggles without hesitation and fear of judgement and we can stop them from an actual suicide. Maybe they can't afford therapy. Maybe they don't have access to therapy or insurance. Lady Gaga very recently emphasized on the importance of awareness on mental health struggles and how millions of people cannot afford therapy in America alone, think about the situation in poorer countries. 

People who look perfect on the outside or seems like they are well put together, could be falling apart on the inside, maybe they have some sort of internal conflict, some sort of internal pain that is bothering them, maybe they don't feel like talking about it out of the fear that they would be judged or that they would be perceived as not so perfect or they would be stopped being taken seriously. It's important to not make a person feel like they committed some crime or failed to show proper growth (as per forum standards), whenever they became vulnerable and opened about their personal struggles. Shaming someone, judging someone for their personality, personal life or flaws is a big reason why people don't dare to open up about their truest deepest struggles. Is out forum so drenched in scarcity mindset that we cannot accommodate or give space to people who are struggling? Do we constantly need to engage in ego validation debates of who is better than who. We need to drop this and reduce the stage orange competitive nature and adopt the compassionate approach. No matter how wise, spiritually advanced, calm, centered one appears, deep down they could be struggling as well, nor is there a need to judge someone who is vocal about their struggles and forsake them or deem them unworthy of appreciation. 

If we can talk about having compassion for pedophiles, then we can definitely extend compassion to those who feel weak, helpless, struggling, those who feel depressed, suicidal, those who have emotional issues because everyone deserves compassion, not just a specific group. Let's not invalidate someone's struggles nor their need for appreciation and acceptance. Everyone deserves a chance to open up without being subjected to your biases and invalidation or your judgement. 

There's a tendency on this forum to demonize suicide or suicidal depression by constantly saying "this is not the place." I understand that someone dealing with such issues might need real world help like a suicide hotline, therapy etc, yet constantly headlining that people with such issues should go look elsewhere is a sign of dismissiveness, indifference and disowning such people and their issues, simply because we don't want to deal with it, we want to turn a blind eye when we can do at least a tiny bit to help people with such issues by simply giving them space to open up and by being non judgemental. The more we judge and shun people with suicidal issues/depression/trauma issues, the the harder it will be for people like that to come forward for treatment. You definitely want them to seek other forms of help, but you want them to seek help in a safe place in a safe way without turning them away. 

4.

Using practical help 

 

Not everything is healed by spirituality. It's important to seek professional help if you have the means to do so. Don't rely on this forum completely. After all it is just a forum where anyone can join, not a paradise. A lot of disordered people join here and it's best to not take advice from them. Don't follow any advice here blindly. Don't abuse psychedelics. Don't take Leo's advice with a grain of salt. If Leo's advice is not applicable to you, doesn't mean there is something wrong with you. If you're in a critical situation, best to avoid the forum as much as possible because it can fuck with your head kinda badly. If you have medical problems don't consider psychedelics and non duality just because Leo tells you so. First work out on your problems safely and with assistance. Be open to ask for help. If someone is trying to play spiritual dick measuring contest with you, avoid them. You're here primarily to help yourself, not to prove anything to Leo or anyone. 

Namaste and condolences. 

Preety. 

 

 

how kind of u to make this sorta thread! ??thank you! 

I agree 100% with almost all of ur takes on spiritual quest. 

[Preety_India]

@happyhappy thank you and regards. 

 

[Random witch]

Someone had to say those things clearly. I'm glad that this thread is exist. Wow, you wrote it so well!

We can't bypass our life's shit by high spiritual teachings, and yeah people should be much more kind with eachother and stop with this competitive shit. I get a serious cringe when people post they are God or they just have got to this so high state and people praise them. It reminds me the social media, when someone post he just have bought a new car or got married. It's disturbing that people see spirituality as something that you achieve or not. Black or white. I think it's something private, and there's nothing special we need to do, and we don't need to do an extraordinary things in order to welcome spirituality to our life. We all already spiritual creatures by our nature. Practicing self love, gratitude, acceptance, compassion, in our daily life is much more important than realizing you're God or willing to be enlightenment IMO because it brings a real joy, peace, calmness to our life, it's so important, those are the highest emotional states one can be in. We are existing for this, the infinite consciousness decided to express herself through a human physical body in order to live in joy. This is where the Buddha is, no wonder he's smiling.
All this dick measuring, all this non acceptence, all this competition is killing the potential of possible joy in our life.
Most people here should start with psychological treatments and no wonder because we live in fucked up society which we traumatized by and bullied by our entire life. It's not just a few people who suffer from depression and anxiety it's about a massive amount of people with those problems and even more, it's so sad that people gaslight those and we as a society have no tolerance for this.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Random witch

[itachi uchiha]

@Preety_India @Preety_IndiaIndia do not worry as an article on kriya yoga is on the way.i am in the process of writing about kriya yoga.kriya yoga solves all problem as it gives  happiness for 24 hours.ask everyone to not leave until i post about kriya yoga .it require a lot of work to organize all my thoughts and write an article a beginner can digest

[CodyXarex]

I'll keep waveintheocean and is SO in mind when I pray tonight.

[happyhappy]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:54 AM, Preety_India said:

Can we all hold a moment of silence in the memory of a community member waveintheocean who departed in the month of December by committing suicide. Condolences and prayers to his family and anyone who is mourning his loss.

if Leo  and mods agree maybe we all can stop posting on the forum for sometime by locking the forum  or something  as  a way to express our condolences. this community is full of amazing beautiful souls. tho we have never met each other, the support and growth plus the unity of this community is mind blowing. after all thomas/waveintheocean has been a dedicated user who have made over 1000 posts here over years. 

 

much love! 

Edited January 8, 2022 by happyhappy

[happyhappy]

15 hours ago, itachi uchiha said:

@Preety_India @Preety_IndiaIndia do not worry as an article on kriya yoga is on the way.i am in the process of writing about kriya yoga.kriya yoga solves all problem as it gives  happiness for 24 hours.ask everyone to not leave until i post about kriya yoga .it require a lot of work to organize all my thoughts and write an article a beginner can digest

now we never need to worry cuz of this magic thread will give us happiness for 24 hours.  we are waiting for the magic pill bro! 

lol, we are here offering our condolences and u come up with some spiritual hocus pocus.

cheers!

 

 

[itachi uchiha]

3 hours ago, happyhappy said:

now we never need to worry cuz of this magic thread will give us happiness for 24 hours.  we are waiting for the magic pill bro! 

 

 

I guess u never did authentic kriya yoga

 

No amount of condolences will change the situation.all we can do it to change the toxic spiritual wisdom that is widespread here and change it with more healthy approach

[Guru Peter Jordanson]

Struggled intensely with suicidal thinking way before i began on my path to awakening. Spirituality just intensified the suicidality as the ego-mind does not want to die and rather tries to take its host down. This path is the most difficult thing that a human being can take on.

Might to some degree understand the difficulty what waveintheocean went through. Knowing for a fact that life does not end when we leave the physical body as i left mine for a moment in 2016. I can only wish him and others the peaceful rest they deserve from the suffering they endured during their life. 

Also, do not get fooled in taking your life if you think about it. There are probably consequences to this that we do not know of and do not want to experience. Better be on the safe side and live our life to the end.

"This to shall pass".

[Hardkill]

I am very sorry to hear this. I didn't know him, but my heart goes out to him, family, and others who were close to him. May he Rest In Peace.

[Addy]

@Preety_India ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ I would sign everything you said.

I had a very powerful awakening 7 years ago, it kept going effortlessly for half a year, during and after that I was trying to force nonduality as the only way to view and live life. It did not solve my human issues one bit and I suffered terribly. Only after a year of forcing something that was not natural I quit, finally found a very sensitive psychotherapist with whom I was able to learn over the years how to actually address trauma (and that it was repressed trauma that was the source of my place in life, also suicidal back then). Awakening did not help me on that front. Only now after many years of sensitive human work do I feel safe going back to feeling my true nature as for so long I had it very strongly associated with rejecting the human. The human emotion, the human pain, the rejection, the joy, the sadness, the surprise, ... Now I know they are my deepest friends. I am not to heal them. They heal me.

Also, If you don't feel safe in your life, don't use psychedelics. Don't let yourself be swayed by the childish notion that if you're not willing to take them, you're not doing the best you can (yes, Leo can often make it sound that way, please accept that he is not developed equally in every way, he has deep insight into many things and a tendency of saying very unskillful things confidently). It's not worth it, you're much more likely to suffer than to learn something deep. I've made this mistake too many times in my life.

Please, I know you are doing your best. You are doing just fine. Please, acknowledge how much you are really asking of yourself, to instantly reorganize billions of neural networks, which served a purpose, their state is not a cosmic mistake, nor do they need to be all untangled instantly. Take your time and rest. It's okay. It's safe. ❤️

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Addy

[happyhappy]

On 1/7/2022 at 2:45 PM, itachi uchiha said:

I guess u never did authentic kriya yoga

 

No amount of condolences will change the situation.all we can do it to change the toxic spiritual wisdom that is widespread here and change it with more healthy approach

hmmm yes, i dnt have much experience with yoga mate. and I'll be looking forward for ur post dude!

[Brittany]

This a beautiful post Preety.