How Should Society Handle Pedophiles

[Gesundheit2]

I'm not a pedophile, but what if the "child" is down for sex? After all what's the difference between a child and an adult? What if we're hurting the children by not giving them what they want? Seriously, I started wanting to have sex since I was like 10, even before reaching puberty. Maybe not sex exactly, but at least some action with the opposite sex.

I just don't think the legal age is fair. Maybe puberty, I could agree to that. But why should someone wait for 5 years or more to start exploring their sexuality?

Edited January 6, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Etherial Cat]

24 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I'm not a pedophile, but what if the "child" is down for sex? After all what's the difference between a child and an adult? What if we're hurting the children by not giving them what they want? Seriously, I started wanting to have sex since I was like 10, even before reaching puberty. Maybe not sex exactly, but at least some action with the opposite sex.

I just don't think the legal age is fair. Maybe puberty, I could agree to that. But why should someone wait for 5 years or more to start exploring their sexuality?

What is protected is the child's psychological development, as well as its physical integrity.

A child is highly susceptible to be influenced/manipulated/coerced/groomed by an adult and is not equipped with enough life experience or independence to put back a sexual encounter into perspective or to say no.

There are uncomfortable truths regarding children sexual exploration. I was watching Leaving Neverland a few days ago, and to the men claiming they were abused as children by MJ, the sexual interactions overlapped with their own physical discoveries. The thing is: it wasn't the role of a 30+ year old man to touch them.

In my country, minors under 16 are allowed what is called "youthful love" if they do it within a 3 year up/down range. From 16 to 18, the situation is loosen unless the person seeking sexual interaction has a sort of authority on them.

 

[Space Lizard]

I have little doubt that there will be an effort to normalize pedophilia, as there has been with other sexual behavior formerly considered pathological. One of the first things they'll do is change the language; they'll start calling pedophiles "minor-attracted persons" and treating it as just another sexual preference. Then they'll start calling people who oppose pedophilia "pedophobes" and categorizing their opposition as a form of "hate". Eventually they will put pedophiles on TV shows and the covers of magazines and push for mainstream acceptance.

That might sound crazy, but so would the normalization of other unusual sexual orientations to our forefathers. One thing I've learned about our postmodern society and its cultural elite is that nothing is out of bounds or sacred, particularly in the area of sexuality. I don't actually think pedophilia will be normalized though, because the reaction will be too intense and they won't be able to get away with it. But I'm sure they will try.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Space Lizard

[Gesundheit2]

8 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

What is protected is the child's psychological development, as well as its physical integrity.

Can we say the same thing about education and the schools system, though? Learning is forced onto our minds even when it's against our will from a very young age, and we're told that it's for our good. We keep challenging our minds for over 12 years without a say in the matter. Why is this not considered abuse, both physical and mental? Isn't that a double standard?

8 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

A child is highly susceptible to be influenced/manipulated/coerced/groomed by an adult and is not equipped with enough life experience or independence to put back a sexual encounter into perspective or to say no.

This can be said about many adults, too. So is the age a real factor? Especially the legal age, since it's completely made-up. As well, life experience comes from non other than life experience. A child becomes an adult after gaining life experience, right? Well, let children become adults quicker if they want to. Why would the established rules know what is good for me more than my body? When my body desires food, I don't force myself to starve because there might be poison in the food. Same thing here.

But if that is actually the issue, then why not teach sexual awareness in schools next to all the useless stuff we learn? I think there are other reasons, and they're not clear or convincing to me.

8 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

In my country, minors under 16 are allowed what is called "youthful love" if they do it within a 3 year up/down range. From 16 to 18, the situation is loosen unless the person seeking sexual interaction has a sort of authority on them.

This is a bit better than the rest of the world.

[Gesundheit2]

@Etherial Cat Funny thing about schools is that I always hated them. When America invaded Iraq, I was in the 4th grade, so I hoped that they would invade us too just to shut down the schools and give me some freedom. They didn't invade, but we got war eventually after a number of years, and the schools remained.

[Etherial Cat]

2 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Can we say the same thing about education and the schools system, though? Learning is forced onto our minds even when it's against our will from a very young age, and we're told that it's for our good. We keep challenging our minds for over 12 years without a say in the matter. Why is this not considered abuse, both physical and mental? Isn't that a double standard?

 

Since school is mandatory, I would say there is definitely an element of coercion there. There is a constraint on both the child and the parent for it to attend school, under the threat of legal sanction. You are literally forced to attend it physically by the state. But I'd say that claiming physical abuse is occurring in modern school system is really a far stretch.

When it comes to mental abuse, I'd say that for nowadays relative cultural standard the mental abuse occurring is average/within the collective insanity range. There has also been people highlighting how the school system is similar to mass conditioning or factory farming. But in general, providing an education is not abuse. Good schooling is supposed to develop a child's potential, grow its skills, knowledge set and peak its curiosity for the world. Some schools manage to do that very well, like Montessori schools or countries like Finland.

I watched a video by Teal Swan where she stated that childhood is like a prison. And in many way it is true. Since the child doesn't know the world and is not independent, parents (and the rest of society) make the decisions on its behalf for its own welfare until their consent is considered valid. Until the child is old enough to be seen a responsible, what it wants is just mildly taken in consideration.

Regarding sexuality, parents and society protect a child's sexual integrity by refusing any type of consent to be given until the child is old enough for itself to do the consent. It's not a double standard at all. First, sex involves power dynamics well over a child's ability, second sex is physically, mentally and emotionally very invasive, and third sane adults are not sexually attracted to children. There are only damages and no benefit to be found there.

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

This can be said about many adults, too. So is the age a real factor? Especially the legal age, since it's completely made-up. As well, life experience comes from non other than life experience.

You totally got a point here!  And this is why there is such a strong trend in progressive circle to make awareness campaigns about the importance of real, untainted consent in adult sexuality! 

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

But if that is actually the issue, then why not teach sexual awareness in schools next to all the useless stuff we learn? I think there are other reasons, and they're not clear or convincing to me.

We usually do have them in Europe. Not on a regular basis, but there are some dedicated classes from one year to the other on the subject. At least, that's how it was in the place I grew up.

[Thunder Kiss]

13 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I'm not a pedophile, but what if the "child" is down for sex? After all what's the difference between a child and an adult? What if we're hurting the children by not giving them what they want? Seriously, I started wanting to have sex since I was like 10, even before reaching puberty. Maybe not sex exactly, but at least some action with the opposite sex.

I just don't think the legal age is fair. Maybe puberty, I could agree to that. But why should someone wait for 5 years or more to start exploring their sexuality?

you don’t need to have physical sex to explore your sexuality. There is a difference between fantasising about sex, and actually doing the physical act. 
It is true that children have a curiosity around sexuality and experience arousal at very young age. 
I remember my first feelings of arousal around the age of 5 when I was playing with Barbie and Ken, and had created a romantic story between them and making them kiss eachother.  I had orgasmic feelings, didn’t understand what it was, only that it felt warm and fuzzy. 
I also remember being curious about nakedness and would have feelings of excitement and arousal when playing imaginary childhood games that involved any kind of romance.  

I remember us playing a game where I instigated that my sister who was about 7 at the time should be a naked princess wrapped in a blanket and I was a prince coming to rescue her. I was like 9 or something. It was all innocent and imaginary fun, and romance based.  It was never about actual physical sex. 

I used to have sleep orgasms entering puberty and I guess I started realising I could masturbate around age 12.  I didn’t know exactly what I was doing but it was all from imagination and I was exploring my own body, and realising that if I touched certain places that I would be aroused and eventually orgasm.  Although I didn’t know that it was an orgasm at the time. It was one of my secrets, I had found a treasure of how to make myself feel warm and fuzzy inside. Lol. 

Does any of this mean that I would want physical sex with a man? Hell NO. 

Could an adult man have taken advantage and manipulated those feelings, if I was unfortunate to be subjected to an unsafe environment ? Yes.

a man could have made up some romantic story to get me to do stuff with him.  Which is a common theme with child molesters, they use romance and love to get a child to ‘fall in love’ with them.

I certainly didn’t want any physical or penetrative sex with another. 
It was my own private exploration of my own body and feelings, my sexual curiosity to have with myself and myself alone. 

Just because a child has these feelings and thoughts doesn’t mean they are ready mentally or physically for sex. 
let children be children and explore their own bodies without older adults feeling entitled to their bodies.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Thunder Kiss

[Opo]

17 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

but what if the "child" is down for sex? After all what's the difference between a child and an adult? 

We think that children don't understand full ramifications of their words. 

So some pedo could trick a kid to give him consent and then traumatize them. 

7 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Can we say the same thing about education and the schools system, though? Learning is forced onto our minds even when it's against our will from a very young age, and we're told that it's for our good. We keep challenging our minds for over 12 years without a say in the matter. Why is this not considered abuse, both physical and mental?

The real abuse would be letting your child be illiterate in today's world. 

7 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

So is the age a real factor? Especially the legal age, since it's completely made-up.

Just because it's made up doesn't mean that it doesn't have any value. 

Of course because we have to draw a line somewhere there will be examples where it's stupid like a person 10 minutes before they turn 18 won't be any different than when they turn 18 but there's a huge difference between a 13 and an 18 year old. 

We could measure other stuff and make it more accurate but it would also be more complicated. For such a simple metric legal age works pretty good in my opinion. 

Quote

As well, life experience comes from non other than life experience. A child becomes an adult after gaining life experience, right? Well, let children become adults quicker if they want to.

Ironically having wrong types of experiences can retard your growth. 

Apparently a lot of pedophiles were raped themselves and some part of their brains stopped developing and stayed at the age when it happened. That's why they like other people who are at the same mental age. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Opo

[Danioover9000]

@Gesundheit2 @Thunder Kiss

4 hours ago, Thunder Kiss said:

you don’t need to have physical sex to explore your sexuality. There is a difference between fantasising about sex, and actually doing the physical act. 
It is true that children have a curiosity around sexuality and experience arousal at very young age. 
I remember my first feelings of arousal around the age of 5 when I was playing with Barbie and Ken, and had created a romantic story between them and making them kiss eachother.  I had orgasmic feelings, didn’t understand what it was, only that it felt warm and fuzzy. 
I also remember being curious about nakedness and would have feelings of excitement and arousal when playing imaginary childhood games that involved any kind of romance.  

I remember us playing a game where I instigated that my sister who was about 7 at the time should be a naked princess wrapped in a blanket and I was a prince coming to rescue her. I was like 9 or something. It was all innocent and imaginary fun, and romance based.  It was never about actual physical sex. 

I used to have sleep orgasms entering puberty and I guess I started realising I could masturbate around age 12.  I didn’t know exactly what I was doing but it was all from imagination and I was exploring my own body, and realising that if I touched certain places that I would be aroused and eventually orgasm.  Although I didn’t know that it was an orgasm at the time. It was one of my secrets, I had found a treasure of how to make myself feel warm and fuzzy inside. Lol. 

Does any of this mean that I would want physical sex with a man? Hell NO. 

Could an adult man have taken advantage and manipulated those feelings, if I was unfortunate to be subjected to an unsafe environment ? Yes.

a man could have made up some romantic story to get me to do stuff with him.  Which is a common theme with child molesters, they use romance and love to get a child to ‘fall in love’ with them.

I certainly didn’t want any physical or penetrative sex with another. 
It was my own private exploration of my own body and feelings, my sexual curiosity to have with myself and myself alone. 

Just because a child has these feelings and thoughts doesn’t mean they are ready mentally or physically for sex. 
let children be children and explore their own bodies without older adults feeling entitled to their bodies.

   You brought up a good point about how children do explore their own bodies and discover orgasmic experiences in their matrix of feelings. To add to that, some Sexologists share stories of when they were councilling couples who are parents themselves. One story from parents shared how they discovered their child sensually play with their seatbelt. Another, a mother, while reading a bed time story to her daughter, caught her stimulating herself while she red. The mother reprimanded her, but she wanted her to continue reading, but the mother left too upset to continue, and the father later had to tell her that it was not appropriate to do that with other people present. From a biological perspective, I think it's due to their skin being much more sensitive at that age, because the organism is still learning how to survive in its interactions with other entities and the environment, at the same time their brain trying to process information intake from around it, and the ego attaching simple meanings to it's surroundings at that time. This is probably why reality was so magical and vividly real at that age.

   The other point brought up by @Gesundheit2, about children desiring that not just from other children, but from adults, gets a bit tricky. I'll just say that it's very unlikely, but possible, that it could be the case. I also bring up a similar but unrelated point here, and that is children murderers and animal cruelty committed by children. If it's possible for a child, typically early adolescents, to commit a homicide to a younger or same aged child to them and to torture animals at that young of an age, then to me almost anything that is not too complex of an evil is possible for them as well.

[Gesundheit2]

5 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

But I'd say that claiming physical abuse is occurring in modern school system is really a far stretch.

It's not. Forcing yourself to sit still for sessions of at least 30-45 minutes each, 6 sessions everyday, that's almost like serving jail time. You can't talk or express yourself during that time, you're literally silenced, forced to read and write, to lock your mind in the box provided, etc. And then you go home with homework, which can potentially hurt your eyes and create posture-related problems on the long run if you're not careful. Most of this might seem very passive in comparison to other forms of abuse, but I still consider it toxic and hindering of growth. Otherwise, how do you explain the high depression and suicide rates in the modern world even though it's technically a lot better than ever materialistically? It's because we're actually abused.

5 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

But in general, providing an education is not abuse. Good schooling is supposed to develop a child's potential, grow its skills, knowledge set and peak its curiosity for the world.

Not without asking the child. If the child doesn't like school, then it's abuse. Some children actually love studying, and that's great. Make schools for those. Let them do what they love.

5 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

I watched a video by Teal Swan where she stated that childhood is like a prison.

It is because we've made it so.

5 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

And in many way it is true. Since the child doesn't know the world and is not independent, parents (and the rest of society) make the decisions on its behalf for its own welfare until their consent is considered valid. Until the child is old enough to be seen a responsible, what it wants is just mildly taken in consideration.

Regarding sexuality, parents and society protect a child's sexual integrity by refusing any type of consent to be given until the child is old enough for itself to do the consent. It's not a double standard at all. First, sex involves power dynamics well over a child's ability, second sex is physically, mentally and emotionally very invasive, and third sane adults are not sexually attracted to children. There are only damages and no benefit to be found there.

You totally got a point here!  And this is why there is such a strong trend in progressive circle to make awareness campaigns about the importance of real, untainted consent in adult sexuality! 

Maybe if schools didn't exist, children would grow up faster. Think about it. The time we spent studying could have been well spent on building our personality and awareness of the world instead. Just imagine this possibility. After all, the legal age is a modern concept, and our ancestors lived just fine without it.

5 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

We usually do have them in Europe. Not on a regular basis, but there are some dedicated classes from one year to the other on the subject. At least, that's how it was in the place I grew up.

Good, but not good enough.

5 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Sorry to hear you hated school and had to go there in very though circumstances. This is was all madness. You should never had gone through that.

The circumstances weren't tough back then, but school definitely was for me. I don't remember enjoying even in the slightest studying any one particular thing in my entire journey. All of my motivation to study and succeed was based in fear, not 1% of it in love.

[Gesundheit2]

5 hours ago, Thunder Kiss said:

Does any of this mean that I would want physical sex with a man? Hell NO.

I can understand that, but do you think this is symmetrical? I mean, would most male children not want physical sex at 12 years old? I don't think so. If it was allowed, I would bet my testicles that most male children would do it. They don't have to mate with girls of their age, older girls would do.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Gesundheit2]

1 hour ago, Opo said:

We think that children don't understand full ramifications of their words. 

So some pedo could trick a kid to give him consent and then traumatize them. 

This happens with adults all the time.

1 hour ago, Opo said:

The real abuse would be letting your child be illiterate in today's world. 

It depends on what illiterate means.

Do I think learning is essential? Absolutely. And do I think brute forcing information is sometimes good? Absolutely. But do I think schools teach correctly? Absolutely not.

1 hour ago, Opo said:

Just because it's made up doesn't mean that it doesn't have any value. 

Of course because we have to draw a line somewhere there will be examples where it's stupid like a person 10 minutes before they turn 18 won't be any different than when they turn 18 but there's a huge difference between a 13 and an 18 year old. 

It's our society's fault that made 13 year-olds underdeveloped. Even many adults are underdeveloped due to our schooling systems. But feel free to disagree.

1 hour ago, Opo said:

Ironically having wrong types of experiences can retard your growth.

Well, then I guess we should lock our kids in a box forever to prevent them from getting exposed to the world, because it's a dangerous place.

[Opo]

7 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Well, then I guess we should lock our kids in a box forever to prevent them from getting exposed to the world, because it's a dangerous place. 

I agree. 

I was thinking that the boxes should be made from recycled plastic. 

That way we would be saving both the environment and the children. 

It would be cheap and most importantly strong enough so they can't escape and hurt themselves.