How Should Society Handle Pedophiles

[Scholar]

35 minutes ago, Roy said:

Besides it's not even rational the proportion we ostracize pedophiles compared to other sorts of people. In an objective sense, raping or molesting a child isn't as bad as murdering someone. Yet culturally our reactions and behaviors don't correlate to that for some reason.

It is very interesting, because animals basically are very much akin to small children in terms of their cognition, yet we completely accept raping, slaughtering and enslaving them for our own convenience. Imagine we had a child that would most likely die around 15 years of age and would remain stuck in the mind of a 2-3 year old. Imagine if we took millions of these kinds of children and raped and murdered them so that we can eat their corpses or drink some fluids of theirs. In an objective sense, our culture is completely backwards. Being a meat eater for example is in practice causing far more harm, in an objective sense, to child-like beings than most pedophiles cause with their pedophelia, even if they are predators.

 

We treat innocent, child-like beings worse than we treat pedophiles and mass murderers. And we also treat them worse than predators treat children and mass murderers treat their murder victims.

 

35 minutes ago, Roy said:

They are still human beings that while have made mistakes, still deserve our empathy so they can get better and offer their potential to society.

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Scholar

[Roy]

@Scholar I'm not sure exactly what you were getting at, but I'd like you to know I don't eat animals.

Also can you clarify why you crossed out "human" if you don't mind.

[Scholar]

6 minutes ago, Roy said:

@Scholar I'm not sure exactly what you were getting at, but I'd like you to know I don't eat animals.

Also can you clarify why you crossed out "human" if you don't mind.

I crossed out human because it doesn't matter that they are humans, it matters that they are beings, that they are experiencers. That's why we should have compassion for them, not for any other reason. Whether or not they are humans is as relevant as what the color of their skin is.

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Scholar

[Danioover9000]

@Scholar

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

It is very interesting, because animals basically are very much akin to small children in terms of their cognition, yet we completely accept raping, slaughtering and enslaving them for our own convenience. Imagine we had a child that would most likely die around 15 years of age and would remain stuck in the mind of a 2-3 year old. Imagine if we took millions of these kinds of children and raped and murdered them so that we can eat their corpses or drink some fluids of theirs. In an objective sense, our culture is completely backwards. Being a meat eater for example is in practice causing far more harm, in an objective sense, to child-like beings than most pedophiles cause with their pedophelia, even if they are predators.

 

We treat innocent, child-like beings worse than we treat pedophiles and mass murderers. And we also treat them worse than predators treat children and mass murderers treat their murder victims.

 

 

   In an objective sense, animals don't equal human children. So, why are you conflating the suffering of children to animals as if they are the same?

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

I crossed out human because it doesn't matter that they are humans, it matters that they are beings, that they are experiencers. That's why we should have compassion for them, not for any other reason. Whether or not they are humans is as relevant as what the color of their skin is.

 

   So, what's your point, and which point is more valuable in this discussion: pedophilia, animal cruelty, or racism? Keep in mind you are potentially derailing the thread when you bring up irrelevant topics.

[Consept]

6 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

In an objective sense, animals don't equal human children. So, why are you conflating the suffering of children to animals as if they are the same?

The point is fine in that yes you can make the argument that animals suffering is just as important as human suffering, but then the problem with it is that any topic involving human suffering can be dismissed, at least until you sort out the animal suffering issue. If we talk about modern slavery the counter will be "well animals have it worse so...", obviously theres a purpose to talk about human issues regardless. 

[Carl-Richard]

14 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

In an objective sense, animals don't equal human children. So, why are you conflating the suffering of children to animals as if they are the same?

They're the same in the sense that they're mobile flesh bags that whine when you poke them. Here is my non-autistic actually understandable version of "Name the Trait":

1. Name one human trait that animals lack.
2. Take a normal human and remove that trait.
3. Try to rationalize this human's suffering the same way you do with animals.
4. If you can't do 3, repeat points 1-3 until you exhaust all traits.

[Raptorsin7]

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

3. Try to rationalize this human's suffering the same way you do with animals.
4. If you can't do 3, repeat points 1-3 until you exhaust all traits.

Hey, what's the point of repeatedly picking traits if you can't rationalize the suffering of the human without said trait? If you can't rationalize the suffering then isn't the inquiry essentially done?

Am I missing something?

Oh never mind I got it thanks (:

Edited January 5, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Hey, what's the point of repeatedly picking traits if you can't rationalize the suffering of the human without said trait? If you can't rationalize the suffering then isn't the inquiry essentially done?

Am I missing something?

The point is that if you're an anthropocentric sadist that wants to argue why animal suffering is somehow different from human suffering, then you for example say that it's because animals lack the cognitive complexity of humans, then you take a human with the cognitive complexity of an animal (a baby or a mentally disabled person) and realize that you still want to claim that their suffering is different and that your argument is bunk 

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

The point is that if you're an anthropocentric sadist that wants to argue why animal suffering is somehow different from human suffering, then you for example say that it's because animals lack the cognitive complexity of humans, then you take a human with the cognitive complexity of an animal (a baby or a mentally disabled person) and realize that you still want to claim that their suffering is different and that your argument is bunk 

Thanks! It's a great inquiry,  there's no really getting around the fact there's no justification for unnecessary suffering

[Windappreciator]

@Danioover9000

just stop fighting him.

it's all on you danio, the bigger compassion position is always the more right one.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Windappreciator

[Danioover9000]

@Consept

1 hour ago, Consept said:

The point is fine in that yes you can make the argument that animals suffering is just as important as human suffering, but then the problem with it is that any topic involving human suffering can be dismissed, at least until you sort out the animal suffering issue. If we talk about modern slavery the counter will be "well animals have it worse so...", obviously theres a purpose to talk about human issues regardless. 

   It's just that @Scholar was using human instances and behaviors like rape, torture and genocide of humans, but superimposes those qualities onto animal cruelty, when most users here are talking about what and how to properly treat pedophilia, and not about what and how to properly treat the raising of animals. It's just such a out of left field move, that it feels like @Scholar is either distancing himself from the topic of pedophilia, distorting the topic, projecting and leading away to, from his perspective, a more important topic like animal cruelty over pedophilia. And when others point this out, he then retreats by generalizing the suffering instead of children or animals, but to all beings. He's being slippery here though, but that's what I intuit from him.

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

They're the same in the sense that they're mobile flesh bags that whine when you poke them. Here is my non-autistic actually understandable version of "Name the Trait":

1. Name one human trait that animals lack.
2. Take a normal human and remove that trait.
3. Try to rationalize this human's suffering the same way you do with animals.
4. If you can't do 3, repeat points 1-3 until you exhaust all traits.

   There are huge differences between the qualia of humans, to the qualia of animals, which he is trying to make animal cruelty the same as pedophilia. Chickens, dogs, cats, pigs, cows, sheep, lambs, tigers, elephants, WAY more different than human forms. And he brought up and conflated the issues with animal cruelty, and placed it on top of pedophilia, as if he doesn't want to address the topic directly and rather talk about animals, like they are better than children.

[Danioover9000]

@Windappreciator

48 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

@Danioover9000

just stop fighting him.

it's all on you danio, the bigger compassion position is always the more right one.

   I wasn't fighting @Scholar , I was pointing out how he wants to make animal cruelty and pedophilia the same issue. I have the more compassionate position, by pointing out to him his conflation and that there's a distinction.

[Danioover9000]

@Roy

4 hours ago, Roy said:

While punishment for breaking existing laws needs to be handed out, as a society we need to tone down the excessive hate to the point where either pedophiles that have offended or just have thoughts about it, feel like they have the space, resources, and opportunity to get therapy and help for getting past their unfortunate condition.

It's obvious they shouldn't act on their urges for a list of reasons, but that doesn't mean we need to hate them or blame them for having those urges in the first place. I'm sure pedophiles would love to not feel the way they do, there is probably nothing more internally self-destructive than what they feel, because it is at complete odds with how everyone else wants them to behave.

A pedophile likes kids for the same reason I like black haired women with massive tits. It's just an internal urge they ended up having for one reason or another. But ultimately we are complete victims to whatever we end up being attracted to. You don't wake up and decide what you are sexually attracted to, you just see it and it's a subjective fact for you.

Besides it's not even rational the proportion we ostracize pedophiles compared to other sorts of people. In an objective sense, raping or molesting a child isn't as bad as murdering someone. Yet culturally our reactions and behaviors don't correlate to that for some reason.

They are still human beings that while have made mistakes, still deserve our empathy so they can get better and offer their potential to society.

Only an extremely rare but select few like genocidal war criminals or chronic serial killers deserved to be abandoned and given the death penalty imo.

   Good points.

[Windappreciator]

@Danioover9000  that's not what he wants to do

read in-between more.

read self/reflective and not analytical

Edited January 5, 2022 by Windappreciator

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Carl-Richard

   There are huge differences between the qualia of humans, to the qualia of animals

The suffering of a 1-5 year old child, or a mentally disabled person, will be far more similar to an animal like a pig, cow or even a chicken, than the suffering of an adult human. Do you care about the suffering of an adult human more than a child, or less?

[Loba]

I don't know, I've questioned this... I had some friends in the past with this orientation - one was a non offender and one was and offender of adult women.  The offender should have been reprimanded, the other person did nothing and had no plans to.

If someone is born that way and doesn't do anything, why strike first?
Wait until they do something then send them to prison, and also therapy.
The more we demonize the harder it will be for people like that to come forward for treatment.
You don't want to normalize it, but you do want to make it safe for a non offender to seek help in a safe place.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Loba

[Danioover9000]

@Scholar

16 minutes ago, Scholar said:

The suffering of a 1-5 year old child, or a mentally disabled person, will be far more similar to an animal like a pig, cow or even a chicken, than the suffering of an adult human. Do you care about the suffering of an adult human more than a child, or less?

   What do you suggest we do to properly treat pedophilia?

   Do you think that treatment will depend on the culture and society?

   Which treatment do you think will better this issue?

   Do you think that treatment would come down to the individual?

   Do you think that this issue is more psychological than hard wiring? And which treatment is best for which case?

   

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   What do you suggest we do to properly treat pedophilia?

I am not informed on what kind of treatments are effective for pedophiles.

 

3 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Do you think that treatment will depend on the culture and society?

Yes

 

3 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

 Which treatment do you think will better this issue?

I am not informed on the efficacy of different kinds of treatments for pedophiles. From what I have heard, within the subset of pedophiles, it is usually individuals with anti-social disorders that are the problem.

 

9 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Do you think that treatment would come down to the individual?

Yes.

 

9 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

 Do you think that this issue is more psychological than hard wiring? And which treatment is best for which case?

I think it is a combination of both, I am unaware of any treatment that is effective.

 

However, when we are talking about preventing abuse of child-like beings, adopting a vegan life-style and convincing as many people to do so aswell will be the most effective thing to do for any given individual who is not actively involved in solving these issues through other means.

[Windappreciator]

@Scholar something is seriously foul about you