Osho Writes Most People Have Died Almost Directly After Enlightenment

[Esoteric]

http://www.osho.com/iosho/library/read-book/online-library-vipassana-enlightenment-sleeping-1098f342-80b?p=f743a1192270f8faf358954bf6b2a91d

"Most of the enlightened people in the world have died almost immediately after enlightenment - the shock is too much. The body may not be able to take it, unless the body is specially prepared to take it."

Thoughts about that statement? I have never heard of anything like that before. I haven't listened or read Osho much. I know he is respected in some circles while others view him as a spiritual fraud.

[Dodo]

9 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

http://www.osho.com/iosho/library/read-book/online-library-vipassana-enlightenment-sleeping-1098f342-80b?p=f743a1192270f8faf358954bf6b2a91d

"Most of the enlightened people in the world have died almost immediately after enlightenment - the shock is too much. The body may not be able to take it, unless the body is specially prepared to take it."

Thoughts about that statement? I have never heard of anything like that before. I haven't listened or read Osho much. I know he is respected in some circles while others view him as a spiritual fraud.

Well maybe he means it in the sense that there was no more person, therefore dead. The bodymind operating completely on it's own, like a well oiled machine. 

[Esoteric]

1 minute ago, Dodoster said:

Well maybe he means it in the sense that there was no more person, therefore dead. The bodymind operating completely on it's own, like a well oiled machine. 

Well I didn't interpret it as such since in the next paragraph he writes that Mahavira and Buddha were both strong warriors with strong bodies hence didn't physically die from the experience

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

Well I didn't interpret it as such since in the next paragraph he writes that Mahavira and Buddha were both strong warriors with strong bodies hence didn't physically die from the experience

But even then, who really dies, the bodies, not the actual self that they were. So they didn't actually die, but their bodies died. Maybe it's true - but should be irrelevant - one should not be afraid of body death, because one is not the body. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Dodoster

[Deep]

@Esoteric Yes some other yogis such as Ramakrishna have said that you can die during nirvikalpa samadhi if you stay in it longer than 21 days. Someone has to shake you out of the meditation so you can eat and drink. LOL  

I haven't read all of Osho's book so I'm not sure what he's talking about. We don't know if Osho has experienced samadhi or not. I think he is implying that you have to be disciplined to attain enlightenment, which is true. Spirituality is very brutal. 

Some people say samadhi and enlightenment are not the same thing. They say enlightenment is just a shift in awareness. Although the problem with that is it can become a belief. For example, a person can believe that they are God but never experience any higher consciousness to validate that. If we think about, experience is the only thing we have. Even our thoughts are a part of experience. 

Those are just my 2 cents. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Deep
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[Esoteric]

2 minutes ago, Deep said:

@Esoteric Yes some other yogis such as Ramakrishna have said that you can die during nirvikalpa samadhi if you stay in it longer than 21 days. Someone has to shake you out of the meditation so you can eat and drink. LOL  

I haven't read all of Osho's book so I'm not sure what he's talking about. I think he is implying that you have to be disciplined to attain enlightenment, which is true. Spirituality is very brutal. 

Yeah, it makes sense that you can forget your physical needs such as hydration and nutrition. That is what also almost happened to Ramana Maharshi when he went to that mountain after realization.

Osho wrote that it happens like a shock to the body which causes it to die because it physically can't handle it, and also that it happens to "most of the enlightened people". I just found that part really weird.

[AlwaysBeNice]

Mortality rate should be (much) higher for serious practitioners then.

Unless they are all so much less enlightened than the guru(s) claiming this. How fortunate for their teachings. 

[Neo]

"Most of the enlightened people in the world have died almost immediately after enlightenment" < Would make a great movie. Also could explain why a whole bunch of people aren't on this web site. All those people you thought were always complaining about "mental masturbation" have actually all died.

[Prabhaker]

3 hours ago, Esoteric said:

Thoughts about that statement? 

 The phenomenon is not natural; one should say, it is beyond nature. When a phenomenon occurs which is contrary to nature, or which is beyond nature, the entire harmony and adjustment of nature becomes disorderly. A great deal of preparation is needed if one wants to save oneself from such a disorderly state. Various yogasanas and mudras, yoga postures, are very helpful in this respect. In fact all the techniques of Yoga are useful in this direction. So you need an extraordinary body -- an ordinary body won't work. You need your body to be made of steel so that it can withstand an unnatural phenomenon of such great magnitude. 
 

Ramakrishna died with a cancer of the throat, Raman Maharshi died with a cancer. J Krishnamurti suffered almost forty years with the most intense migraine possible. Buddha was often sick, so much so that one of his disciples -- an emperor, Prasenjita -- offered him his own personal physician. For his whole life, King Prasenjita's physician followed Gautam Buddha with a large wagon full of all kinds of medicines, books on medicine, particularly those which might be needed for Buddha. Mahavira continuously suffered from stomach troubles and finally died from the same troubles.

Very few people survive enlightenment, and the reason why these people survive is strange: people who have been adventurous, people who have enjoyed taking risks, who have lived like a tightrope walker, whose lives have been on a razor's edge, may survive. The shock will be there, but they are accustomed to smaller shocks. They have never had such a big shock, but smaller shocks have prepared them to accept even this enormous phenomenon. They still continue to breathe; their heart still continues to beat. But still the body suffers in many ways because something has happened that the body cannot understand.

4 hours ago, Esoteric said:

I have never heard of anything like that before.

No scripture of the world discusses it. The question of discussion does not even arise -- no scripture even mentions it, and it has been happening for centuries. Perhaps they were afraid that if they say it... People are already not interested in enlightenment, and if you tell them that this is going to be the reward -- that you become enlightened and your fuse goes off -- this may prevent even those few who might try. They will say, "What nonsense it is. You work hard to attain enlightenment and what do you get as a reward? -- that you are finished! You are not even going to see yourself enlightened. So what is the point? It is a strange game.

 

[Esoteric]

32 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

 The phenomenon is not natural; one should say, it is beyond nature. When a phenomenon occurs which is contrary to nature, or which is beyond nature, the entire harmony and adjustment of nature becomes disorderly. A great deal of preparation is needed if one wants to save oneself from such a disorderly state. Various yogasanas and mudras, yoga postures, are very helpful in this respect. In fact all the techniques of Yoga are useful in this direction. So you need an extraordinary body -- an ordinary body won't work. You need your body to be made of steel so that it can withstand an unnatural phenomenon of such great magnitude. 
 

Ramakrishna died with a cancer of the throat, Raman Maharshi died with a cancer. J Krishnamurti suffered almost forty years with the most intense migraine possible. Buddha was often sick, so much so that one of his disciples -- an emperor, Prasenjita -- offered him his own personal physician. For his whole life, King Prasenjita's physician followed Gautam Buddha with a large wagon full of all kinds of medicines, books on medicine, particularly those which might be needed for Buddha. Mahavira continuously suffered from stomach troubles and finally died from the same troubles.

Very few people survive enlightenment, and the reason why these people survive is strange: people who have been adventurous, people who have enjoyed taking risks, who have lived like a tightrope walker, whose lives have been on a razor's edge, may survive. The shock will be there, but they are accustomed to smaller shocks. They have never had such a big shock, but smaller shocks have prepared them to accept even this enormous phenomenon. They still continue to breathe; their heart still continues to beat. But still the body suffers in many ways because something has happened that the body cannot understand.

No scripture of the world discusses it. The question of discussion does not even arise -- no scripture even mentions it, and it has been happening for centuries. Perhaps they were afraid that if they say it... People are already not interested in enlightenment, and if you tell them that this is going to be the reward -- that you become enlightened and your fuse goes off -- this may prevent even those few who might try. They will say, "What nonsense it is. You work hard to attain enlightenment and what do you get as a reward? -- that you are finished! You are not even going to see yourself enlightened. So what is the point? It is a strange game.

 

Yeah Ramana died of cancer, but then most people die of cancer when they get old. You have no foundation to say it was realization that caused it in him or any other sage who has died. Ramana was still 70 when he died, and was realized at age 16. Maharaj was 84. They grew to be pretty old. And even if the Buddha was often sick (who the hell knows), and Mahavira had stomach aches, how can you make the claim that it is because of realization? You have presented no reason whatsoever that make that assumption. People get sick, no matter what awareness they have attained.

And looking at modern sages/teachers like Spira, Mooji, Ralston, Young they come off as healthy and vibrant, and some of them are getting up there in age.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Esoteric
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[Esoteric]

@Prabhaker Also Oshi's claim was that most of the enlightened people in the world have died almost immediately after enlightenment

[Prabhaker]

27 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

Ramana died of cancer, but then most people die of cancer when they get old.

No, cancer doesn't kill most of the people when they grow old.

27 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

And looking at modern sages/teachers like Spira, Mooji, Ralston, Young they come off as healthy and vibrant, and some of them are getting up there in age.

Most of the spiritual teachers are not fully enlightened. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Prabhaker

[Esoteric]

1 minute ago, Prabhaker said:

No, cancer doesn't kill most of the people when they grow old. 

Well a significant amount. Just looking at my family, a huge majority of the elders have died from cancer. The point was how you can make the assumption that being fully realized eventually caused the cancer?

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, Esoteric said:

The point was how you can make the assumption that being fully realized eventually caused the cancer?

Cancer is not the only cause. Great India mystic Vivekananda died at age of thirty-nine, not due to cancer. Enlightenment certainly disturbs much psychosomatic health, because it is something for which the body is not ready or prepared. Nature has not built in anything in the body so that enlightenment can be absorbed.

Mystics are not ordinary people, they have extraordinary health, still few survive full enlightenment, or save their brain.  

[Kserkkj]

@Prabhaker I thought enlightenment relieves you of much of your emotional baggage and mental illness. Wouldn't that be very beneficial for the body-mind complex? I'm assuming that enlightenment works like a double edged sword; if you survive the "tribulation", you breakthrough, and if you don't, the result is your body being fried due to lack of foundational work? Your thoughts on this?

Edited January 5, 2017 by Kserkkj

[Prabhaker]

23 minutes ago, Kserkkj said:

So how can i forge my body to withstand enlightenment and counteract those side effects?

Full enlightenment is very rare phenomenon, your body is  going to die whether you are enlightened or not. When you grow spiritually you will find death is an illusion. 

Still if want to prepare body --- yoga, martial arts, Osho dynamic meditation helps in preparing the body. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Prabhaker

[Prabhaker]

15 minutes ago, Kserkkj said:

I thought enlightenment relieves you of much of your emotional baggage and mental illness.

Preparation of enlightenment relieves, but if you want to be fully enlightened, you have to die a psychological death, if not a physical death. 

[Leo Gura]

Red herring!

Go work on enlightenment.

If you happen to die getting enlightened, we promise to shed a tear for you

[eskwire]

Osho may be speaking of legends. He was very much a storyteller and a comedian. He said many contradictory and odd things. I saw a video of one of the talks he gave at his commune and it was basically Osho's HBO stand-up special. He just cracked jokes for an hour. 

This is not to suggest that he is spiritually fraudulent. He may or may not be. He shared a lot of wisdom. He is just not completely serious or to be taken at face value alone. 

[Prabhaker]

3 minutes ago, eskwire said:

He is just not completely serious or to be taken at face value alone. 

Osho was not a serious man but it is not necessary that your body will die after enlightenment but unless you are ready to die you cannot be reborn. Unless you are ready to welcome death, know well that you have missed life.  Unless you are ready to sacrifice life to it, unless you are ready to die completely as you have been up to now, you are not prepared for enlightenment.