Elon Musk explaining why “billionaires should not be taxed”

[captainamerica]

13 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Patronizing tone means condescending, looking from above, schooling.

I do not mean to be condescending, communication is hard for me, my brain is wired that way. I think I am on the spectrum but we did not have the money to see experts have tests, experts and all when I was growing up. It is hard to confirm that exactly now. I also had to try to learn to walk properly after the age of 20. My brain changes the posture, can't show it. Started the training a little bit after 20 I mean, it is time-consuming so not focusing on it to be clear.  Are you happy now?

I try my best after lots and lots of practice. 

13 minutes ago, tsuki said:

and talking about me to other people as if I weren't here.

I am not talking about you friend. I promise. I am stating a couple of things about Systems Thinking unrelated to you. This is a common trend, not saying about you I promise. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by captainamerica

[HypnoticMagician]

Instead, he should have explained why intelligent people should not be taxed. There are a lot of retarded billionaires who are nothing more than parasites.

Edited January 2, 2022 by HypnoticMagician

[captainamerica]

26 minutes ago, tsuki said:

If you disagree with my post, address the points instead of dismissively saying "it's more complicated", listing 50 things that I missed without elaboration, and talking about me to other people as if I weren't here.

I have elaborated to a medium degree, it is given above. It is not without elaboration. 

Not possible to elaborate completely here. 

Your profile says you live in Poland. May I please ask why are you so interested in American Politics? Do you have any candidates you like? I like Andrew Yang. 

Poland does not really face the exact same issues. The Gini coefficient or wealth inequality in Poland is 30 whereas in America it is about 50. The difference is not of mere 20 points it is like 30 points since it is non-linear, just to be clear about this. It cannot really go a lot less in Poland as this is about the physical limit. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by captainamerica

[tsuki]

17 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

I do not mean to be condescending, communication is hard for me, my brain is wired that way. I think I am on the spectrum but we did not have the money to see experts have tests, experts and all when I was growing up. It is hard to confirm that exactly now. I also had to try to learn to walk properly after the age of 20. My brain changes the posture, can't show it. Started the training a little bit after 20 I mean, it is time-consuming so not focusing on it to be clear.  Are you happy now?

I try my best after lots and lots of practice. 

How is it then that you claim to have understood psychology to a degree that allows you to predict evolution of whole societies? Your own psychology is so particular that you can't have a productive conversation.

Is this an intellectual endeavor for you? This is not stage yellow thinking in the slightest.

[captainamerica]

11 minutes ago, tsuki said:

How is it then that you claim to have understood psychology to a degree that allows you to predict evolution of whole societies? Your own psychology is so particular that you can't have a productive conversation.

 

Those are not mutually exclusive. Not sure why you say that if you actually understand Psychology.  Plus your framing is incorrect. I never said that. 

I have plenty of productive conversations. You have an attachment to your ideology it is clear. I have analyzed this pattern hundreds of times. Heck I have even chatted up with business leaders and Scientists. It is difficult but I think you are exaggerating for your personal bias because as I have said above that a medium elaboration is given, you can understand it if you really want to. 

Like Some people want communism, I say why it is not possible. They start blaming my psychology. Happened before. So much for "compassionate people who want the good of all". 

11 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Is this an intellectual endeavor for you? This is not stage yellow thinking in the slightest.

I don't have much care for the labels.

If you answer why are you in American politics I can share my motivation.

If you are not interested in talking, just blaming, then please don't talk. Not that hard of a choice. 

19 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

Your profile says you live in Poland. May I please ask why are you so interested in American Politics? Do you have any candidates you like? I like Andrew Yang. 

Poland does not really face the exact same issues. The Gini coefficient or wealth inequality in Poland is 30 whereas in America it is about 50. The difference is not of mere 20 points it is like 30 points since it is non-linear, just to be clear about this. It cannot really go a lot less in Poland as this is about the physical limit.

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by captainamerica

[tsuki]

30 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

Those are not mutually exclusive. Not sure why you say that if you actually understand Psychology. 

Of course they are. Understanding is not an intellectual endeavor. Being able to follow what is written in a book is not understanding psychology.

30 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

Like Some people want communism, I say why it is not possible. They start blaming my psychology. Happened before. So much for "compassionate people who want the good of all". 

Yep, keep talking to your past experiences instead of me. I'm just a green hippy, not worth paying attention to. You already know what I have to say right? And what you think is too complicated to express, so why bother.

Weird that I was able to sense your particularities over the internet without prior knowledge of who you are. It's probably because ALL green hippies do is whine about your psychology. No need to pay attention.

Since I'm now mocking you openly, I think that this conversation is over. There is no chance to arrive at any consensus and I'd rather enjoy the rest of the evening in peace.

Edited January 2, 2022 by tsuki

[captainamerica]

22 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Of course they are. Understanding is not an intellectual endeavor. Being able to follow what is written in a book is not understanding psychology.

Yep, keep talking to your past experiences instead of me. I'm just a green hippy, not worth paying attention to. You already know what I have to say right? And what you think is too complicated to express, so why bother.

Weird that I was able to sense your particularities over the internet without prior knowledge of who you are. It's probably because ALL green hippies do is whine about your psychology. No need to pay attention.

Since I'm now mocking you openly, I think that this conversation is over. There is no chance to arrive at any consensus and I'd rather enjoy the rest of the evening in peace.

You are projecting. 

Check what I have posted above again, please.

 

22 minutes ago, tsuki said:

  38 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

Like Some people want communism, I say why it is not possible. They start blaming my psychology. Happened before. So much for "compassionate people who want the good of all". 

There is a greater point.

These people cannot even handle a conversation. When something unexpected happens all they have is an anxious and fear-based rash response. You can see them fidgeting and unable to handle a situation. It just falls apart. Not just in conversations but in numerous other things as well.

Yet when they talk about their grand fancy theories they are so confident. We talk to them about History or other ways to see it and where it can go wrong against the greater good they are like "we will handle it" or some other grand theory. They basically say "we will handle it", ""we will find a way  when it happens" etc.  

Yet almost every single time I have seen they cannot even handle one conversation with competence and confidence when something unexpected happens. Why should we trust them and take them on their word that they got it or they can handle the numerous unexpected complexities of the real world? 

They cannot sense the simple opportunities for Compassion on the fly, how can they manage the real world which is so complex? 

Edited January 2, 2022 by captainamerica

[captainamerica]

1 hour ago, captainamerica said:

You are projecting. 

Check what I have posted above again, please.

 

There is a greater point.

These people cannot even handle a conversation. When something unexpected happens all they have is an anxious and fear-based rash response. You can see them fidgeting and unable to handle a situation. It just falls apart. Not just in conversations but in numerous other things as well.

Yet when they talk about their grand fancy theories they are so confident. We talk to them about History or other ways to see it and where it can go wrong against the greater good they are like "we will handle it" or some other grand theory. They basically say "we will handle it", ""we will find a way  when it happens" etc.  

Yet almost every single time I have seen they cannot even handle one conversation with competence and confidence when something unexpected happens. Why should we trust them and take them on their word that they got it or they can handle the numerous unexpected complexities of the real world? 

They cannot sense the simple opportunities for Compassion on the fly, how can they manage the real world which is so complex? 

Another example of it is Elon Musk.

It is known that Elon Musk has Asperger's Syndrome. One of the highest degrees of it. 

Yet people who knew this said, "oh the whole life of Musk is built around his Ego" along those lines, in different phrases but same thing. 

Do you know how hard it is to even survive with Asperger's, life gets unimaginably difficult and along with very difficult chronic negative states of Mind. 

It is not just about Elon Musk. This is a consistent pattern. We cannot believe that people who behave in this manner are an embodiment of compassion.  

[Raptorsin7]

@captainamerica Are you the alternative timeline captain America that joined hydra?

Jk 

[captainamerica]

3 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@captainamerica Are you the alternative timeline captain America that joined hydra?

Why so? 

Edited January 2, 2022 by captainamerica

[Raptorsin7]

@captainamerica I'm in agreement with your views, but I think given you're going against the consensus on the forum people will dislike you/ your views. So I thought it was fitting.

[captainamerica]

8 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@captainamerica Are you the alternative timeline captain America that joined hydra?

Jk 

Yes.

 

[Raptorsin7]

@captainamerica Hail hydra 

[tsuki]

51 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

 

51 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

Another example of it is Elon Musk.

It is known that Elon Musk has Asperger's Syndrome. One of the highest degrees of it. 

Yet people who knew this said, "oh the whole life of Musk is built around his Ego" along those lines, in different phrases but same thing. 

I am not being sarcastic here and I am not mocking you anymore. I can see why would you defend Elon so much since you two are so similar. I would actually love to hear more about this.

51 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

Do you know how hard it is to even survive with Asperger's, life gets unimaginably difficult and along with very difficult chronic negative states of Mind. 

I'm not on the spectrum and I will not pretend that I know how hard it is for you. But I know perfectly well how it feels when someone pretends to look straight through you when he has no clue what he's talking about, like you were just now.

51 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

It is not just about Elon Musk. This is a consistent pattern. We cannot believe that people who behave in this manner are an embodiment of compassion.  

That is because we can't communicate properly when we assume that we know what happens in another person's mind. 

You cannot do good for others if you don't know what they want. This knowing does not come from intellectualizing, but from actual listening. When there is no listening and communication, this is not empathy, but tyranny.

This is the practical understanding of psychology that cannot be read from a book.

Full discaimer here: I reacted so strongly because I'm starting a new job tomorrow and it actually requires understanding of psychology and systems thinking. These two areas are actually something I've been studying and using for many years. Having a random stranger deny everything I've been working for was too much for me today.

The fact that you are on a spectrum explains a lot about our miscommunication, and why you had difficulty understand my reception of what you were saying. 

I'm sorry that I offended you and someone you respect.

Edited January 2, 2022 by tsuki

[captainamerica]

12 hours ago, tsuki said:

I can see why would you defend Elon so much since you two are so similar.

That is not the reason. It is not defending Elon.

Progressives strawman so much it becomes hard to talk to people brainwashed by them.

For eg., they say Elon Musk should pay more taxes. Or Jeff Bezos should pay more taxes.

After they repeat this emotional line so much they try to make tax policy for the whole spectrum of the economy, but people now have been brainwashed due to emotional repetition do not debate. Since day 1 in this case the Progressives knew that it is not possible to write Legislation just for Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. The debates we do is about the collective effect of tax policy for eg. But their emotional brainwashing makes their voters feel "oh Elon Musk should pay more taxes" and in that the Progressives write legislation for all of the businesses, their leaders etc. 

Bernie Sanders once defended terrorists in Kashmir for his ideology. But they transcend the need for debate only by their emotional manipulation of the masses. The cognitive dissonance with them is huge. 

https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/bernie-sanders-ignorant-comments-on-kashmir-rebuttal/

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/bernie-sanders-rebukes-india-over-kashmir-move/articleshow/70938016.cms

https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/bernie-sanders-took-pro-jihad-stance-on-kashmir-at-an-event-organized-by-isna-an-organisation-with-close-ties-to-terror-groups/

12 hours ago, tsuki said:

I'm not on the spectrum and I will not pretend that I know how hard it is for you. But I know perfectly well how it feels when someone pretends to look straight through you when he has no clue what he's talking about, like you were just now.

13 hours ago, captainamerica said:

I did not look through you.

You started saying Stop Patronizing Me, Back off. Stop Patronizing Me Back Off, Multiple times. 

So I backed off. 

12 hours ago, tsuki said:

That is because we can't communicate properly when we assume that we know what happens in another person's mind. 

You cannot do good for others if you don't know what they want. This knowing does not come from intellectualizing, but from actual listening. When there is no listening and communication, this is not empathy, but tyranny.

This is the practical understanding of psychology that cannot be read from a book.

Full discaimer here: I reacted so strongly because I'm starting a new job tomorrow and it actually requires understanding of psychology and systems thinking. These two areas are actually something I've been studying and using for many years. Having a random stranger deny everything I've been working for was too much for me today.

I disagree.

First, I started reacting after you started saying Back Off, Stop Patronizing me.... . You may kindly check the above. I was looking to talk and discuss it properly before. If you had not said that I was planning to continue the discussion. After that in my opinion there was no point. It was not a communication issue on my part. Patronizing means to "appear kind or helpful and supportive condescending" There is an element of faking kindness and help. So you said stop patronizing and back off. No point in communication after that. 

Second, The feedback loops and incentives are not analyzed like done by you. This is not a personal attack. When you asked about them I did give a medium-level elaboration. I was looking to discuss it more but after you said Back off, I am Patronizing .... then there was no point. 

12 hours ago, tsuki said:

The fact that you are on a spectrum explains a lot about our miscommunication, and why you had difficulty understand my reception of what you were saying. 

I disagree, as I have said above. I was looking to discuss it further. I do not think there was a point after that though. 

12 hours ago, tsuki said:

I'm sorry that I offended you and someone you respect.

Likewise, the point is not to hurt you. 

As for hurting someone I respect, that is not the point. There is a greater point, I have given an example for it above. I will give one more example for the same. People from different countries(on this forum included, but common on Social Media in general) talk about American politics as if they know the daily challenges of Americans and how they are created. Less than one percent of such people actually bother to understand the challenges people in the US are facing. There are two choices 1. Do not talk about American Politics. 2. Give the few hundred hours of work required to understand the specific challenges of the American people. How is it that compassionate people cannot make either one of the choices? There is cognitive dissonance and it has a cost to people. 

There is a huge difference in decision making in the following two groups:

Group 1: A person's son or daughter or mother or father in this group may get seriously hurt by that decision. 10 years down the line if he loses his job he may have to cry helplessly alone or worse in front of his or her daughter. Or after retirement, he may suffer miserably and bear the neglect. 

Group 2: They don't live in America or have at least not done the work as discussed. When they talk about American politics confidently, people vote for it and something wrong happens 10 years down the line an avg. person in this group will just ignore it due to the cognitive dissonance and blame it or maybe say to themselves "I was just trying to help. ". Well.

There is a huge difference in the dynamics of how these two groups make decisions and look at American Politics. When someone has to bear the cost of the outcome the people think completely differently then. You say to an outsider about how American problems like Money printing can combine with something like misinformed tax policy and hurt them most of the time they basically get back to their own point "capitalism bad and this and that..." It is not about you this is the case most people from other countries discuss American Politics. Whereas you discuss this with an American, regardless of them being on the Left or the Right, they generally wanna at least consider it before they give their opinions and decisions as it will come back at them. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by captainamerica

[captainamerica]

Looking back I don't really think it was condescending for the most part.

Writing in words lacks the depth of body language, tonality, etc. so naturally, there are miscommunications like this in text communication. This happens all the time nothing new when you are texting or communicating online, you could have said nicely.

You may have also conflated a matter-of-fact tone in some places to be a condescending tone.

Edited January 3, 2022 by captainamerica

[happyhappy]

On 1/1/2022 at 8:39 PM, Bob Seeker said:

https://youtube.com/shorts/2CvtZoTTXeE?feature=share
 

very short clip, couldn’t embed it.

 

 

Elon Musk is deified these days by teenage aspiring entrepreneurs.  

lol.. we will see how the show unfolds!

[Roy]

In a logical sense, Elon is right to a degree and I think people are a bit too harsh with him. The issue is billionaires will always think they know what capitol allocation is best 100% of the time, and are too fundamentally selfish to know the moments when they should give it up. It's about smoothing things out, not giving all money to either him or the government.

The problem really isn't rich people in my opinion. Everyone wants to be rich, and if you get rich it's usually because you helped a ton of people. The abuse and rigging usually happens after the fact.

It's that the tax systems are completely non-sensical and don't scale the way we need them to. People at the very bottom or close to it shouldn't even be paying 10%, they should be paying next to ZERO until they get on their feet, which they need to the most capitol for than anybody else.

[captainamerica]

14 hours ago, tsuki said:

I can see why would you defend Elon so much

 

19 hours ago, captainamerica said:

Yup.

Also, look at how Progressives brainwash innocent people. Elon Musk is talking about Systems thinking and outcomes and has also highlighted problems like Debt in the past. That goes hand in hand with the Money Printing problem in the US. Yet progressives strawmanned it into he is complaining, manipulating, worrying etc. He is highlighting very correct Systemic problems and phenomenons which will help all.  

I read one Progressive Journalist/Propagandist he said that "the best part of printing a trillion-dollar coin in America is that it is funny, the worst part is that it is funny so people do not take it seriously". The Progressives on the one hand brainwash people with this nonsense on one hand and on another side a person who is highlighting systemic issues correctly is straw manned as well. If not he then with their narratives like rich people are miserable(TYT) , Rich People are evil etc. majority of the competent people are straw manned, giving progressive politicians the power. They play great games.

[captainamerica]

38 minutes ago, Roy said:

15 minutes ago, Roy said:

It's that the tax systems are completely non-sensical and don't scale the way we need them to. People at the very bottom or close to it shouldn't even be paying 10%, they should be paying next to ZERO until they get on their feet, which they need to the most capitol for than anybody else.

I agree. 

38 minutes ago, Roy said:

16 minutes ago, Roy said:

The problem really isn't rich people in my opinion. Everyone wants to be rich, and if you get rich it's usually because you helped a ton of people. The abuse and rigging usually happens after the fact.

The majority of the Rigging happens by industry an Avg. person does not even know about.

Progressives project and propagandize that everyone is like this.

23 hours ago, captainamerica said:

There are many others like Elon Musk who are not popular with the general public. You would have to make an in-depth study to understand this. At least a majority of them have information publicly accessible.  

In fact, such people are a majority in the wealthier sections of society. If you are an insider you will find that majority of them are working in some or other positive and harmonious manner.

This is another strawman of the progressives to say all rich people are evil or they don't care or something along those lines. Some will consider me an "insider" on these trends. I can tell with confidence that in most industries people are not like this. The majority of the rich people are not like this.

Very few people know this but most of the evil and corrupted things people talk about are done by a small group of people on in Management Consultancy and Wall St.  Most people don't know a single thing about them, and they are not tech entrepreneurs or some other revolutionary in some other field. I am almost an insider on this trend and can confirm that majority of such people are millionaires not even Billionaires. And you know what practically all of these things are enabled by systemic loopholes and mismanagement. Not wealth. Banning Billionaires will create a minuscule difference in corruption for those who truly understand this. You would have to ban most millionaires too if go by such an unnuanced approach, but that will hurt people again. So there are two options now. You have to ban any wealth at all and hurt many people or make proper systemic changes. The latter seems much more reasonable. 

 

 

 

The real evil people are so smart you cannot even know their names even if you tried with the common approaches, let alone anything else about them. The information is not publicly accessbile. You would have to be in the field basically. Naive people here fighting with the public figures because of propaganda, I almost smile at times it is so naive. 

 

38 minutes ago, Roy said:

In a logical sense, Elon is right to a degree and I think people are a bit too harsh with him. The issue is billionaires will always think they know what capitol allocation is best 100% of the time, and are too fundamentally selfish to know the moments when they should give it up. It's about smoothing things out, not giving all money to either him or the government.

 

I agree. We will sort out some sane approaches for the good of all. For the greater good. 

I don't agree with the paradigm that money is given to him. That paradigm requires a Tier 2 civilization basically. In Tier 1 people manipulate and abuse it. They even go to the lengths of denying an inventor his own invention, stage green cannot handle this as well. There are at least 10-20 manipulations that can be observed in this direction. It is a general trend not exclusive to Billionaires. A better paradigm is he sold these many products and earned like 10-15 cents on the dollar per product. Or people started buying shares in his company. Customers purchased his products, nobody gave him the money. Two different things.

Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Mark Cuban, etc. have talked about how they want to be taxed and have limited govt. He did say he is for taxation. But not like the progressives, that will not benefit. In fact, 50 percent of Billionaires are on the economic left. This is a general trend as well. Throughout history when times get tough people even on the top are 50/50 divided with left and the right. People think it is 100 percent of the top against the general populace. But it is 50/50 divide just like the general populace. Mark Cuban talking to friends of some progressive politicians said it is a good idea to have higher taxes on Billionaires, it happened about 1-2 years ago I believe. He then asked what are the details like what will happen when the stock goes down after the capital gains have been collected beforehand, they said we have not discussed or thought of details. They basically said currently the idea is for marketing. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by captainamerica