How Can You Possibly Know If Others Exist

[Thought Art]

Well, I've experienced what seemed to be the realization that only I exist. 

But, I am not sure.

 I I I I I 

Whether sure or not sure or whatever. Here I am.

Imagining all of you.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Thought Art

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, RMQualtrough said:

 There is something to be discovered within that but it's not like you just suddenly know everything like the answer to questions like that.

 

This is false.  You will find omniscience in this collapse.

3 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

 

Some aspects of proclaimed "truth" could easily be pure delusional psychosis from drugs (or from any altered state).

Perhaps  - but perhaps not.  Perhapse you should explore all possibilities 

 

[RMQualtrough]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

This is false.  You will find omniscience in this collapse.

Perhaps  - but perhaps not.  Perhapse you should explore all possibilities 

It isn't false. I know what these experiences are I've been through them many times. There are a few very intense and definitively true revelations which are absolutely not delusion and could not possibly be delusion... "Absolute truths", not anything which could be one way or another... These absolute truths can be listed.

The other claims or "revelations" could be drug delusion easily. Some dude here thinks he's an interdimensional angel messenger for Jesus because a drug convinced him?

Omniscience is found through logical inquiry moreso. Ideas of "other people" are not present during trips, let alone knowledge of seeing through them etc.

[Inliytened1]

@RMQualtrough and what are these Absolute Truths that you have become conscious of and can list?  Based on our previous conversations i respect your points and dialogue so I ask with sincerity...   And then what are those that you think you cannot also become directly conscious of?   Have you considered the possibility that maybe you can know these answers as well?

 

[Thought Art]

First time I realized nothing and that I don't even exist 

Collapsing of all dualities

God. Love. Perfection. Forever. OH yeah. I remember...

But then, I come back. Hmmm, how to integrate what that was?

Edited January 2, 2022 by Thought Art

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

@RMQualtrough and what are these Absolute Truths that you have become conscious of and can list?  Based on our previous conversations i respect your points and dialogue so I ask with sincerity...   And then what are those that you think you cannot also become directly conscious of?   Have you considered the possibility that maybe you can know these answers as well?

I'll list some things:

1. Awareness has no spatial dimension.

2. All that has ever been known is the mind. Both subject and object are just mind. Or maybe you would say all that is ever known is perceiving. Something like that, same meaning.

3. Awareness never leaves "now" and never leaves "here"... Now and here, what those are, doesn't change. Moments move through now if anything, space moves through here, from the PoV of awareness.

4. If all form was theoretically removed from awareness, what would be left is nothing. "Pure" formless awareness is nothing. This may also be "emptiness".

...

Other things would be thoughts etc. Those are experiential certainties. An experiential certainty of omniscience, I mean I've heard people call it an unpassable door. You're never going to come back from a trip and be able to list that week's lottery numbers, or be able to describe the decor in my bedroom.

"I" can describe the decor, and "I" am reading this post on your screen, so I see that in one sense "I" am omniscient. But neither of us could just smoke some drugs/meditate and then one of us describes the other's bedroom on a post from the other end.

Edited January 2, 2022 by RMQualtrough

[Loba]

I have experienced the bubbles, and will get back to you on this tomorrow night with a detailed responce.  I have a few I need to go through; there are bubbles.  It is like bubbles in carbonation.  All the same soda, but with popping bubbles within.

[Inliytened1]

@RMQualtrough those realizations are good.   In terms of other certainties,  in a non-dual state  yes it is true that you would not know the lottery numbers because as Infinity lottery numbers would  have no relevance or existence .  But you could have a complete understanding of yourself - or understanding of reality.  Since you and reality are one and the same.  And since you are - the best way to start is via self inquiry meditation.   A realization of no self can go a long way here.   It's a fundamental facet of awakening to realize that you are awareness itself.  In all of our dualistic notions of awareness we still see ourselves separate from it.  And to talk about it is to have someone that talks (a subject) about awareness (the object) but of course through self inquiry you can collapse this and become awareness itself.  

The reason I stress self inquiry over just taking psychedelics is that this will hit a particular and key facet- which is the discovery that the self is an illusion.  This is paramount in then becoming conscious of what you are as awareness and then opening the flood gates to additional realizations 

[RMQualtrough]

@Inliytened1 When I think back on prominent experiences, I don't recall them too well, but I know one was a dissociation of all things from what would be "pure" awareness. And I think that one showed the fact of no self, because all of "me" was just an object, and the object was just something appearing to pure awareness. That pure awareness when dissociated from all appearances was literally nothing.

I recall a "jester" pointing into the foreground of my mind at "me", and it became then keenly obvious that awareness was what I WAS, and it was impossible to get behind and look at what I was like trying to use your eyes to see your eyes, etc.

Other experiences removed the attachment of awareness from any boundary. An out of body experience as awareness no longer bounded itself by the brain trick which makes it feel as though it is contained within some small aspect of "being" like the shape of my body, as opposed to the entire production of mind (which any hardcore scientist would readily state is the only way through which we experience the world), and it just encompassed everything, and then there was just perceiving. Just mind.

Both experiences were equally valid but presented the facts in two different ways, as pure awareness = subject and its contents = objects. And also as just experiencing/mind as a singular unit... An experience of emptiness, and the experience of unity as mind.

[Javfly33]

17 hours ago, Someone here said:

You need to realize that no matter what you experience, others are ALWAYS IMAGINARY. "Other" cannot exist as anything other than imagination. If it does exist as something other than imagination, then it is not what you call "other" anymore. You can't have any experience of "other" if it isn't imagination. 

Even if we assume that there are multiple experiences happening right now, "others" will always be imaginary in those experiences, because it cannot exist as anything else. 

When you say that you want others to be "real", you're completely disregarding how the existence of others work. "Other" needs to be imagination, that's as real as it will ever get. 

If you were God, how exactly would you prove to yourself that others exist? What would evidence that others exist look like?

 

Nice ???

[BipolarGrowth]

8 hours ago, OBEler said:

Right now I as awareness experience my bubble. Do you mean the awareness right now can just experience my bubble and not yours, because there cannot be two awareness? This would mean if awareness wants to experience your bubble, my bubble needs to end? Like linear switching from one bubble to the next?

 

I dont get it, why cannot every bubble be contained in one awareness? So that this awareness experiences all bubbles simultaneously? Why it can just experience one bubble at this very moment

I think you misunderstood. To be said simply, it’s one awareness always, usually one bubble, and multiple bubbles are possible as a direct experience for a rather limited number of people with highly developed abilities when in crazy high states. 

[SQAAD]

@Nahm

21 hours ago, Nahm said:

There is no actuality of nonexistence. Unicorns not existing isn’t a belief. 

Thoughts will not do, as there can be thoughts of what does and doesn’t exist. 

The point, what stands to be acknowledged, is the duality of thoughts, and the believing the thoughts, is not the path to truth, but is rumination. Change occurs in putting how you feel, well above what you think or believe. In regard to the truth, it is the same. One puts the path to the truth well above what one thinks & believes. 

 

 

If I were to say that there are no elephants in my room that would not be a belief if there are no actual elephants in my room. 

But it is different if I were to say that there are no elephants in the entire universe. That would be a belief. 

Either you believe others exist or not is a belief. How could you possibly ever verify it and know such a thing? It seems like an impossibility. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by SQAAD

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, SQAAD said:

@Nahm

Either you believe others exist or not is a belief. How could you possibly ever verify it and know such a thing? It seems like an impossibility. 

A belief is a thought assumed to be true. There is believing or not, the thoughts. Thoughts can be believed such that it is believed you are an object, a ‘separate self’, and that there is a universe that you, rooms, and elephants are in.