How Can You Possibly Know If Others Exist

[Nahm]

The spheres (thoughts about) are just like the rumination and the unicorn. To equate what is actual with delusion does not stand to clarify or bring about any understanding. It only misleads via thought attachment, followed by second and third person hearsay of conjecture, aiding in spreading it more deeply and broadly.

To recognize anything in experiential terms, it is helpful to label yet not per se to believe the label is indicative of any individual. In that sense spiritual ego is spiritual ego. Misleading is misleading. Conjecture is conjecture. Thought attachment is thought attachment, and regardless of any arising thought, it will remain actual, and what is actual can always be denied. 

‘Bubble(s)’ is inherently solipsistic spiritual ego, which is the result of thought attachment, and in the greater sense, identity. Words are utilized for pointing, and words have definitions. In the (identity-less) parallel sense, these definitions are utilized in an agreed upon fashion. Spiritual ego, the ‘devilry’ therein, can not utilize words in this agreed upon, parallel, defined manor, and must essentially conceptualize, contextualize, and twice over recontextualize, to make it, ‘it’s own’.  Bubble, by definition is not sphere, by definition. 

“… and now here’s the weather”. 

[RMQualtrough]

3 hours ago, Salvijus said:

The tree and leaves example is how I understand "everything is one" or "only You exists" myself. There is one consciouness and bilions of characters who have the same consciouness.

But leo I think says something different. He says there are no different characters. You are all just images in my mind. Like in a dream. A hallusination of my mind basicly. I think he thinks we are all npc who will dissapear when he does mahasamadhi... which is a bit odd imo.

That was also the exact analogy which came to me intuitively after a stupid high dose psych combo with freebase DMT and acid.

DMT trips for me have followed Advaita Vedanta teachings to the letter. That is how I found all this to begin with.

The other ideas certainly never presented themselves, and some elements may well be drug induced schiz tier delusions in any case.

[Gregory1]

You can look at "others" that's how to know they exist. One day you will look at them and realize the truth... All that time you have been looking at yourself.

[BipolarGrowth]

6 hours ago, SQAAD said:

Right now I am 'having' my own bubble of Perception. How can i possibly know if Leo for example is having his own personal bubble of experience simultaneously? 

Personally i assume that at this moment there are billions of people each one of them having their own experiences. 

Leo denies the bubbles of others and claims his experience as the only one and Absolute (from what I have understood ) . But how can you ever find out if others are having their own independent experiences or not? 

This all seems like something you can never find out. 

It is imponderable. Your intuition is correct about that. You cannot know for certain if there are experiences outside of your own, but if you are of the same “what is actual is all that can be or is” school of thought as Leo, this naturally leads to the conclusion that there are no other bubbles. The statement that there are no other bubbles is true in the sense that what is actual (what can be directly experienced) will never contain multiple bubbles that are not at the same time part of the same one awareness. What this means is that you literally can have the experience of two human being (or even other being) sensory inputs at once (a number of people report such experiences), BUT for it to happen “at once” requires it by definition to be the same one awareness/field of awareness simply with seemingly split windows into reality which are actually the same thing as far as awareness is concerned.
 

You could experience the bubbles of every being throughout all time in the exact same moment, but it would in many ways be no different to having multiple nerve cells reporting information at once. The more complex entire bubbles of experience would just be more comprehensive data reporting mechanisms than just a nerve cell typically gives in your fingers for example. It shows in no way more than one awareness. As multiple awarenesses is not something possible due to the very mechanics of awareness itself, it’s safe to say there is no actual awareness other than your own. The mistake though is to think there is even a “you” having the awareness or the awareness is “your own”. It’s not just that others don’t have bubbles. You don’t have a bubble. There’s just “bubble” in which ego-you and others are fleeting/temporary sensations which will come to an end and be replaced with other fleeting sensations unless insert favorite deification of the Absolute here waves a magical wand and suddenly makes all beings currently existing immortal, which is a bit far fetched I’d have to say. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by BipolarGrowth

[BipolarGrowth]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

The spheres (thoughts about) are just like the rumination and the unicorn. To equate what is actual with delusion does not stand to clarify or bring about any understanding. It only misleads via thought attachment, followed by second and third person hearsay of conjecture, aiding in spreading it more deeply and broadly.

To recognize anything in experiential terms, it is helpful to label yet not per se to believe the label is indicative of any individual. In that sense spiritual ego is spiritual ego. Misleading is misleading. Conjecture is conjecture. Thought attachment is thought attachment, and regardless of any arising thought, it will remain actual, and what is actual can always be denied. 

‘Bubble(s)’ is inherently solipsistic spiritual ego, which is the result of thought attachment, and in the greater sense, identity. Words are utilized for pointing, and words have definitions. In the (identity-less) parallel sense, these definitions are utilized in an agreed upon fashion. Spiritual ego, the ‘devilry’ therein, can not utilize words in this agreed upon, parallel, defined manor, and must essentially conceptualize, contextualize, and twice over recontextualize, to make it, ‘it’s own’.  Bubble, by definition is not sphere, by definition. 

“… and now here’s the weather”. 

??❤️?? ? 
What’s the forecast? ?

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

That was also the exact analogy which came to me intuitively after a stupid high dose psych combo with freebase DMT and acid.

DMT trips for me have followed Advaita Vedanta teachings to the letter. That is how I found all this to begin with.

The other ideas certainly never presented themselves, and some elements may well be drug induced schiz tier delusions in any case.

Yea.. I think many people have similar experiences. I think sometimes people take psychs, experience intense visual distortions, when all people disappear into a mush of colors they then come to the conclusion that all people are imaginary objects the mind... but I really wonder what is the validity of that insight... I have a sense there can be many false insights on psychedelics also.

Thanks for your imput btw.

[The Lucid Dreamer]

4 hours ago, SQAAD said:

@The Lucid Dreamer

''My own''  bubble of experience exists though and i assume that ''you'' are having your own bubble of experience at this moment. 

Experience exists.  This “my own” business is a projection.  There is only consciousness and the phenomenon that arises within it.  This experience does not belong to anyone and it is not happening to anybody.

[Khan 0]

50 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

Experience exists.  This “my own” business is a projection.  There is only consciousness and the phenomenon that arises within it.  This experience does not belong to anyone and it is not happening to anybody.

Why? Knowledge of experience or experiencing comes from you. If there is nobody there is no experience. Because of that there is no such a thing as experience. 

[The Lucid Dreamer]

30 minutes ago, Khan 0 said:

Why? Knowledge of experience or experiencing comes from you. If there is nobody there is no experience. Because of that there is no such a thing as experience. 

Oof.  One of the first things you should understand if you’ve had even the slightest bit of an awakening is that there is no self and that your identity is an illusion.  This is like, Spirituality 101, my guy.  There are greater and lesser degrees of understanding this, but a more advanced understanding is that all there is is simply appearance happening within pure nothingness to no one, nowhere, no when, and no how. And any significance or meaning that is put on any of the appearances is pure imagination. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by The Lucid Dreamer

[Gregory1]

Look at them. They exist.

But now wonder... Who am I looking at?

[Khan 0]

50 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

Oof.  One of the first things you should understand if you’ve had even the slightest bit of an awakening is that there is no self and that your identity is an illusion.  This is like, Spirituality 101, my guy.  There are greater and lesser degrees of understanding this, but a more advanced understanding is that all there is is simply appearance happening within pure nothingness to no one, nowhere, no when, and no how. And any significance or meaning that is put on any of the appearances is pure imagination. 

Definitely.. therefore experiencing is just an illusion as just you or i. Because when you are nothing there is nothing to observe nor you nor i. Because of these you wrong about appearance happening within pure nothingness. Because nothing is happening. Any action any words comes from the ego as these sentences. Of course if you take these as sentences. Meanwhile, they are not. Any knowledge comes from the ego. Right Now is prior to birth. Thus, enlightenment is simply being where You already are. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Khan 0

[The Lucid Dreamer]

24 minutes ago, Khan 0 said:

Definitely.. therefore experiencing is just an illusion as just you or i. Because when you are nothing there is nothing to observe nor you nor i. 

“Nothing” is precisely what is before you now. 

[Khan 0]

4 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

“Nothing” is precisely what is before you now. 

Definitely. Nothing is real Me and real You. Therefore we are identical. Therefore there is no me and you or experience. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Khan 0

[OBEler]

4 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

You could experience the bubbles of every being throughout all time in the exact same moment, but it would in many ways be no different to having multiple nerve cells reporting information at once. The more complex entire bubbles of experience would just be more comprehensive data reporting mechanisms than just a nerve cell typically gives in your fingers for example. It shows in no way more than one awareness. As multiple awarenesses is not something possible due to the very mechanics of awareness itself, it’s safe to say there is no actual awareness other than your own. The mistake though is to think there is even a “you” having the awareness or the awareness is “your own”. It’s not just that others don’t have bubbles. You don’t have a bubble. There’s just “bubble” in which ego-you and others are fleeting/temporary sensations which will come to an end and be replaced with other fleeting sensations unless insert favorite deification of the Absolute here waves a magical wand and suddenly makes all beings currently existing immortal, which is a bit far fetched I’d have to say. 

Right now I as awareness experience my bubble. Do you mean the awareness right now can just experience my bubble and not yours, because there cannot be two awareness? This would mean if awareness wants to experience your bubble, my bubble needs to end? Like linear switching from one bubble to the next?

 

I dont get it, why cannot every bubble be contained in one awareness? So that this awareness experiences all bubbles simultaneously? Why it can just experience one bubble at this very moment

Edited January 2, 2022 by OBEler

[The Lucid Dreamer]

24 minutes ago, Khan 0 said:

Therefore there is no me and you or experience. 

There is appearance.  To deny this is to deny existence itself, which is pure foolishness.  Appearance and nothingness are not mutually exclusive.

[Khan 0]

4 minutes ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

There is appearance.  To deny this is to deny existence itself, which is pure foolishness.  Appearance and nothingness are not mutually exclusive.

From perspective of absolute it is the Truth unfortunately that there is no such a thing as existence and experience, me or you. And truth hurts the ego. I know. 

[The Lucid Dreamer]

6 minutes ago, Khan 0 said:

From perspective of absolute it is the Truth unfortunately that there is no such a thing as existence and experience, me or you. And truth hurts the ego. I know. 

Lol. 

[RMQualtrough]

58 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Right now I as awareness experience my bubble. Do you mean the awareness right now can just experience my bubble and not yours, because there cannot be two awareness? This would mean if awareness wants to experience your bubble, my bubble needs to end? Like linear switching from one bubble to the next?

I dont get it, why cannot every bubble be contained in one awareness? So that this awareness experiences all bubbles simultaneously? Why it can just experience one bubble at this very moment

The mechanism behind this needs to be explained... It might have something to do with the non-existence of time? Really I'm not sure.

Of course if space doesn't exist, every single awareness must be "here". So if you imagine seeing from another person's eyes, rather than trying to imagine a different awareness too or turning around your own 180 degrees in space - like third person. Understand it is exactly what you call I. That would be IT for every single living creature. It is THAT I you refer to in first person for everyone.

I is substantially nothing. Without content of form it would literally be nothing at all.

But you have this I, and how this dissociation happens I'm not entirely sure. It's like slices layered in the same exact location. Superimposed... But I don't get how this works, if that I is me I am literally seeing from your eyes if you have sight at all. I don't really get how this is happening.

[Inliytened1]

@RMQualtrough subject/ object is a duality.   An illusion.  Subject/object collapse into One.   You can call it pure Subjectivity or pure Being.

Your trying to understand reality through logic but you must turn within not outward.

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

@RMQualtrough subject/ object is a duality.   An illusion.  Subject/object collapse into One.   You can call it pure Subjectivity or pure Being.

Your trying to understand reality through logic but you must turn within not outward.

There is very little profound revelation in that collapse. It is literally just making obvious that all you know is the contents of mind, emptiness (your substantive nothingness), the subjectivity of everything, etc. There is something to be discovered within that but it's not like you just suddenly know everything like the answer to questions like that.

Some aspects of proclaimed "truth" could easily be pure delusional psychosis from drugs (or from any altered state).

Some things are DEFINITE. Beyond any question. Knowable. Then other things which are just psychosis or faith.