Torero died

[Thought Art]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's likely going to be exploitative because of the power differential.

Yeah if you’ve got 15 years experience being an adult and your going after a young adult with like 1-3 years of ‘adult’ sexual experience… it’s just not fair. Leave them to the younger brothers. 
 

Unless you can date her in a high conscious way. I’m sure this exists. 
 

However… do you want to date an immature girl? Really? She will likely leave you.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Thought Art

[Federico del pueblo]

Just read the article.

If some of the things stated in there are even just remotely true, then this is really fucked up behaviour (like having sex with 17 yo virgins and recording the audio to sell it online).

Though I do not know how much I can trust such an article. These writers tend to distort the facts to feed their narratives.

And it is kind of fucked up how these behaviours and the consequential articles ("dirty PUA exposed") can make you feel bad about learning seduction, like people might give you shit about talking to girls because you could be one of these criminal pick up artists.

[Thought Art]

19 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Just read the article.

If some of the things stated in there are even just remotely true, then this is really fucked up behaviour (like having sex with 17 yo virgins and recording the audio to sell it online).

Though I do not know how much I can trust such an article. These writers tend to distort the facts to feed their narratives.

And it is kind of fucked up how these behaviours and the consequential articles ("dirty PUA exposed") can make you feel bad about learning seduction, like people might give you shit about talking to girls because you could be one of these criminal pick up artists.

Simply don’t be a predator or record and sell sex online. Or anything else of that nature..

women want to meet you, and sleep with you. You just gotta bring the goods and be willing to be disappointed.

be out there being the guy she is glad she had a night with. Set a good example for your brothers.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Thought Art

[Cleopatra]

@Thought Art In my experience the men who don't care about how young a woman is usually have something up with them. 100% of the old men (I say old because a 35 year old man was old to 18 year old me) who approached me when I was 18-22 were either man-children with the maturity of a 10 year old boy, men in their 30s with dead end jobs and no ambition for life other than getting girls, entitled successful men who thought that every young woman would drop her pants for them because they have money, men who had low paying jobs and little money but had fancy stuff that only immature girls would be impressed by, married men looking for a side woman, religious fanatic men who thought they were entitled to more "innocent women". None of these men were normal, healthy men and you could tell from the first interaction with them. Luckily for me I had a relatively healthy upbringing and many healthy male figures in my life and could see though the fake love and "mature for your age" lies. At 26 I cringe thinking about how immature and clueless I was when younger so there was nothing I could have brought to the table for any of those men besides my body. What I regret is not telling them off instantly, I was young and thought I had to be nice when declining them. 

[Federico del pueblo]

7 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Simply don’t be a predator or record and sell sex online. Or anything else of that nature..

women want to meet you, and sleep with you. You just gotta bring the goods and be willing to be disappointed.

be out there being the guy she is glad she had a night with. Set a good example for your brothers.

I totally agree with everything.

And still on some level it bothers me that I can be associated with these psychopathic guys, for talking to girls.

I've heard female friends of mine say things like "maybe he was doing this pick up bullshit" because some guy approached us as a group (which was quite ballsy because we were a mixed group sitting at a table, a hard "set" so to speak).

Kinda sad that pick up has such a bad reputation because of some guys who take it to far, but I'll deal with it.

[Thought Art]

@Cleopatra Hmm, probably a safe idea to be polite when declining fools.

You listed a lot of what I believe to be true with these types of men. Many stereotypes for sure.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Kinda sad that pick up has such a bad reputation because of some guys who take it to far

It's gonna keep having that reputation for the foreseeable future.

The pursuit of sex is a not a high consciousness activity. Surprise, surprise!

The community is toxic in many ways. Which is why normies demonize it.

[Thought Art]

5 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

I totally agree with everything.

And still on some level it bothers me that I can be associated with these psychopathic guys, for talking to girls.

I've heard female friends of mine say things like "maybe he was doing this pick up bullshit" because some guy approached us as a group (which was quite ballsy because we were a mixed group sitting at a table, a hard "set" so to speak).

Kinda sad that pick up has such a bad reputation because of some guys who take it to far, but I'll deal with it.

Yeah, pick ups reputation is bad and will likely be that way for years to come. However, don't think of it solely as pickup I think. Instead see it as going out to have a really good time with people and to meet amazing beautiful women you find attractive. You have the skillset she is looking for and you use it. You two enjoy one another. Women are happy to meet you. 

@Leo Gura I agree to certain extent the the pursuit of sex is low conscious. However, I think there is a lot of high conscious stuff around sex... Especially with intimacy,  relationships, sacred/ tantric sex, etc. I actually think sex is a very high conscious activity if done properly. Especially in the larger context of a holistic life. Even pickup. 

I mean, sex is as a domain may be lower than say... God realization... But, within that domain there is a high ceiling.

Maybe, sexual energy is just so powerful... that most men when pursuing to use it have used it in a low conscious way and it's more a of a system problem than how it actually is.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Thought Art

[Federico del pueblo]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

The pursuit of sex is a not a high consciousness activity. Surprise, surprise!

True. And still I'd consider it to be even more low conscious if we denied our low consciousness desire for sex and stayed passive about it like the incels do.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

True. And still I'd consider it to be even more low conscious if we denied our low consciousness desire for sex and stayed passive about it like the incels do.

Yes, which is why the pickup community is more conscious than the incel community. The incel community is radioactively toxic.

[Thought Art]

@Federico del pueblo Not developing a high level of sexual/ relationship mastery is low conscious. 

I am gonna figure out a way to articulate this but I think I am starting to disagree that sex is low conscious and unspiritual. At least not as a blanket statement...

Maybe compared to other things.. But, it's so central to creation and ALL of life and it probably has deep powerful metaphysical implications that need to be contemplated.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

sex is low conscious and unspiritual

Sex doesn't have to be. But it usually is. And the blind pursuit of it is.

Most people have sex on a low material level.

[Thought Art]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Sex doesn't have to be. But it usually is. And the blind pursuit of it is.

Most people have sex on a low material level.

I think you mentioned recently, and I've been contemplating this a lot over the past year..

Each domain has a lot of nuanced, quality and potential depth to which you can go about it. I think any domain to a certain extent can be done in a high conscious and artful way. 

Hell, I've learned recently the blind pursuit of God realization is unhealthy... AND for me low conscious to in some ways. Because I didn't know about the  'art of gourd crafting' . 

Building your tower and foundation in the relative domain is incredibly complex, counter intuitive and interesting.

Really, each domain in live you should be consuming books, taking courses and getting lots of direct experience in it.

For a lot of things the social matrix if you take the path of least resistance just isn't enough...

Edited January 2, 2022 by Thought Art

[Hardkill]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Be careful, there is a dark side to pickup which is easy to get sucked into.

You have to be very careful not to get lost in pickup and the toxicity and ego that can come with it. The more successful you become the more ego develops around it.

What I don't get is that if PUA experts have achieved a lot of emotional mastery and learned how to always be super positive around others in order to get to the level they got with seducing women then why do some of them like that Tom Torero guy end up becoming so suicidal or dangerous narcissists?

Edited January 2, 2022 by Hardkill

[Thought Art]

2 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

What I don't get is that if PUA experts have achieved a lot of emotional mastery in order to get to the level they got with women then why do some of them like that Tom Torero guy end up becoming so suicidal or dangerous narcissists?

Because they are mastering an emotional skill set in a limited domain to manipulate reality for a selfish reason. It's very thin, limited and has nothing to do with the deeper foundational emotional mastery that protects against 'suicidal or dangerous narcissism'. There are many contexts, nuances, depths, areas, etc in emotional mastery that these PUAs just aren't even aware of or remotely interested in because they are operating a low level of consciousness. 

It's more a like a mask or a skill than real emotional mastery.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Thought Art

[Hardkill]

57 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Because they are mastering an emotional skill set in a limited domain to manipulate reality for a selfish reason. It's very thin, limited and has nothing to do with the deeper foundational emotional mastery that protects against 'suicidal or dangerous narcissism'. There are many contexts, nuances, depths, areas, etc in emotional mastery that these PUAs just aren't even aware of or remotely interested in because they are operating a low level of consciousness. 

It's more a like a mask or a skill than real emotional mastery.

So, why do pick up and dating coaches always say stuff like "if you have negative mindset about others then you will be projecting a very negative attitude towards others including women.....no woman wants to be around a guy who has a toxic vibe because it very repulsive and pathetic....women want a man who is a strong happy go luck guy that gives a lot of positive energy to others and is willing to give back to others. Women are in fact scared of men who are pathetic, weak, and keep sucking the life out of other like a leech or a vampire......”?

Edited January 2, 2022 by Hardkill

[Thought Art]

@Hardkill Figure it out yourself 

"Women want.."

Vs

Being

There is a difference between gaming, or knowing what works to attract others.. and how you actually are.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Thought Art

[hoodrow trillson]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It's likely going to be exploitative because of the power differential.

A 30+ year old man has enough life experience to manipulate the shit out of 21 year old girl in a relationship.

If a 30+ year old were to date a 21 year old, he would have to have very high integrity not to manipulate her. But most PUAs are manipulative and low-integrity people, so it's gonna lead to exploitation.

I completely agree with this.

But what if the 21 year old approaches the 30+ year old guy at a party?  And knows his age and shit and still wants to fuck?

 

[Loba]

Oh well, people live, people die, what are you gunna do?

[Thought Art]

1 minute ago, hoodrow trillson said:

I completely agree with this.

But what if the 21 year old approaches the 30+ year old guy at a party?  And knows his age and shit and still wants to fuck?

 

She's old enough to make that decision.

We aren't saying it's wrong. It's just the chance for the dynamic to be unhealthy is high.