Dr. Robert Malone visits Joe Rogan

[TheAlchemist]

Some reasons I noticed in myself for not wanting to watch the video (at least yet). These are probably also trends in the population at large, groups of people who are leaning towards skepticism of the vaccine will probably be more likely to excitedly devour this tyoe of content, and people who are more trusting in the vaccine will likely be much less likely to excitedly watch a video like that. So just to offer some perspective and possible reasons why me or someone like me might not be excited about content like this:

1)

I am concerned there could be a one sided agenda and a lack of nuance, since Joe has been entangled in drama around this and may want to soothe his emotions by bringing on reputable individuals that speak in a way that more matches his narrative. So there is a concern about the possible biases in this conversation just based on the context where it's happening. 

 

2)

Watching it might cause painful feelings of discomfort because of cognitive dissonance. My mind has put a ton of effort to build a kind of narrative around this whole thing. Who is trustable, what is happening, whats true etc. Things that might disturb that are easily resisted to avoid potential pain.

 

3)

I don't consider a conversation between people to be a solid source of information, since all kinds of rhetorical tactics are likely on the loose that will affect my mind. Be it for or against the vaccine. A conversation can be a good source of perspectives yes, but with this type of stuff, for making sense of the truth it's in the weaker end of sources. I think there are areas where science and goverments can be trusted more, and areas where they can be highly unreliable sources. I think the vaccine research is on solid ground in regard to that and goverment reactions are mostly well justified and understandable, although perhaps on a little bit more shakey ground than the research itself.  

 

I don't think reasons 1 and 2 are totally solid reasons for not watching the video since they are based on some assumptions and emotional reaction, but 3 might be good enough.

I might still watch it though, just offering some perspective that could aid in understanding where someone like me who is not as excited as you are about this alternative viewpoint might be coming from. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by TheAlchemist

[PurpleTree]

6 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:

I might still watch it though, just offering some perspective that could aid in understanding where someone like me who is not as excited as you are about this alternative viewpoint might be coming from. 

you don't have to watch the video

you can just download the podcast and listen to it when you're out and about

or just don't listen to it, do you, nobody cares

also nobody is "excited"

Edited January 2, 2022 by PurpleTree

[TheAlchemist]

3 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

also nobody is "excited"

Oh nice this went straight to nonduality! Love it 

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

If there's any real problem with the vaccines, it should obviously be pointed out, and not kept in the dark. The problem is, vaccines are currently our best tool for fighting any dissease. So, from a collective POV it's better to just take the vaccine, and worry about consequences later, rather than philophise about possible side effects, that 1 in 10000 people get (sarcastic estimation, obviously). We simply don't have time, human lives are at stake. And don't give me bullshit about natural immunity being better than taking vaccine. Imagine if everyone had that type of thinking during Spanish flu. Or about any other dissease.

I've been watching some of you guys for the past couple of weeks, and some of you are obviously on some type of anti vax crusade type of shit, and you quite desperately wanna prove your points, otherwise you would not pour so much of your energy and time into these debates. I see new topics almost every couple of days. You guys are a lot more emotional than you think, yet you think yall are speaking facts. Lol. And the guy that blocked 29 people, kinda proves my point.

Be aware of risks, but don't be a fool.

 

personally i'm not on a crusade, i'm also not an anti vaxxer

what i find funny/annoying about your pov for example is that you think you have the "truth" and others don't

[Arcangelo]

I am not excited, I am sad to see the direction the world is going.

JR: -"Tech clearly has a censorship agenda when it comes to COVID."

I agree 100%

Dr.: -"People should think for themselves."

I agree 100%

 

No discussions of the risks are allowed, because by definition it's promoting vaccine hesitancy, which is bullshit.

 

[Opo]

1 hour ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

29 people

It's 30 now bucko. 

[a7xKingz]

1 hour ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

If there's any real problem with the vaccines, it should obviously be pointed out, and not kept in the dark. The problem is, vaccines are currently our best tool for fighting any dissease. So, from a collective POV it's better to just take the vaccine, and worry about consequences later, rather than philophise about possible side effects, that 1 in 10000 people get (sarcastic estimation, obviously). We simply don't have time, human lives are at stake. And don't give me bullshit about natural immunity being better than taking vaccine. Imagine if everyone had that type of thinking during Spanish flu. Or about any other dissease.

I've been watching some of you guys for the past couple of weeks, and some of you are obviously on some type of anti vax crusade type of shit, and you quite desperately wanna prove your points, otherwise you would not pour so much of your energy and time into these debates. I see new topics almost every couple of days. You guys are a lot more emotional than you think, yet you think yall are speaking facts. Lol. And the guy that blocked 29 people, kinda proves my point.

Be aware of risks, but don't be a fool.

 

So someone's a fool if they disagree with you ?

This is part of the problem. Science doesn't care about your ego, in the end this is about data.

Either the data supports what you do or it doesn't.

I didn't take the vaccine for the following reasons:

1. Awful safety data

Check: https://openvaers.com/covid-data

Also, you can cross check information with adverse reporting systems from other countries, for example, the Yellow Card in the UK.

The data is horrendous all throughout

2. The vaccine offers a very specific targeted immunity. If there is a specific mutation that evades this immunity I would be toast and likely wouldn't even know about it.

3. We have repurposed drugs that work to prevent and treat this disease.

See:

C19early.com and read through the studies.

Please, educate yourself and respect other people's choices. I don't call you a fool for taking the vaccine, it's your body and it's your choice in the end.

[Arcangelo]

@a7xKingz Welcome to the forum.

I am not taking it as a form of protest against the vaccine mandates.

I am actually provaxxer, but anti-mandate.

Since I am so incredibly healthy, I can afford the risk of fighting COVID on my own.

23 minutes ago, a7xKingz said:

Please, educate yourself and respect other people's choices. I don't call you a fool for taking the vaccine, it's your body and it's your choice in the end.

Amen brother.

[Salvijus]

I mean yeah, there will be many antivaxers who will use that kind of content to justify all conspiracy theories nonsense in their heads but still the information in the video was very credible and high quality imo. That Malone is not a typical antivaxer, he is really coming from a genuine scientific big picture understanding and concern of what make sense and what doesn't, at least that's what I've noticed. It did open my eyes a little bit on the matter. Tho my opinion remained pretty much the same after watching the video. Which is, "what the fuck is happening, ehh.. who cares"

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

Anti-antivaxers, is that a new thing? ?

[Opo]

6 hours ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Cringe

Sry. 

Don't be too harsh on me. 

[Barbara]

People on this thread trying to ridicule are only making themselves look ridiculous.

Remind me of this lady, min 1:16

 

What you're trying to ridicule is dialogue, questioning, communication, open-mindedness, and discussions. It doesn't matter what side you're on, but how did you get there. How did you come to believe in what you believe? 
In all of this covid story, is really not about science most of the time. It's about who you trust and believe. Because you don't know what is true or false, you haven't run the scientific studies yourself, you don't know the people who did, you don't know their agendas, you don't know if there's a communication error or if the report that comes out isn't well done, words can be tricky. And if you are to question all of this, there's no way you will ever be able to make a decision. So it's about who you trust. 
And would you rather trust in one person or source, that always deliver the same type of information, or listen to many different people and sources, with different opinions, that follow different types of narratives, and in the midst of all hopefully trying to make your own mind?
Of course, listening to many different things is way more trustable. Especially because this forces your brain to work. Hearing dissimilar or even contradictory information will cultivate healthy questioning and proactiveness in finding more info. It will make you go out there and seek the soundest information. While, when you exclusively hear the same thing, over and over, with different words, but the same message, not only this will hypnotize you, but there will be simply no space or knowledge that makes you question what you hear. 
Whether you get your information from WHO, CDC, Facebook groups, EMA, CNN, Youtube videos, Joe Rogan podcast. It's all the same when you refuse to hear the other side, as much as your arrogance makes you think your source is better than all the others.
So anti-vaxxers think that they're so above everyone else, cause they have found the unsettling truth, that no one else is ready to hear. 
Pro vaxxers think they're so above everyone else because they don't fall for crazy conspiracies and irrational beliefs. 
Well, both might be the same, only babbling different words and messages. 
The only way to escape this dichotomy is to drop off irreducible conclusions and judgments, pursue the discomfort of genuinely not knowing, be open-minded and seek answers for yourself. 
This polarization in society is a product of a lack of empathy and compassion for others. If you put yourself in the skin of people that think differently from you, is not a complex insight to have, that maybe both of you are the same, and what might eventually distinguish you is the process and structure of thought and not so much the thought itself.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Barbara

[Arcangelo]

^Mic drops.

[Barbara]

@Knowledge Hoarder With all due respect, if that's what you took from what I wrote, read again.

[Barbara]

1 minute ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

but we as a collective

What do you mean? How would this be attained?

[Barbara]

Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about the vaccines there. But forgetting vaccines for a moment, do you think that one should always do what's best for the collective body?

49 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Do you see any other alternative to a vaccine, which can prevent and possibly eradicate Covid?

I do think about this very much. I'm reticent about sharing my opinion tho. But are you familiar with what Dr. Peter McCullough says about this respect? I think his views are the best answer to the questions you're asking. 

[Barbara]

30 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

That was maybe an unnecessarily long winded answer, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say

Oh absolutely. It wasn't unnecessary at all. I think that's a very interesting take on the developmental level of society vs the individual. In a practical sense tho, how would you apply this? Because different individuals are at different levels. When would it be ok for individualism to overtake collectivism or the other way around?
In a way, what you said is what social contract is about. The individual validates government as long as it serves their interests. But this makes me rethink and question hierarchies, as for me, in this particular moment, with this pandemic, it feels imprisoning to be subjugated to measures that I don't agree on. While feeling that both reasoning behind our decision, mine, and the government, although different, is as legitimate. So I feel I should be able to make my decision count, because I don't perceive that the rulers are making any more sense than I am.

Dr. Peter McCullough points out the fact that there was never any other covid solution presented to society other than the vaccines, even tho he himself believes (with strict scientific support) that there is and always were. 

Vaccines for viruses present the problem of getting easily outdated because of the mutations that viruses naturally suffer. I'm not suggesting this happened for this virus in particular. But the change in plans does not make me feel safe. The predictions for covid vaccine effects were different than what ended up happening. I.e the vaccines were designed to be 2 doses only (except Johnson & Johnson's, 1 take). We were supposed to attain herd immunity to some point, which never happened, although in many countries, the vaccination percentages surpass the numbers talked. Also, a lot of political entities spread misinformation in the beginning, regarding the vaccine effectiveness in reducing (and even annihilating) the possibility of getting covid. That also never was the case, but unfortunately, the message passed, and there are a lot of people who took the vaccine with a certain expectation. Those are the examples on the top of my mind. Please notice, these are not so much my opinions, but facts.

I didn't understand your last question tho, regarding the various new drugs.

[Porphyry Fedotov]

On 1/1/2022 at 10:17 AM, Raze said:

I think joe is being very reckless having this guy as well as Mcullough on. I’d be more interested in a debate between one of them and a doctor representing the mainstream view.

He has been reckless that way since the whole ivermectin story, it seems personal now. As for Mcullough, Joe has been having questionable guests for ages now. However it isn't the wisest thing to do in the midst of the COVID epidemic, like the last adequate guy he had over was Sanjay Gupta and we all know how it went down. By the way, I noticed a similar trend with Russel Brand. He also became very paranoid about vaccines related stuff.

[hoodrow trillson]

7 hours ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

He has been reckless that way since the whole ivermectin story, it seems personal now. As for Mcullough, Joe has been having questionable guests for ages now. However it isn't the wisest thing to do in the midst of the COVID epidemic, like the last adequate guy he had over was Sanjay Gupta and we all know how it went down. By the way, I noticed a similar trend with Russel Brand. He also became very paranoid about vaccines related stuff.

The pandemic has aged Joe Rogan’s brain by 20 years it’s so hard to watch

[Danioover9000]

@Porphyry Fedotov

8 hours ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

He has been reckless that way since the whole ivermectin story, it seems personal now. As for Mcullough, Joe has been having questionable guests for ages now. However it isn't the wisest thing to do in the midst of the COVID epidemic, like the last adequate guy he had over was Sanjay Gupta and we all know how it went down. By the way, I noticed a similar trend with Russel Brand. He also became very paranoid about vaccines related stuff.

   It seems there's a growing trend with some podcasts like Joe Rogan, Infinity waters, and Russel Brand being slightly against vaccine side effects. I don't know if orher podcasts are getting to be like this, or are leaning to pro vaccines, but for the majority of it being coincidental and merely the trend, a small aspect of it might be those that have experienced side effects.