What is the quality of the beliefs?

[Vido]

Is beliefs just thoughts? Or emotions or something completely different? I understand that it is a bias. But what is the quality of the bias. How do I find into its nature experientially?

 

[tsuki]

I'd say that beliefs are a class of thoughts that are taken to be true, without consideration, and acted upon with conviction. When inspected, it usually turns out that you don't really know something, but you act as if you do.

Some beliefs are surface-level, like when you go to the other room for the glasses you left on a table (but you don't really know where you left them). They can also be very deep, about existence itself, where you don't even have the right vocabulary to ask the question about them, and can't even imagine how the world would look like if you didn't assume them. 

If you directly want to experience a belief, take any intellectual incongruity or conflict within your experience, and start asking questions from your direct experience. For example, we usually think that there are things that we do see, and that there are things we don't see. When I believed this, I used to imagine that my field of view ends with blackness similar to the one I experience when I close my eyes. Now go ahead and see whether your field of view has any end, using your peripheral vision. Is there a line dividing what you see, and what you don't see? Are there really, in your direct experience, things you don't see? You can obviously "move your head", and "notice" the things that are there, but this is not what I am asking. 

Do this, ponder whether things that are not experienced exist, until you have a clear answer. Until you have no doubts about it and see how your experience changes. This is how you know that you gave up on a belief.

Some beliefs turn out to be true, in the sense that you can agree with what you were thinking, but your thinking about the subject is now much more nuanced and deeper. A relationship now exists. It's like when we learn math in grade school. There are kids that learn how to solve specific exercises, and there are kids that actually "get it". They exhibit a kind of creativity and flexibility that other kids don't.

[Mosess]

the quality of beliefs is quality

the quality of a belief is how much quality you say it holds

If a belief is high quality, then it is a high quality belief, if it is low quality, then it is a low quality belief

The person who says whether it is a high quality or low quality belief is no one other than you.

we usually have forces that distort our natural independent way of thinking, to enforce beliefs that are low quality instead of letting go of them and taking on higher quality beliefs but ONLY IN RELATION to an other belief don't you see.

There can't be a high quality belief if there isn't a low quality belief accompanied with it. Its a package that comes together, this one is good because that one, pffff, that one was fucking horrible. This one, i like. 

This conflict, is the creation of the notion "beliefs".

High and low quality, is a creation that is purely subjective and made of your own choosing,

"is beliefs just thoughts?" is a thought,

you want an answer i know. 

I am pointing to you that the the question itself is a thought, enforced by an emotion, which you are identified with and therefore anything i say that threatens any of this will just cause more conflict, or subconsciously scare the shit out of you, which is my goal.

Beliefs are as unreal as the wibwabble i have just wrote.

What is real, is what is next,

not a distance

What is the 0.00000001 next future second, and in relation to THAT, the next  0.00000001. 

That is real

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Mosess

[Thought Art]

5 hours ago, Vido said:

Is beliefs just thoughts? Or emotions or something completely different? I understand that it is a bias. But what is the quality of the bias. How do I find into its nature experientially?

 

Observe and contemplate it in real time

[Tim R]

2 hours ago, Mosess said:

the quality of beliefs is quality

@Mosess The "quality of beliefs" is belief...(?)

[Nahm]

5 hours ago, Vido said:

I understand that it is a bias.

How so?

[Thought Art]

23 minutes ago, Tim R said:

@Mosess The "quality of beliefs" is belief...(?)

I read that too lol 

circle ⭕️ 
 

I mean, there is a belief that you have about the quality of beliefs so, maybes that is a meta point or something 

[NoSelfSelf]

Belief is a function in every human being just like a focus, if you focus on your legs thats what your experience will be, like with belief(there are beliefs in your subconcious that run your behaviour tho and believed automaticlly) and function of believing, like you have thoughts my cat is on fire and if you dont believe in it it wont become your experience if you do however ,even tho your cat is not on fire you will feel like it is...

[Mosess]

2 hours ago, Tim R said:

@Mosess The "quality of beliefs" is belief...(?)

different phrasing of the same words will produce the same meaning in the end haha

The more you believe in a "quality of a belief" , the more the belief appears to be of importance to you

5 hours ago, Mosess said:

the quality of a belief is how much quality you say it holds

you choose one, the other automatically comes. You can't have one without the other: beliefs and quality.

 If i believe in god, then i choose how much i benefit from that belief. I could benefit a ton, then i will call it a high quality belief, anything that threatens that belief will be a threat to the benefits that i obtain from it, and , in milliseconds, defense responses will become automatically activated to prevent that from happening.

I could not be benefiting at all, infact, it could be damaging me and bringing me alot of fuckups in my life. I could be aware of the belief, and the fuckups it brings me, (which is another way of saying: i could be aware that it is a low quality belief), but still not want to let go of it.

Why would you believe in something that is causing damage to you in return?

Because you were told to believe in it.

Or worse, you were told of the consequences of not believing in it,

which is the belief defending itself in plain site. 

 

Beliefs are notions that bring benefits to you, in any way. Usually they are automatically there, and are "known" to deliver benefits to you. 

The problem here is that something that is automatically placed in you can not be "known" to deliver benefits to you. 

You need to take it out, see it for yourself, and decide if you want to manually put it back in or not depending on what you saw.

For example, 2 years ago, i was a muslim. I believed in an eternal hell, heaven, and a god that is external from reality. this was all automatically placed in me, and was "known" to deliver benefits to me, and people around me.

I had to question my self, the people around me, and the belief itself, to completely break through all the defenses, and look at it from an objective point of view, where only the i could decide if i wanted to place it back or not because i am completely aware of where "i" stand, where "people" stand, where the "belief" stands and what good/bad qualities it delivers in relation to "me" and "others".

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Mosess

[Mason Riggle]

I always like what Sam Harris had to say about 'Belief'. 

 

“A belief is a lever that, once pulled, moves almost everything in a person’s life. Are you a scientist? A liberal? A racist? These are merely species of belief in action. Your beliefs define your vision of the world; they dictate your behavior; they determine your emotional responses to other human beings. If you doubt this, consider how your experience would suddenly change if you came to believe one of the following propositions:

1. You have only two weeks to live.
2. You've just won the lottery prize of one hundred million dollars.
3. Aliens have implanted a receiver in your skull and are manipulating your thoughts.

These are mere words- until you believe them. once believed, they become part of the very apparatus of your mind, determining your desires, fears, expectations, and subsequent behavior.”

[Khan 0]

8 hours ago, Vido said:

Is beliefs just thoughts? Or emotions or something completely different? I understand that it is a bias. But what is the quality of the bias. How do I find into its nature experientially?

 

Belief is a belief itself. How is a thought itself. Thought is a belief and belief is a thought itself. 

[Tim R]

2 hours ago, Mason Riggle said:

“A belief is a lever that, once pulled, moves almost everything in a person’s life. Are you a scientist? A liberal? A racist? These are merely species of belief in action. Your beliefs define your vision of the world; they dictate your behavior; they determine your emotional responses to other human beings. If you doubt this, consider how your experience would suddenly change if you came to believe one of the following propositions:

1. You have only two weeks to live.
2. You've just won the lottery prize of one hundred million dollars.
3. Aliens have implanted a receiver in your skull and are manipulating your thoughts.

These are mere words- until you believe them. once believed, they become part of the very apparatus of your mind, determining your desires, fears, expectations, and subsequent behavior.”

That's a pretty striking analogy, thank you for sharing. Beliefs are frighteningly pwoerful...

I guess if belief dictates action, then I could look at my action and extrapolate, at least to some degree, what I believe. 

[Mason Riggle]

2 minutes ago, Tim R said:

I guess if belief dictates action, then I could look at my action and extrapolate, at least to some degree, what I believe. 

For sure.  And this is why people's actions will tell you more about their intentions than their words.  

I can't remember where I heard this.. but I recall this notion of 'finding out what you really want' by paying attention to your actions.  If you want something, you find a way, if you don't, you find an excuse.  So if you find yourself making excuses for why you can't do something, chances are you just don't want to do that thing.  

[Batman]

Belief is a formulation of thought, which is an activity of mind. A belief is a conceptual replacement for the truth. Belief is about holding something as truth, without it being the case. Belief, by it's nature and purpose cannot be the truth. 

Belief comes in the place of becoming conscious of the truth. You can either believe some thing to be true, or you can become conscious of it. This is also why belief is extremely dangerous. It is blocking you from becoming conscious of what the truth really is. This is also why religions has failed miserably throughout ages, and will continue to fail. 

[WelcometoReality]

On 2021-12-31 at 8:12 AM, Vido said:

Is beliefs just thoughts?

It's thoughts which you hold as being true.

On 2021-12-31 at 8:12 AM, Vido said:

Or emotions or something completely different? I

There is an emotional component as well. If the belief is questioned there might be anger or fear for example. You've probably experienced this in a heated argument with someone. 

On 2021-12-31 at 8:12 AM, Vido said:

But what is the quality of the bias. How do I find into its nature experientially?

Question the thought. Is it actually true?